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babylonsister

(171,042 posts)
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 10:59 AM Oct 2021

Josh Marshall: The Most Damning Jan 6th Revelation Yet

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-most-damning-jan-6th-revelation-yet

The Most Damning Jan 6th Revelation Yet
New Emails Show Trump and Eastman Saw the Insurrectionists as the Foot Soldiers of the Coup. They Cheered Them on and Used Them in Real Time.
By Josh Marshall
October 30, 2021 11:58 a.m.

snip//

The Post has emails – presumably emerging out of the committee investigation – of what happened during the insurrection. As the insurrectionists were storming the Capitol and Pence was holed up in a secure location as they hunted for him and members of Congress, Eastman emailed Pence and his top aide saying that the insurrection was Pence’s fault for not going through with the coup plot. With the President’s supporters ransacking the Capitol Eastman demanded Pence shift course and do the right thing.

These exchanges capture something we suspect and know in some way. But here we’re getting the details, the documentary evidence. Eastman didn’t recoil when the President’s rally escalated to violence. He clearly saw the inside coup plot and the insurrectionists on the street as part of the same effort. This isn’t surprising to most of us. The insurrectionists were laying siege to Pence in the Capitol because Pence wasn’t going along with the plan. And the answer was to go along with the plan. Eastman recognized the insurrection as the paramilitary wing of the coup plot he was part of and as the Capitol was under siege used it as a cudgel to force Pence’s hand.

Again, this won’t come to a shock to many of us. But here we’re getting the receipts. At least the first of them. To date the actions of Eastman, the President, his various coconspirators – during the hours of the assault on the Capitol – have largely been a black box even as we’ve learned more and more granular detail of the ransacking of the Capitol itself. We’ve had brief glimpses in reported accounts. There was the notorious phone call between Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Trump in which McCarthy demanded Trump call off his insurrectionists. Trump notoriously responded, “Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are.”

In real time, Trump’s message was the same as Eastman’s. You brought it on yourself and they’re my guys. The way to lift the siege is to do the right thing and support the coup. They both recognized the insurrectionists as their foot soldiers and expressed as much in real time to the members of Congress under siege. And of course they did since they were their foot soldiers.

It’s hardly surprising that both Trump and Eastman were cheering on the assault on the Capitol in real time or seeing it in the same terms. They were part of the same war room. They were leading it. Directly or indirectly McCarthy was the source of those quotes from the conversation with the President. It was reportedly anger and expletive filled. Of course he later fell in line. Much of the resistance to the investigation was his effort not to be placed under oath to reveal what happened on that day and the fact that he resisted it.

