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Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:21 PM

The question is, what would happen?

Just listening to a really great podcast called Americas Next Civil War and it got me thinking…

Serious question. It is 2024 and Biden and Trump go head-to-head in the general. Biden kicks Trumps arse… I mean seriously destroys him in the popular vote and wins the electoral college by a comfortable margin. So far so hopefully normal. But with all the anti-democratic shenanigans going on at far right gop state level in purple states to take over the entire electoral systems and bastardised the integrity of the election system – what happens if they choose to ignore the vote of the people and send Trump electoral college electors to Washington instead? What happens if enough states do this that the electoral votes go to Trump even though he did not win them? Presumably it would go to SCOTUS, which is hardly reassuring, or maybe not?

I know that is a hypothetical q at the mo but they are actively working on this plan right now. So, what would happen next?!?! How would the system work to stop those democracy stealers?

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Reply The question is, what would happen? (Original post)
Soph0571 Dec 2021 OP
onecaliberal Dec 2021 #1
sarisataka Dec 2021 #2
Silent3 Dec 2021 #3
Crunchy Frog Dec 2021 #4
Gaugamela Dec 2021 #5
keithbvadu2 Dec 2021 #8
doc03 Dec 2021 #6
Hoyt Dec 2021 #7

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:28 PM

1. I agree that is their play. Everything they're doing it to this end.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:32 PM

2. The 1st thing you need to do

Is get the notion out of your head that the popular vote matters, It does not.

Given your scenario if the electoral votes cannot be successfully challenged according to the Constitutional procees then trump becomes President.

SCOTUS would not take it the issue as it is all clearly laid out in the Constitution.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:47 PM

3. I think it's possible, at least, that some of the bluer of blue states might decide to secede.

That could lead to violence and possibly civil war because even very blue states still have a lot of angry, violent Trump supporters in them who wouldn't stand for that.

I wouldn't be sure if keeping the peace, and hoping for another way to escape the downfall of democracy would be best, or if a terrible conflict from secession is the only way out. I'd do my best to move to one of those blue states, like neighboring Massachusetts, if I had to.

Even without violence, the break-up of the United States would be a very ugly and messy thing economically and politically. Just think about dividing up the nukes as one small part of that.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:56 PM

4. We basically become Belarus.

I honestly don't see any way out for our country.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 04:59 PM

5. There is this: The Guarantee Clause

I wouldn’t hold my breath, but it’s a possibility. They’d have to get past the filibuster to act.

The Guarantee Clause, also known as the Republican Form of Government Clause, is in Article IV, Section 4 of the United States Constitution, and requires the United States to guarantee every State a Republican form of government and provide protection from foreign invasion and domestic violence.

Article IV, Section 4:

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Cases such as Luther v. Borden held the Guarantee Clause to be a political question to be resolved by Congress. Relying on that understanding, the Reconstruction era Congress disestablished ten state governments during peacetime and placed them under military rule. The law, known as the First Reconstruction Act, found those states to be unrepublican under the Guarantee Clause.[4][5] The Supreme Court acquiesced to the disestablishment in Georgia v. Stanton (1868).[6] Later, Congress also excluded elected legislators (a power recognized in Luther) when it faced "an election dispute created by state measures to suppress black voter turnout."[6]




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee_Clause

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Response to Gaugamela (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 06:17 PM

8. a Republican Form of Government

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 05:16 PM

6. I think the SCOTUS would rule in favor of Trump.

We would be screwed. They got away with it in 2000 but it was razor thin. If we win again by 6 million votes like last year and the EV it would ugly. We would labeled insurectionist.
Thom Hartmann was taking about that today. Several
states named their own electors and did that in the R. B. Hayes election in 1876.. They got away with it.


https://www.rbhayes.org/hayes/disputed-election-of-1876/

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Dec 28, 2021, 05:21 PM

7. Supreme Court held in 2020. Think they would do same in 2024.

 

A major difference in 2024 is that Democrats will be in charge of most aspects of federal government, including military and DOJ.

Most likely way to scare off voters is to convince them their vote won’t count.

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