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Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:00 PM

Ted Lieu: must pass inherent contempt legislation now. Or subpoenas remain meaningless


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57 replies, 5397 views

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Reply Ted Lieu: must pass inherent contempt legislation now. Or subpoenas remain meaningless (Original post)
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 OP
NewHendoLib Dec 2021 #1
Peregrine Took Dec 2021 #14
KPN Dec 2021 #2
calimary Dec 2021 #43
grumpyduck Dec 2021 #3
Snoopy 7 Dec 2021 #48
leftieNanner Dec 2021 #4
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 #8
leftieNanner Dec 2021 #9
Eyeball_Kid Dec 2021 #25
PTWB Dec 2021 #29
appmanga Dec 2021 #45
KPN Dec 2021 #50
SoCalDavidS Dec 2021 #5
Bev54 Dec 2021 #6
hay rick Dec 2021 #7
leftieNanner Dec 2021 #10
KS Toronado Dec 2021 #11
FBaggins Dec 2021 #23
Chin music Dec 2021 #53
FBaggins Dec 2021 #54
Chin music Dec 2021 #55
FBaggins Dec 2021 #56
Chin music Dec 2021 #57
Bayard Dec 2021 #16
OnDoutside Dec 2021 #17
mountain grammy Dec 2021 #20
Chin music Dec 2021 #52
ColinC Dec 2021 #12
librechik Dec 2021 #24
PTWB Dec 2021 #30
librechik Dec 2021 #42
calimary Dec 2021 #44
librechik Dec 2021 #46
Grasswire2 Dec 2021 #39
ColinC Dec 2021 #41
bluestarone Dec 2021 #13
DLevine Dec 2021 #15
gab13by13 Dec 2021 #18
Ohioboy Dec 2021 #19
Evolve Dammit Dec 2021 #21
dalton99a Dec 2021 #22
usaf-vet Dec 2021 #26
usaf-vet Dec 2021 #27
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 #28
NurseJackie Dec 2021 #31
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 #36
KPN Dec 2021 #51
ffr Dec 2021 #32
UTUSN Dec 2021 #33
tritsofme Dec 2021 #34
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 #35
Orrex Dec 2021 #37
Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2021 #38
oasis Dec 2021 #40
Silent3 Dec 2021 #47
CrispyQ Dec 2021 #49

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:01 PM

1. But...but our powder is still not dry enough

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Response to NewHendoLib (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:05 PM

14. Agreed it needs to be so much dryer! n/t

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:03 PM

2. K&R. Patience be damned.

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Response to KPN (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:25 AM

43. With a side of "Fuck that shit!"

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:07 PM

3. Anytime now, Democrats.

How much longer are you going to wait?

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Response to grumpyduck (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 11:30 AM

48. history

The republicans don't care after all don't forget it was snot nose carl rove who thumbed his nose at the subpoena and the Democratic Party did nothing about it. He was also held in contempt and nothing was done the Democratic Party can only blame themselves.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:11 PM

4. Questions -

If this is legislation, does that mean it has to pass the House and the Senate for Biden's signature?

Does this inherent contempt only apply to House subpoenas or does it apply to the Senate as well?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:40 PM

9. Thank you for sharing that

Apparently my answer is - BOTH!

This bill would apply to both House and Senate Subpoenas.

One would hope that there are 10 Senators who would see the benefit in passing this. Door swings both ways.

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Response to leftieNanner (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 06:00 PM

25. Eliminate the filibuster FIRST,

then thereís a chance that it might pass.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 07:16 PM

29. That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

We know we donít have the votes to eliminate the filibuster. We do not know (though we may suspect) that we donít have the votes to pass this legislation.

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Response to leftieNanner (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:49 AM

45. Inherent contempt...

...is the province of the individual chambers. The House does not need Senate agreement to use its inherent contempt power; a power that's been upheld by the Supreme Court.

It makes no sense to continue to fecklessly flail in getting to the bottom of the 1/6 conspiracy because of a fear of what the future may bring. If the Democrats fail in their pursuit of the truth and accountability, there will be no future as legislators to worry about because the Republican extremists will finish their work of turning this country into an autocracy.