These are only two glimpses of the real story of January 6th. The Committee seems serious about getting the whole story.
72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Josh Marshall: The Most Damning Jan 6th Revelation Yet (Original Post) babylonsister Oct 2021 OP
Trump & Eastman to Pence, "The way to lift the siege is to do the right thing and support the coup." Botany Oct 2021 #1
I second. planetc Oct 2021 #3
THIS malaise Oct 2021 #4
You're darned right he does! Chains for both of them. PatrickforB Oct 2021 #6
M$Greedia really needs to call these traitors what they are malaise Oct 2021 #13
So true. The corporate media seems disappointed the fascist insurrection didn't pan out. Alexander Of Assyria Oct 2021 #24
+1,000 malaise Oct 2021 #28
It would save them a lot of time, money, and trouble EYESORE 9001 Nov 2021 #70
Barr and Pompeo are Dominionists. Grasswire2 Oct 2021 #53
Dominionists are terrifying. ShazzieB Oct 2021 #60
Yup! Eom LittleGirl Oct 2021 #15
🤜🤛 Traildogbob Oct 2021 #19
Agree with everything except the lengthy imprisonment part jmowreader Oct 2021 #23
Truth. Delphinus Oct 2021 #32
the Rosenberg remedy. Grasswire2 Oct 2021 #54
If they are dead I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2021 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Oct 2021 #66
I have the perfect place jmowreader Nov 2021 #68
Well said. And Garland is so strong warrants will be issued in a few hours... Justice matters. Oct 2021 #31
Exactly! ...nt 2naSalit Oct 2021 #47
So the foot soldiers were leveredge to wnylib Oct 2021 #58
The unrepentant criminal and his thugs gademocrat7 Oct 2021 #2
As we get closer and closer to the top you wonder what will happen. plimsoll Oct 2021 #5
Democracy's future is riding on a whole lotta "hope" FoxNewsSucks Oct 2021 #36
Think of what a hell hole this country would be right now if these assholes had succeeded Ohioboy Oct 2021 #7
"Think of the hell hole it will eventually be if we don't prosecute and convict them." Botany Oct 2021 #9
Absolutely correct MiHale Oct 2021 #25
THIS KPN Oct 2021 #18
Ohio, DENVERPOPS Oct 2021 #59
Unfortunately... RevBrotherThomas Nov 2021 #72
I think back to the early 19th, late 18th century.... paleotn Oct 2021 #8
We hung all the people that helped John Wilkes Booth in less then 3 months after Lincoln .... Botany Oct 2021 #52
Progress better be made before 1/1/23 oldsoftie Oct 2021 #10
This should not have to go through the select committee, gab13by13 Oct 2021 #11
Maybe they are sending it? Maybe the two are KPN Oct 2021 #20
I'll believe it when I see it. Sorry, I am just not confident. HUAJIAO Oct 2021 #46
Garland needs to prosecute or get off the pot. Girard442 Oct 2021 #12
He does need to receive the evidence first and the Select malaise Oct 2021 #14
Bush's Grandpa Didn't Go To Jail DanieRains Oct 2021 #16
Right! RVN VET71 Oct 2021 #34
We need to be prepared for right wing violence when the indictments come. hadEnuf Oct 2021 #43
I live in a fairly anti-fascist safe zone RVN VET71 Nov 2021 #71
And trump Traildogbob Oct 2021 #17
I'm sure there is some reluctance to prosecute a former president Bayard Oct 2021 #21
"not going through with the coup plot" bucolic_frolic Oct 2021 #22
I'm vaguely impressed with Pence for not giving in. yardwork Oct 2021 #26
It was Dan Quayle who convinced him he had no power to do what they asked of him. Grasswire2 Oct 2021 #55
Who would have guessed? yardwork Oct 2021 #57
A need to stop the whats taking so long for the DOJ to act whining. Alexander Of Assyria Oct 2021 #27
they seemed to think the old smoke filled rooms were still a thing. mopinko Oct 2021 #29
Orders had to come from the very top... MiHale Oct 2021 #30
This really clarifies why Trump didn't call off his troops earlier. halfulglas Oct 2021 #33
They tried to turn the chaos and violence to their advantage, instead of Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #35
Is Garland delaying things to put the SOB in jail? That is what I am afraid of, Muller was a Escurumbele Oct 2021 #39
Yep, if they get away with this, they'll get away with whatever is coming in the future. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #42
They built the lynch mod and sent it to kill congress. They expected far worse violence. Ford_Prefect Oct 2021 #45
One thing that is not being talked about enough is the fact that they had prepared transportation Escurumbele Oct 2021 #37
The same people who rented the busses managed their distribution on the day. Ford_Prefect Oct 2021 #48
Fascists won. Republican/Nazis will never suffer justice. johnthewoodworker Oct 2021 #38
Federal law against insurrection vlyons Oct 2021 #40
So Was This A Topic On Meet The Press Today? DallasNE Oct 2021 #41
How many young American lives have been lost in wars to "SAVE OUR COUNTRY OUR WAY OF LIFE"? usaf-vet Oct 2021 #44
The Republican evil plot against the USA is political raw sewage Champp Oct 2021 #49
The WORLD is watching us - they need to see how we handle it FakeNoose Oct 2021 #50
Eastman needs to be disbarred and prosecuted LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2021 #51
Lock these people up mr. garland RANDYWILDMAN Oct 2021 #56
Question, can't someone be arrested for a crime kacekwl Oct 2021 #61
Funny thing is that their messiah jimlup Oct 2021 #62
I'm perplexed - but ultimately relieved, of course - that the insurrectionists... BobTheSubgenius Oct 2021 #63
Link to the WaPo article, no paywall.... reACTIONary Oct 2021 #65
These are serious crimes. If you or I did this... lees1975 Oct 2021 #67
K&R spanone Nov 2021 #69

