Trump's troops: The far-right has a tight grip on too many in uniform

[SharonClark]

Excellent commentary from Heather Digby Parton . . .

What if Trump leads another insurrection? How many military and law enforcement members will stand firm?
[snip]
Until the January 6th insurrection, Trump was the nation's most vociferous defender of police. But on that day he was strangely reserved, tepidly tweeting that the rioters should be respectful but pretty much remaining hands-off for hours as his rabid followers stormed the U.S. Capitol and assaulted hundreds of police who were trying to keep the mob from attacking members of Congress. That night he said the violent horde that did the following was very special and that he loved them.
[snip]
Last month the Pentagon released new guidelines on how to deal with extremism in the ranks, which they now realize is a growing problem. The Washington Post reported that the University of Maryland consortium "released a report last month showing that since 1990, 458 crimes tied to extremism involved veterans or active-duty U.S. troops." In fact, the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil before 9/11, the Oklahoma City bombing, was carried out by a military veteran who had been radicalized while on duty and later joined a far-right militia group.

The military really doesn't have any idea how widespread this problem is.
[snip]
The prospect of members of law enforcement agencies and the military breaking off into rogue commands seems like something out of a political thriller. And it's probably not very likely. But then the election of Donald Trump was unlikely as was the insurrection of January 6th. I would have thought it unlikely that police officers would defend a vicious mob beating other cops with flagpoles or that active duty military would boldly participate in it. We all should recognize by now that anything can happen.

source: https://www.salon.com/2022/01/10/troops-the-far-right-has-a-firm-hold-on-too-many-in-uniform/

[Chainfire]

1. More jocks than hippies gravitate towards jobs of power and authority.

It is a fact of life. It has always been, and is now, about the jocks vs the hippies.

If someone has no morals, no ethics, no skills and no education and no desire to work, they can become cops, soldiers or car salesmen.

[colorado_ufo]

17. Really?

[maxrandb]

24. I served with a lot of former hippies

They were some of the best Sailors I ever had the pleasure to know.

I don't know if I would meet your definition of a hippy, but I did follow The Who around the midwest one summer and smoked a shit ton of weed before I joined the military.

Ended up doing almost 30 years and retired as a Navy Mustang Officer.

Thank God I had no morals, or desire to work.

We're not all right-wing jugheads that serve in the military. We truly are a microcosm of America.

[70sEraVet]

28. I think a lot of 'hippies' joined the Navy, especially in the 60's and 70's

to avoid getting drafted into jungle warfare. I was one of them. I just did my four years, and still have good friends from those days.

[Chainfire]

40. I was another

[Chainfire]

41. I think you protest too much.

My statement was not that all people who join the military of the police are slugs, just that a lot of slugs join the police and military. Try responding to what I said, not what you think that I meant. Now if you don't think that bully types, or jocks gravitate towards the police and military, I would like to hear what your reasoning might be. If the generals and admirals are concerned about the issue, you might think that it was a possible problem.

I was one of those hippies that joined the Navy under imminent threat of Vietnam, but since I did not appreciate a culture of Nationalism, authoritarianism and blind obedience to those appointed above me, I did my minimum time and got to hell out. I got the best of both worlds, VA benefits and license to badmouth the system.

[maxrandb]

42. Jeesh, where to start

Last edited Wed Jan 12, 2022, 09:25 AM - Edit history (1)

I can tell you from experience that bullying didn't fly at any of the commands I served at. It wasn't tolerated by my commanders, and when I promoted to positions of authority, I sure didn't tolerate it either.

You should take a tour of a Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier, or visit the Combat Engagement Center on a Destroyer. Then tell me how many "bullies and jocks" you run into.

I can't speak for the police, but I am guessing that quite a lot of them are not bullies and jocks.

And "jocks"? Maybe you can explain what is wrong about exercising and keeping in shape. JFK, Bob Kerry, John Kerry, Alan Shepherd, John Glenn, Roger Staubach, Bill Bradley, Tammy Duckworth, Elaine Luria...are those the "jocks" you speak of?

Your attitude is so fucked, it almost leaves me speechless.

Military service can be an honorable and noble job. It is also something that has a proud history among Democratic leaders and politicians.

If anything, we should be encouraging our young, liberal, progressive Democratic sons and daughters to serve.

To do elsewise would be to truly surrender the military to "jocks and bullies".

[Chainfire]

47. I suppose you either didn't read or comprehend my reply.

Apparently you do not know the term Jock has more than one meaning, so here, I will help you out: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jock

Once again, and I will type it very slowly, I did not say that all police or all military are jocks, but I did suggest that many jocks and bullies gravitate toward those two occupations. Your reply indicated that you did not comprehend the difference.

