General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe new COVID guidelines aren't quite as described.
I've had to enforce the CDC guidelines in my classroom since the fall - so I am intimately familiar with what they were before.
The post-exposure recommendations for fully vaccinated individuals have changed in detail, but not substance.
Before the new recommendations - if you were fully vaccinated you don't have to stay home after you have been exposed. It was recommended you test at 5 days, but unless you test positive or start experiencing symptoms - as long as you wear a mask quarantine was not recommended before the changes and is not recommended now.
What has changed is the pool of people who are considered fully vaccinated (it has shrunk).
To be treated as fully vaccinated NOW you must fall into one of these three categories:
1. You have had any booster
2. Your mRNA series was completed less than 6 months ago
3. Your J&J vaccination was completed less than 2 months ago.
So MORE people are considered unvaccinated (and subject to quarantine) under the new guidelines. (But the quarantine has been shortened)
Here's a handy-dandy flow chart (stamped Ohio, but it was created using the new CDC guidelines).
The shift from 10 days to 5 days, without mandatory testing stinks - BUT - that shift is also tied to the new definition of fully vaccinated. More people (with stale vaccinations or only J&J) will be required to stay home after exposure.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)All else is secondary, at best.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)But I haven't seen the vaccine-based distinction explained in any of the articles about the new guidelines.
The flowchart does a particularly good explaining what it means to be vaccinated (it's not what you think it is) and what you should do if you choose to follow the guidelines or (like me) have to enforce them.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)I was simply expressing my frustration at the endlessly mercurial guidelines put forth by our esteemed CDC.
In the same way that a 75mph speed limit means drivers will go 90, a slightly relaxed covid guideline will be interpreted as "the pandemic is over! Do whatever you want!"
Give 'em an inch...
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)It is assinine to permit people who have COVID to go back to work just by counting days, without a negative test.
5 days will probably catch most vaccinated individuals - but unvaccinated individuals are contagious for 7-9 days. And we know that (1) people with stale vaccinations are gonna claim to be vaccinated - because no one is explaining that vaccination means recent and/or boosted and (2) people with no vaccinations at all are going to follow the vaccinated guidelines. So once you say 5 days for anyone (without no end test) EVERYONE is going to take 5 days as gospel. Just like they did when he guidelines said vaccinated people didn't need to wear masks earlier.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)I encounter every sentiment on that spectrum many times a week.
Madness.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The CDC is trying to stop the pandemic, stop others, and keep as many people alive as possible.
Although people do depend for their lives and livelihoods on the economy, it is NOT the CDC's job to "keep the economy open". That's other peoples'.
But if they ignored realities like gravity and economic effects, their guidelines would be ignored and fail, so they consult constantly with others on which of the inadequate but possible options will work best (be followed most). You talk frustration, but that can't be a spot on theirs.
And of course, the many factors they have to work with are always in flux, so the guidelines have to change.
Imo, the talking faces who told people it was appropriate to get frustrated because the CDC has to issue new guidelines, for all the world as if they were fast food employees who can't get the orders right, should be run out of town, or at least sent to Fox to do their dirty work.
Happy 2022.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)I've worn at least two masks everywhere I've gone since the pandemic began, I personally keep several hand sanitizer companies in business, and of course I'm vaxed & boosted.
Even so, I'm frustrated that--regardless of the intent or motivation--the CDC is giving ambiguous and seemingly arbitrary instructions that a covid-suspicious public is naturally going to ignore or dismiss.
Yes, our understanding of the disease changes all the time, as does the disease itself, but the handling has led to a ridiculous hyper-balkanized response when a unified national, indeed worldwide, response is required.
If I go to five businesses in a day, as my job requires, I will see them display ten completely different ways of handling the pandemic, all of which meet CDC guidelines and none of which seems like a serious effort to thwart the disease.
Very little clear, consistent guidance is reaching the average citizen, and when there is clear guidance, the average citizen can correctly say "well that's totally different from what they said last week."
But the one thing that remains consistent? The economy is prioritized over absolutely everything else. And regardless of its chartered mission, the CDC plays into that.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)-- for myself -- because they're formulated for over 300M people in friendly and hostile territories and god knows how many private and government institutions, with many different realities. Not for me.
Unlike the CDC, as an individual, I don't have to limit my choices to what won't cause crooked governors and angry parents to flat refuse to have anything to do with them. Or to what won't be knocked down by politically motivated judges. There were always many highly qualified people (preferably not a talking-head careerist) competently explaining what INDIVIDUALS need to do as this continued.
Our son's work's like yours, but takes him into hospitals and SNFs; he's always compliant at peak with the industries, no matter how they word it, but if a business decides on a special requirement, he meets it and likely adds any cost to his bill.
Btw, I should be open that problems at the CDC have never kept me from being an admirer overall. Things were really bad with tRump's corrupt director ignoring its scientists to obey him. (Nurses were wearing garbage bags in Covid wards, for god's sake, while the tRump admin was already refusing and eventually literally blocking getting the DME they needed.) Not to say there aren't occasional failures. Or that in the best of conditions there wouldn't have been difficultly choosing the best of the possible courses or that hindsight wouldn't reliably provide better information on which had higher likelihoods of working better.
In any case, regarding guidance, I watched the CDC appalled, bled for its horrified and embattled professionals, and took the advice of the many non-CDC world-class independent experts who agreed on what individuals needed to do: be responsible, mask well, keep hands clean and away from face, maintain social distancing, stay out of enclosed public spaces amap, and don't buy up the nation's N95s. And a few other things for people who wanted to be extra careful.