Botany

(70,476 posts)
1. Trump & Eastman to Pence, "The way to lift the siege is to do the right thing and support the coup."
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:31 AM
Oct 2021

Lock 'em both up right fucking now. A violent coup to overthrow our democracy by low IQ meth head
racist bikers, along with active and retired police, fire fighters, and military personal, helped along by
members of Congress, and the likes of Fox News & Russia should result in indictments, arrests, fair
and public trials, and lengthy imprisonment if the parties are convicted. Failure to do so will tell these
goons it is OK to try that crap again.

PatrickforB

(14,566 posts)
6. You're darned right he does! Chains for both of them.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:48 AM
Oct 2021

F-ing traitors.

Now we're seeing the same crazies back at the school board level on off-year elections. We have to fight, fight, fight at all levels against these people.

Have you heard of 'dominionists?' These people are every bit as bad as any Taliban ever was.

EYESORE 9001

(25,914 posts)
70. It would save them a lot of time, money, and trouble
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 07:32 AM
Nov 2021

They could fire all their reporters and replace them with temp workers - stenographers who copy & paste the stories that the junta deems newsworthy.

Traildogbob

(8,703 posts)
19. 🤜🤛
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:15 PM
Oct 2021

You hit all the nails on the head. Yet they are all partying at the World Series to cheers.

jmowreader

(50,543 posts)
23. Agree with everything except the lengthy imprisonment part
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:28 PM
Oct 2021

This fits the textbook definition of treason, and for that the only suitable punishment is the firing squad.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,462 posts)
64. If they are dead
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 08:10 PM
Oct 2021

They can't stir up another insurrection.
They can't poison democracy anymore with thier words. There is a reason death was the penalty for treason.Death ends the coup creators forever. Eliminate the leader of the cult most culties wake up. Because when trump is dead for treason they will realize shit just got too real and the cosplay is over.

Response to jmowreader (Reply #23)

jmowreader

(50,543 posts)
68. I have the perfect place
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 12:20 AM
Nov 2021

The Arlington Memorial Bridge runs between Arlington National Cemetery and the Lincoln Memorial.

Now for the big question: who gets hanged besides the Trump family and anyone in Congress who was live-tweeting to the insurrectionists?

Justice matters.

(6,925 posts)
31. Well said. And Garland is so strong warrants will be issued in a few hours...
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:38 PM
Oct 2021
... almost 11 months since these crimes were committed in.our.faces.

wnylib

(21,417 posts)
58. So the foot soldiers were leveredge to
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 05:10 PM
Oct 2021

intimidate Congress into reversing the election results.

plimsoll

(1,668 posts)
5. As we get closer and closer to the top you wonder what will happen.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:44 AM
Oct 2021

All those folks that got light sentences may be called to testify against people who helped organize. Failing to testify, or offering different testimony puts them in prison for violating the terms of the agreement or perjury. I hope that's what's going on, but we won't know for some time.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,428 posts)
36. Democracy's future is riding on a whole lotta "hope"
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:02 PM
Oct 2021

Scares the fuck out of me. All we're told is "hope" and 'be patient".

Ohioboy

(3,240 posts)
7. Think of what a hell hole this country would be right now if these assholes had succeeded
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:50 AM
Oct 2021

Think of the hell hole it will eventually be if we don't prosecute and convict them.