While I appreciate your list of your military heroes, I will not reply with a list of cops, service, or former service people that have gone bad, but names like Calley, McVey and Chauvin certainly meet the urban dictionary definition of "jocks." However, if you want to insist that there is no bullying in the service or the police, you are entitled to your opinion, but I remember the non-coms and officers that were bullies and it really showed when they were the the purveyors of ancient military bullying habit, referred to by Paul Fussel as "chickenshit." Since I doubt you read Fussell in OCS, I will post his definition here. (hint, it didn't stop with the end of WWII)

Wartime: Understanding and Behavior in the Second World War, a book by Paul
Fussell offers the most thorough study of it in a chapter called “Chickenshit: An
Anatomy.”

Fussell describes chickenshit as a term that does not merely “imply
complaint about the inevitable inconveniences of military life: overcrowding and
lack of privacy, tedious institutional cookery, deprivation of personality, general
boredom.” Rather, chickenshit describes the behaviors that make “military life
worse than it need be.”

"Petty harassment of the weak by the strong; open scrimmage
for power and authority and prestige; sadism thinly disguised
as necessary discipline; a constant “paying off of old scores”;
and insistence on the letter rather than the spirit of ordinances.
Chickenshit is so called—instead of horse- or bull- or elephant
shit—because it is small-minded and ignoble and takes the
trivial seriously."

[Joinfortmill]

2. Clean 'em out.

[LonePirate]

3. The right openly supports punishing or jailing or killing those with different views.

The authoritarian attitudes of the right are very seductive for members of the military and LEOs. I’m not sure there is a solution for this.

[Irish_Dem]

4. Retired generals have been warning about it.

Retired generals often speak out for active duty officers who cannot talk publicly about issues.

So I am assuming there is concern about rogue forces. The military knows there are huge numbers of missing weapons. And troops which have been radicalized.

[maxrandb]

5. Ridding the military of extremist isn't "hard"

Last edited Tue Jan 11, 2022, 12:36 PM - Edit history (2)

This does not need to be "hard".

We didn't give up ALL of our Rights as Americans when we joined the military, but we were governed by something civilians were not, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). There are many Articles of the UCMJ that can be used to clear this "extremism" out of the military.

If we were resolved to stamp out extremism in the military, the very first thing to do is to RECALL MIKE FLYNN to Active Duty to face a Courts Martial for sedition.

But that is just a start.

There needs to be Courts Martial for ANY and ALL Active Duty, or Retired military that participated in the attack on our nation's Capitol. Nothing sends a message to the troops like some Dishonorable and "Big Chicken Dinner" Discharges and confinement in Federal Prison.

This alone will send a message that WE ARE NOT FUCKING AROUND! This should have been done the second that an Active Duty or Retired member was identified as storming the Capitol.

But we can do more than that.

We already have standards that must be met for entry into the military. You already are rejected for service for association, or membership with white supremacist and other hate groups or gangs.

Just as you have to be subjected to a physical to be approved for entry, that screening must now also extend to a review of Social Media activity. You can refuse that, but just as if you refuse a physical, you will be rejected for service.

But again, that's not hard.

Which brings me to what is the real problem

Extreme views are NOT the problem. The problem is what we have allowed to become "normal".

Requiring a woman to carry her rapists baby to term used to be "extreme". Now it's Retrumplican Party policy.

Gerrymandering minorities into Picassoest districts to limit their rights and freedom used to be racist and extreme. Now it's Retrumplican Party policy.

Demanding the Birth Certificate of the nation's first African American President used to be racist and extreme. Now it's Retrumplican Party policy.

Storming the nation's Capitol at the behest of an authoritarian dipshit used to be extreme. Now it's Retrumplican Party policy.

This didn't happen in a vacuum. It didn't happen overnight.

For the first 20 years of my Navy service, our shipboard entertainment was pretty sparse. On my first ship, we had Movie Night on the Mess Deck with a reel-to-reel projector. We eventually got two channels of CCTV with 3 movies a night on each channel to choose from.

It's funny, but as the amount and type of entertainment expanded, a strange thing happened in my Navy.

I walked into a gym in Lemoore, CA that had 5 TVs. All tuned to Fox News.

I don't remember any "hard" discussions about the gym manager deciding that's what he wanted.

I don't remember any "hard" discussions when the CO, Master Chief or Leading Chief Petty Officer made sure that the Wardroom, Chief's Mess, or Workshop TV was continuously tuned to Fox News.