If 1/6 is what we believe it to have been: an attempted coup, how do you not act with a sense of urgency? How can you not feel you can bring the American people along with you? The Democrats have the majority in the House, so passing the ability to use inherent contempt shouldn't be an issue.

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Response to appmanga (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:06 PM

50. THIS x 1000!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:12 PM

5. They've Given ZERO Indication They Would Be Willing To Pursue Inherent Contempt

I'm not holding my breath.

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Response to SoCalDavidS (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:32 PM

6. I would like them to explain to us why they are not pursuing it.

I know it hasn't been used for a long time but does it need more than a majority vote? What is stopping them? Are they worried about it being used on them? I am at a loss of why.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:32 PM

7. Jamie Raskin posted this in August, 2020...

"The appeals court panel's decision is stunningly wrong," Rep. Lieu said. "At the same time, this protracted legal battle over subpoena enforcement tells us that the House needs to create procedures to enforce subpoenas itself. The Supreme Court already has said that Congress has that power through inherent contempt. It's well past time to use it. The House needs to pass our inherent contempt resolution, which enables the House to levy penalties directly against those refusing to comply with Congressional subpoenas. This can be done without needing the approval of either the Senate or the Executive Branch."

Emphasis added.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:41 PM

10. And you provided us with a bit more information

Thank you.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:42 PM

11. If the House can do this w/o Senate approval

Then get Nancy to do it ASAP, $1,000,000 penalty sounds about right to me.
Million bucks should get their attention.

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 05:31 PM

23. They can't assign a penalty

If the inherent contempt power remains (and there's some debate), then all it can do is detain a recalcitrant witness until either they testify or the end of the hearings or congressional session. They have no ability to find someone guilty or assign a penalty. The detention is compulsory, not puntative.


On edit - Re-reading the statement advocating new legislation. It does indeed appear to include additional punishment options. I doubt that it would be found constitutional. Congress lacks the power to arrogate judicial powers to itself beyond the constitutional language re: impeachment. The House absolutely can't do so by resolution.


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Response to FBaggins (Reply #23)


Response to Chin music (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 03:03 PM

54. I think they're worried that they can't

It would certainly be challenged. Thereís probably a reason why it hasnít been used in decades.

IMO - the better option would be to ask a court to enforce the subpoena. Failure to comply would be a quicker path to detention

Iím also not entirely sure that we would have the votes necessary. Imprisoning a political opponent without allowing any form of judicial due process could be electorally dangerous.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #54)


Response to Chin music (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 03:32 PM

56. That's an argument to try

It doesnít answer the question of whether they still can or whether the votes exist to do so.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #56)


Response to hay rick (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:31 PM

16. Isn't Raskin an expert on Constitutional law?

If I remember right. So.....why haven't they done this already? There is already enough things we don't have the power to do, so seize the opportunity. Wonder if there would be an appeal process? How do they enforce the penalties?

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Response to Bayard (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:54 PM

17. Yes he is, which makes it weird that it hasn't been done already.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 05:13 PM

20. Then do it.. dammit.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #7)


Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:46 PM

12. Anything that depends on the senate passing something is doomed from the start.

Could we get 60 senators to support an inherent contempt law? Probably not.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 05:37 PM

24. Time to fuck the fillibuster FIRST

The fillibuster chicken game is all about Dems not playing to win. Instead they are playing not to lose by protecting their potential minority status. "Oh one day we'll be in the minority and we will then want the fillibuster." Except we never do. Schumer is a big fat oh we must play not to lose guy. He needs a spine.

Dump the fillibuster and play to win now. We won't get another opportunity.

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Response to librechik (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 07:19 PM

30. We don't have the votes to eliminate the filibuster.

 

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Response to PTWB (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:20 AM

42. I suspect there are procedural methods that leadership hesitates to use.

For sure because they just did it with the debt ceiling. Again, we won't play hardball as the PUKKKes bombard us with flaming shit cannonballs.