DENVERPOPS

(8,802 posts)
59. Ohio,
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 05:11 PM
Oct 2021

Truer words were never spoken about the last Five+ years, culminating in January 6th.

The Wash Post just published an incredibly huge amount of info, about the entire before, during and after of Jan 6th.

It should frighten every last true American to their bones. Just how close we came, as you said, and just how close we are presently to the Coup taking place..........we are one millimeter away from a CORPORATE FASCIST TYRANNY.......

Katie Bar The Door, WASF.......

RevBrotherThomas

(838 posts)
72. Unfortunately...
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 01:00 PM
Nov 2021

The jury is still out if they succeeded or not. This trump's long game has always been destroying trust in the system; January 6th, 2021 was one aspect of that. There's more coming.

The republic is in real danger.

paleotn

(17,901 posts)
8. I think back to the early 19th, late 18th century....
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:53 AM
Oct 2021

If someone tried to pull that shit, they would be quickly tried, convicted and hung. Barbaric, yes, but it sure would have sent a message.

Botany

(70,476 posts)
52. We hung all the people that helped John Wilkes Booth in less then 3 months after Lincoln ....
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 04:23 PM
Oct 2021

... was murdered.



They were looking for Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence to kill them to stop the orderly transition of
the Presidency.

oldsoftie

(12,514 posts)
10. Progress better be made before 1/1/23
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:56 AM
Oct 2021

Because its likely that AFTER that date everything would be shut down & done away with

gab13by13

(21,280 posts)
11. This should not have to go through the select committee,
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 11:58 AM
Oct 2021

DOJ should be all over Eastman, yesterday. We need Garland to act.

Why can't the select committee just send the information we have on Eastman to the FBI? Bypass Garland and the select committee.

RVN VET71

(2,690 posts)
34. Right!
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:52 PM
Oct 2021

FDR was skittish about retaliating for the attempt to throw him out of office and institute a fascist-plutocratic dictatorship to run the country and its remove all constutional protections from its citizen. General Smedley Butler, 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor winner (who turned down additional efforts to give him additional CMH medals!) spilled the beans before Congress, but FDR prevented any action against the traitors — including Morgan, du Pont and Bush — for fear of rousing angry fascist mobs, the drooling MAGA morons of the day.

I hope and pray that the current Dems aren’t of the same mind as was FDR.

hadEnuf

(2,183 posts)
43. We need to be prepared for right wing violence when the indictments come.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:19 PM
Oct 2021

I think it's almost a garentee. And we should be looking at the local levels as well. They can get more allies at the local level such as police and lawmakers and of course, MAGATs.

Be prepared to protect yourself.

RVN VET71

(2,690 posts)
71. I live in a fairly anti-fascist safe zone
Mon Nov 1, 2021, 08:41 AM
Nov 2021

But an adjacent county has a police force that would have done the Nazi storm troopers proud. Here, tge cops are — seriously — friendly, decent men and women. There, they’ve sicced their dogs on homeless vagrants, killed “speeders” and, generally, beat the hell out of people, especially black people, they bust.

Traildogbob

(8,703 posts)
17. And trump
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:13 PM
Oct 2021

Is applauded at the World Series as a hero. With his shit grin and his arm Ho. How many insurrectionist soldiers were released from jail to go see their their savior?

Bayard

(22,035 posts)
21. I'm sure there is some reluctance to prosecute a former president
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:24 PM
Oct 2021

Even though his crimes happened while in office. But we've also never had a president like this before: impeached twice, big time grifter, conducting crimes against humanity, constantly inciting insurrection, pushing for the overthrow of democracy.

He's a proven criminal, and should be treated as such.

bucolic_frolic

(43,111 posts)
22. "not going through with the coup plot"
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:27 PM
Oct 2021

I'm thinking he didn't even have to use those exact words. 'the plan' or 'goal' was good enough.