I don't recall any "hard" decisions when Armed Forces Radio was mandated to broadcast the likes of Rush and Hannity.

I don't recall any "hard" discussions on the impact to African American troops "good order and discipline" when they had to hear the "Barack the Magic Negro" song courtesy of Rush, or hear Hannity describe Obama as a "Kenyan born terrorist".

Yes, there has been an increase of extremism in the military. It's cause is the same thing that has increased extremism throughout America.

Ridding it from the military is going to be easy in comparison.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. If I Could Rec A Post...

...i'd do so for this one!

[MerryBlooms]

9. Indeed. Rec.

[pecosbob]

12. I used to run the projector...we were underway once when we got 'A Bridge Too Far'...five reels

In my day, there was no hatred spewed on AFRTS.

[maxrandb]

15. It was kind of silly

But I believe that the requirement was that the operator of the projector had to be an Electricians Mate.

Guess they were concerned that one of us Skivvy Wavers would electrocute ourselves.

I still remember the smell of popcorn and DFM.

[mountain grammy]

13. K & R and thank you.

Excellent post..

[dalton99a]

18. +1

[Texin]

21. Yes, enforcement of UCOMC would help. But the draft would also be beneficial.

As it stands today (and for a couple of decades before), most of the enlistees are young and primarily undereducated kids from rural America who enlist because there are few good jobs available in the areas of the country they're from. The military is seen as an opportunity, one that can provide not only specialized training but provide educational opportunities for college entrance in the future. The people entering are predominately from MAGA country or at least significantly so.

[pandr32]

23. Good comment

[mn9driver]

25. By the late 1980's when I got out of the Navy, there was 3 hours per day

Of Rush Limbaugh on AFRTS. I assume it only got worse after that.

[calimary]

26. Highly recommended! HIGHLY!!!

I started my own little protest quite awhile ago.

Whenever I was shopping or eating in an establishment that had one or more of its monitors tuned to Pox Noise, I complained. ALWAYS POLITELY, mind you, because it tends to be complaining to one of the worker bees carrying out an order from management.

Doesn’t matter.

The POINT, the WHOLE IDEA, is the complaint. Registering a complaint. In any facet of the service industry, the customer is all important because that customer’s business keeps the store or restaurant or attraction IN business. Losing business can mean losing THE business.

And they won’t know you’re a dissatisfied customer (whose continuing support they risk losing) IF YOU DON’T SAY SOMETHING!!!!. Your business is their lifeblood.

[maxrandb]

33. Haven't gone to a lot of places since the pandemic, but I did the same

If a place had Faux News on, I left. Lodged some complaints with Tricare and the base clinic. Now they have either local news, DIY, or the Food Network on the TV. I like to think I helped change that.

I also used to call the morning local Hate Radio talk show so much I became the "token" liberal.

I found that you would probably never get through to shows like Limbaugh, or Hannity, but if a station has those shows, they also probably have a local "cookiecutter" hater in the morning. Found those are fairly easy to get through to.

Anyway, I think it starts by just saying something. If all people hear is right-wing nutsacks, you and up with a lot of right-wing nutsacks.

I often feel like I am tilting at windmills, but I firmly believe that

"None of this will ever change. The racism, fascism, misogyny, hatred and white supremacy...NONE OF IT will change, unless and until we make racism, fascism, misogyny, hatred and white supremacy unprofitable to the corporations that fund it"

[calimary]

34. Yep. Follow the money.

That’s an oldie that sure is a goodie, to this very hour.

[LoisB]

29. Yes!!

[abqtommy]

6. Really, Salon? "But then the election of Donald Trump was unlikely..." I'm sure tired of

reading this drivel from more than one "news" source. TFG has never been elected to
anything in his life. In 2016 he won the ratfucking and the fact that he's not in prison
right now just emboldens all his Fascist enablers and supporters.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. We can't let him or them gaslight or lie to us

That simple. They are behaving like Fascists and following that authoritarian Fascist mindset.

Note - I did NOT call them Nazis or anything like that . . .

I'm calling them fascists.

They are behaving like the browns shirts in the Weimar Republic. They came to power because people fell for their bullshit.

These are bad people and we need them out of our military NOW.

[llashram]

10. as the excellent

and specific post #5 points out. We can clean out the military of these so-called "rogue" elements. As far as all the "missing weapons"? We still outnumber them.