Isn't the best course for individuals pretty much the same now? Except to stay fully vaccinated and buy medical-quality masks? To me vaccine decisions are simple: when the FDA approves one for me I get whatever version is being given in my area. I'm very high risk due to autoimmune and other health problems, but unlike you we do have the stifling luxury of isolating.
As for the rest, including business requirements, err toward conscientiousness? After all, good mothers and schools teach kids to always scrub their hands and keep them away from their faces, not to check CDC guidelines to see what current recommendations are.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 1, 2022, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)
For my money, the problem is that we simply can't rely on individuals to do the right thing if that means even the slightest inconvenience to them, or even a minimal disruption of their comfortable routine. Without some penalty for refusal to behave responsibly, a large number of people will simply refuse to behave responsibly.
As for businesses, just about every one that I've encountered since the pandemic began has prioritized its bottom line before absolutely anything else, and worker/customer safety has been no real priority at all.
Since, as I mentioned, my job requires me to enter multiple businesses daily, I started keeping track of how many local sites were, by their own assertion, explicitly forbidden by their corporate office to interfere with no-mask customers. Those businesses, prioritizing profit over all else, would rather risk getting their employees or customers infected (which would be difficult to trace to/blame on the company) than risk a negative comment online from a no-mask asshole.
So although I definitely exceed the CDC's guidelines for myself and my family, I am ultimately hobbled by a public at large that apparently couldn't care less.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)An answer would be an authoritarian government people refuse to obey at their own predicable peril. Unless it was one headed by the sort of depraved, corrupt authoritarians the right's electing these days.
We're all dragged down by the corruption of RW attitudes and the fecklessness of 100,000 who didn't bother to vote in 2016. Wish it were still unbelievable. This pandemic could have been mostly contained and stopped in all or almost all areas of the country within a few weeks to months, even without antibiotics. 800,000 victims ago.
I feel a little like decent Germans must have who had to live through their period of insanity. Without the carpet bombing and scrabbling through garbage to fend of starvation of course.
Geez, sounds like I should go get something to eat, take a vitamin.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Actually following any policy of monitoring who is fully vaxed etc? Do they have vax exemptions? Do they tell you who is actually fully vaxed or exempted? Agree no testing stinks and so do the other changes imo.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)The schools is monitoring vaccine status (vaccines are required - but there isn't currently a new requirement to refresh your vaccination if you're not up-to-date). Students/faculty/staff are obligated to register vaccination status. It will take a couple of weeks at the start of the semester, but they will be enforcing the mandate.
There are exceptions. I think religion and health.
There are contact tracers. Once you report symptoms/positive test/exposure the process of contact tracing includes checking the vaccination database to determine the appropriate level/duration of quarantine. Unfortunately, the contact tracing is not as swift as it needs to be - and I often hear directly from the person who exposed me a few days before I hear from the contact tracer.
They aren't allowed to disclose information about specific students. They can't even formally tell me who has tested positive for COVID - only that someone I was in close contact with on a specific date/time, in a specific location tested positive. As a practical matter either the student has told me or I have informally learned info I'm not really allowed to know as part of the need to double-check students' "fuzzy" memories of all of the students sitting around them.
As to the other changes (definition of up-to-date vaccination) - aside from being complicated and not well publicized - the change will keep more people in quarantine, which is a good thing. If you're vaccination is too old, you are treated as if you were never vaccinated.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)I may be facing a similar situation soon. Do they tell you who is vaxed and not?
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)All faculty, staff, and students must be vaccinated - or have an exemption. Students can be dismissed; employees vary, depending on the classification, but will be subject to discipline. (Pretty hard to get rid tenured professors; easy to get rid of hourly workers not represented by a union. There are about a dozen different categories)
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)There should be no religious exemptions for this and most of the medical ones will be bogus. If they are sued for causing deaths maybe it will change.
Larissa
(790 posts)Very well clarified -- even for toadstools like me. I got the (Moderna) booster on October 22, 2021, so I'm not yet ready to march into the CDC and start licking doorknobs.
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)with ~40 brand new students - and I'm getting questions about whether they should come in to class or not. Yikes!
I had the old rules down pat . . . so this was an act of self-preservation!
Deminpenn
(15,286 posts)but regardless of CDC recommendations, people are moving on from covid and getting back to their regular lives.
FBaggins
(26,737 posts)The new guidelines that have drawn done criticism here are for people who test positive not just for exposure. I havent seen reporting that the new standard was only for fully vaccinated individuals
Ms. Toad
(34,072 posts)The media is banding about the word vaccinated, without recognizing that caricatured doesn't just mean any old vaccination. It means up to date vaccination. If you're vaccinations are stale, the CDC treats you As unvaccinated.
This chart was made by people who has studied the guidelines, not just the media splash. It has been vetted by three governmental entities to use in enforcing the new guidelines.
cadoman
(792 posts)...the next, because they failed to boost, they have become a filthy MAGAT.
We literally have people walking around with two shots worth of "protection" that has expired like a rusted fire extinguisher. Guess what fools, the same way you have to buy a new fire extinguisher from time to time you have to GET BOOSTED!
It's up to all of us to confront the so-called "vaccinated" in our communities and demand proof of booster shots.
Un-boosted is un-vaccinated.
Unvaccinated is anti-vaccination.
Anti-vaccination is anti-science.
You don't want to know what comes after anti-science but trust me you don't want to be it. Get fucking boosted.
It's really no different that childhood vaccinations - which also have expirtion dates and have to be booseted in middle school.