If they're caught red-handed the US government needs to make a BFD of this, because it is a BFD. It's beyond seditious, it's beyond sedition. It's active. It's an operation. It's an operation being directed to overthrow the United States government.

A BFD. A very BFD.

yardwork

(61,585 posts)
26. I'm vaguely impressed with Pence for not giving in.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:31 PM
Oct 2021

As president Pence would bring us the literal Handmaid's Tale so I hope he's never president, but I honestly didn't think he had it in him to say no to Trump. He's probably a little brighter than he looks, which is dangerous.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
27. A need to stop the whats taking so long for the DOJ to act whining.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:34 PM
Oct 2021

The devil is in the details in major criminal investigations…but we all know who the devils are, what they wanted, and imprecisely how they attempted the sedition..they will not escape justice when the details are proven with precision…justice is coming albeit as slowly as justice always does.

mopinko

(70,067 posts)
29. they seemed to think the old smoke filled rooms were still a thing.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:36 PM
Oct 2021

left a digital trail stevie wonder could follow.

idiots.

MiHale

(9,712 posts)
30. Orders had to come from the very top...
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:37 PM
Oct 2021

When the insurrection first begun I don’t believe Pence was on the “list of things to do”. Then after refusal he was, quickly. No proof it’s just my belief.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
33. This really clarifies why Trump didn't call off his troops earlier.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:49 PM
Oct 2021

He didn't really give a F what happened to any of the rabble, only when the coup attack was flailing and they couldn't stop the National Guard from coming in did he urge them to quit and tell them he loved them - so he could use them at another time.

Wingus Dingus

(8,052 posts)
35. They tried to turn the chaos and violence to their advantage, instead of
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 12:58 PM
Oct 2021

immediately shifting course and taking measures to suppress or discourage it. They are criminals who acted against the US government. Why Trump is still a free person is beyond me.

Escurumbele

(3,383 posts)
39. Is Garland delaying things to put the SOB in jail? That is what I am afraid of, Muller was a
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:08 PM
Oct 2021

disappointment, so was Rod Rosenstein, are we to expect another disappointment with Garland?

We are hearing the same talk about Garland keeping things quiet, avoiding leaks, blah, blah...I want to know what is going on? And to repeat your question, with so much proof out there, why is trump still running around free?

So far the the punishment to the insurrects has been mild, these people should be serving years in jail for treason.

If trump is not sent to jail we will have to forget about Democracy, the country will go to shit, and that is what republicans are counting on.

Ford_Prefect

(7,875 posts)
45. They built the lynch mod and sent it to kill congress. They expected far worse violence.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:24 PM
Oct 2021

They had plans beyond stopping the count and using the GOP state legislatures to alter the slates of electors.

They were planning what to do when Trump "won", like a national emergency with martial law, suspending habeas corpus, arresting reporters, and re-staffing the Cabinet and assistant directors, along with Military leaders willing to support what came after the coup.

Escurumbele

(3,383 posts)
37. One thing that is not being talked about enough is the fact that they had prepared transportation
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:04 PM
Oct 2021

for Pence to get him out of the Capitol, and buses for Congress members. That would have been the stroke of genius if Pence and Congress had agreed to get on the transportation, it would have dismantled the process in one single stroke.

How did they manage to get the many buses ready so fast? who gave the order to send the buses?

The limousine for Pence I can understand having ready, but the buses is another issue...Where were those buses coming from?

Anyone who thinks the insurrection was not planned ahead of time is not paying attention.

Ford_Prefect

(7,875 posts)
48. The same people who rented the busses managed their distribution on the day.
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:44 PM
Oct 2021

They did not throw this together in a few days. The evidence suggests it was in the works from at least Nov.5, if not prior to that. They knew from their own polls he wasn't likely to win a straight-up election well before Nov 4.