Trump would just do it and dare people to hold him accountable, all for his own pleasure. The Dems have democracy to protect.

Cheers! I'm just grumpy this morning.

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Response to librechik (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:29 AM

44. I am, too, this morning!

The Orange Plague wouldnít hesitate for a nanosecond.

I find myself watching the republi-CONS work their evil, lying, cheating, sneaky-ass, devious magic, and constantly asking myself ďWHY CANíT WE DO THAT?Ē

Seriously! What are we afraid of? Not being nice???

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Response to calimary (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 10:58 AM

46. grrr!

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Response to ColinC (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:26 AM

39. go back to comment #7.

House can pass this by itself.

No Senate needed.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:30 AM

41. Beautiful.

Thank you!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 03:49 PM

13. if we DON'T need the Senate, then

DO IT NOW!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:09 PM

15. K&R. nt

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:55 PM

18. Laura, you are one of the voices of reason here,

your opinion carries weight.

Want to know another delay tactic I just heard about coming from Mark Meadows? Now he is claiming he will respond to questions in writing, give me a break. I think back to Hillary sitting for 11 hours answering every question.

I hope people realize that Congress is going on Christmas vacation.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 04:55 PM

19. You know damn well

If it had been Biden supporters attacking the Capitol republicans wouldn't be allowing the clock to run out.

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Response to Ohioboy (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 05:20 PM

21. You got that right.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 05:27 PM

22. Kick

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 06:28 PM

26. They have lost me and my checkbook. No one would get rich on my monthly donations BUT....

.... add us up, add up all the small donations, and it would make a difference. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT THEIR ADs SAY.

I'm sure I'm not the only one fed up with the LACK of perceptible action.

In fact, now I feel insulted when the pleas for money come across my desk every day via email and snail-mail.

I feel like the "mark" any grifter looks for.

It seems like the meme the party in control ALWAYS loses seats in the midterm election.

Throw some of the treasonous bastards that assaulted the capital in jail and get the AG off his a$$ or replace him.

It seems to me we have progressive women in the party with legal experience that have more cojones than the current AG.

Sorry to say, Garland and Mueller might have been giants in the past, but their "use by date" also seems to have passed.

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 06:39 PM

27. Like I said I am sure I'm not the only one who is dishearted. Here is another current OP.

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Response to usaf-vet (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 07:07 PM

28. I think it's really easy to blame the media or blame the legal maneuverings

for why we can't do something or why poll numbers go down. And it's easy to say there is nothing that can be done. Surely there are savvy minds that can figure out ways around problems that are legal and don't betray our values.

Time for a week long retreat of the greatest minds in the Democratic party, pollsters, admen, lawyers, constitution experts, creative types.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 07:27 PM

31. Rea-a-a-aly, Ted. Seriously? Just like that? We can *snap* and make it happen?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:27 AM

36. Funny

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:18 PM

51. ...

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 08:43 PM

32. I only need to ask what TFG and McConnell would do to know what else we should be doing

Exercise all options.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 10:08 PM

33. K&R

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Wed Dec 8, 2021, 10:12 PM

34. Tweets like this might be good for Ted's fundraising haul

Not sure for what else, though.

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:26 AM

35. Interesting take. The politics of it all. Wonder

why, I mean truly why, this bill hasn't passed.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:37 AM

37. Maybe one of our local message police can scold Lieu for his outraged ranting

While they're at it, they can tell him that he's "embarrassing" himself, since a front-page article here today declared the same about anyone who expresses impatience with "The System."

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Response to Orrex (Reply #37)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 12:42 AM

38. Think you're trying to say something. But it's veiled.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:26 AM

40. Kick and Rec.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 11:06 AM

47. Is this something the House can do all by itself?

This will never get past the Senate if they need the Senate.

And since the inherent contempt power has been used before, why is new legislation needed?

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 9, 2021, 11:33 AM

49. Post #7 says they don't need the senate or the executive branch. --nt

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