And for ANY military person or ex-military person to want to support the former loser-POTUS, I just don't understand. An Ashleigh Babbit to give up her life for the like of a fascist sexual predator, I just can't phantom the reasoning. The former-loser POTUS hated the military and disrespected us from the very beginning of his tenure as a loser-deranged POTUS. The Normandy Remembrance Day of 2020 sealed my total disdain for d. trump. He didn't want to be out in the rain?

I just hope the 'Seven Days in May' scenario stays just that, a film.

[pecosbob]

11. Not a difficult problem to solve...courts martial and summary execution.

[certainot]

14. some reported ought to investigate how many cops listen to rw radio in their patrol cars

a survey of prisoners and others transported by cops might help

[KS Toronado]

16. Yes "anything can happen."

I fear when FailedCoupGuy knows Federal Marshals are coming to arrest him, he'll call on all his loyal
followers to go do something ugly to save him.

[PJMcK]

19. This is why the Pentagon needs to act against Michael Flynn

Make an example of him!

Recall him to duty, charge him with his violations of the UCMJ, prosecute and convict him.

Show the troops what will happen if you support sedition and don't protect the Constitution.

But I don't expect much from the brass. They are too connect to the military-industrial complex and won't want to upset their applecart.

In short, I don't think we can count on the military to help our country's political problems. Hell, it appears the military is part of the problem.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. Next time they won't wait for certification

More like election night

[twodogsbarking]

22. If you state you fear the military you will be labeled ridiculous.

[keithbvadu2]

27. 1+

[Evolve Dammit]

30. Decades of Limbaugh propoganda on Armed Forces Radio had it's desired effect.

[calimary]

35. Yep. And Democrats stayed asleep and failed to act when they could have stopped it.

Or at the very least, slowed it down and made it difficult to proceed without consequences.

I wish our Dems were more pro-active, and quicker to react. Or that they could recognize a battlefield when it manifests.

I’m rather tired of hearing how we’re hysterical or over-reacting when some of us try to sound the alarm.

[Evolve Dammit]

36. Air America was the last I heard of a real progressive, pro-liberal counter to all the RW crap. On

the radio that is. OMG, Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! Sorry Amy. Daily Show, Colbert, John Oliver and MSNBC hosts (Rachel, Lawrence, Joy, Velshi and others have called it out for years on cable). I am heartened by the addition of others. It is a civil (un-civil) war. Non-shooting so far.

[calimary]

38. I remember Air America. Used to listen all the time in my car.

I never had anything else tuned in. It was a tragedy that it never got support, or prominent advertisers. It got starved to death while lying deceitful assholes were allowed to own and monopolize the pig trough.

Bring back the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE!!!

[Evolve Dammit]

43. amen to that. Thanks Reagan. And for so much more.

[maxrandb]

45. If I recall

Wingnuts screamed like banshees and organized boycotts, or threats of boycotts against any station that broadcasted Air America.

I've been told, right there on DU, that we can't do that because of some warped interpretation about the 1ST Amendment.

I believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe in freedom from consequences.

There should have been consequences for the corporations and local radio stations that poisoned our country with the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity.

Our refusal to combat Hate Radio brought us Donnie Dipshit, and our current Federalist Society Supreme Court.

Yes, elections have consequences. So does inaction

[Evolve Dammit]

46. Agreed.

[calimary]

49. Oh LORDY that's good! "Elections have consequences. So does inaction."

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUM...

I'm making a note.

[kairos12]

30. I have been out of the service for decades now.

I was an airborne ranger infantry officer, also my politics were as left as you could get. My experience was I was essentially alone in my politics, but the right-wingers around me weren't crazy.

I chalk the craziness up to the infiltration of Limbaugh Radio onto the Armed Forces Network. That came in as I was leaving.

Vets who support the Mango Duce are both a threat, and a disgrace.

[Scalded Nun]

32. You want enyone to take this seriously, cout-martial that treasonous POS Mike Flynn

If they will Court Martial a general then they will show no one is safe.

[Evolve Dammit]

37. Absolutely agree.

[maxrandb]

39. It's actually "more" important that they Court Martial a general

We like to claim that we treat people the same. This would go a long way toward proving it.

I have been racking my brain. I can't find a single reason that this traitor hasn't been recalled to active duty to face charges.

The only thing I can come up with is that we lacked the resolve to do so.

[Luz]

44. I was a janitor for years for the marines recruiting offices.

Every office I cleaned had big televisions and all were tuned to fox news. Every day, all day long.

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

[tblue37]

48. Blasting Limbaugh on Armed Forces Radio several hours a day for c cards might have

something to do with that, too.