The plans, resources and order of battle were in place well before the event as were the templates for the endless challenges and the state level voting restriction laws. The White House crew and those in the campaign office were parts of a much larger organization as we have seen.

There has been an ongoing attempt to make Jan. 6 appear to be a moment of spontaneous anger among the Trump faithful at the rally. The MSM has done much to present it that way and have completely discounted the months of TLG saying he'd only loose if the vote was crooked. The only 2 things that didn't happen to plan on Jan.6 were: 1. Pence found out he couldn't get away with his part in the plan, and 2. Pelosi reconvened and completed the count.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
40. Federal law against insurrection
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:08 PM
Oct 2021

It's like we don't have any laws about insurrection.

8 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

usaf-vet

(6,178 posts)
44. How many young American lives have been lost in wars to "SAVE OUR COUNTRY OUR WAY OF LIFE"?
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:23 PM
Oct 2021

Since WW I, young Americans have volunteered to go to war to save our "way of life" and defend our Constitution.

Then along comes a charlatan, a liar, a conman, a sexual predator, and a "businessman" who has failed at every attempt.

Match him up with McTurtle, a co-conspirator willing to ignore laws and years of congressional precedence to steal SCOTUS seats to stack that same court. And other courts throughout the country with accolades that are always expected to decide the cases before them with their prejudice finger of the scale.

And finally, a "news" network willing to ignore truths and sensationalize the marching orders designed to create doubt and chaos, and you have the makings of a path to a treasonous coup.

It's is no surprise that January 6th happened and that there would be a massive attempt to cover it up when the Eastman/Trump plan failed.

In my opinion, we owe it to all who served and all who gave up their lives not to let this COUP attempt succeed.

And bring the leaders to trial and harsh punishment, including co-conspirator #1 Donald J. Trump.

Champp

(2,114 posts)
49. The Republican evil plot against the USA is political raw sewage
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 01:51 PM
Oct 2021

Republican traitors all deserve long-erm imprisonment for their crimes against America.

FakeNoose

(32,610 posts)
50. The WORLD is watching us - they need to see how we handle it
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 02:06 PM
Oct 2021

Every country in the so-called western world (i.e. democratic republics) are waiting to see how the USA handles this debacle. We're all facing fascist and ultra-conservative threats, and so far the US hasn't shown a lot of leadership in dealing with them. This is when we shit or get off the pot.

If we can't figure this out, if we can't handle it, then we have no right to tell other countries how to handle their fascist threats either. I want to believe that we will handle it honorably and correctly. I just hope it gets fixed in my lifetime.

It's time to take out the trash!

kacekwl

(7,016 posts)
61. Question, can't someone be arrested for a crime
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 05:48 PM
Oct 2021

while the DOJ builds it's case ? It would put the whole bunch of them in the hot seat and I would think easier to interrogate and gather more evidence. Yes or no ?

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
62. Funny thing is that their messiah
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 06:04 PM
Oct 2021

doesn't even have the courage to stand with them.

Instead saying "Go Home, we love you".

The insurrectionists must be the stupidest most gullible humans alive on the planet.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,562 posts)
63. I'm perplexed - but ultimately relieved, of course - that the insurrectionists...
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 07:30 PM
Oct 2021

...didn't arrrive at the Capitol armed to the teeth.

I think I have the line about Eastman demanding that Pence "do the right thing" sussed out. That "the right thing" was getting in line with their (Eastman and Drumpf) objectives.

I really, really like Josh M's reportage and analysis. I really should make him part of my regular reading list. I keep meaning to.

lees1975

(3,845 posts)
67. These are serious crimes. If you or I did this...
Sun Oct 31, 2021, 10:44 PM
Oct 2021

...we'd be arrested and in jail with a high bond for release. Why do we need a congressional committee to arrest criminals? Just send the police and jail them without bond. This should go to trial, not to Congress.

Good grief if we can't get this done, then we're going to lose this country quickly.

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