How did I allow this to happen?

[634-5789]

[viva la]

1. And I've become a socialist.

You know, because I want Medicare not just for the elderly, but everyone.

[Budi]

2. LOL. Socialism isn't the utopian life of 'free shit' they're selling you.

That's a Big Lie.

[calimary]

5. But pretty much everything they sell you is a big lie.

When do we start
A) listening more carefully - earlier?
B) ignoring the naysayers and by-passing their lame-ass claims - earlier?
C) refusing to give in to denialism - earlier?
D) making NO further excuses about it - earlier?
E) making noise about it - earlier?
F) making EVEN MORE noise about it - earlier?
G) doing something about it - immediately?

[ck4829]

11. But everything is socialism

Sex outside of marriage - Socialism
Questioning Republicans - Socialism
Not being a conservative Christian - Socialism
Not thinking billionaires are man-angel hybrids - Socialism

We need a list of what ISN'T socialism in American politics.

[Budi]

12. No. That's the Lie. That isn't socialism at all.

You're confusing it with Democracy.

[Celerity]

17. You are conflating a political system (democracy) with policy outcomes. A democracy can yield

almost any policy outcomes, both good and bad, as long as the votes are there.

[PatrickforB]

41. Truth. This is why it is vital that we quit spending so much on war and instead

work on building a K-12 system that is the envy of the world.

Until we have an educated, informed populace that is abreast of issues and capable of understanding the effects of policies, we won't really be worthy of democracy, will we?

That's why the founders created the system of checks and balances and gave us the representative democracy of a republic. But then, we are well on the way to becoming too ignorant to deserve that, either.

To paraphrase Orwell, truth is lies, and lies are truth! What, we have something like 30 or 40 million Americans who cannot tell the difference?

[Celerity]

42. +1

[DFW]

15. That's easy

A crowded barbecue with nothing but unmasked European-American people who smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, own guns, profess to be "Christians," and support the death penalty.

[questionseverything]

26. Socialism is when we all get together to pay for something

That we can’t afford individually

People that pretend anyone is looking for “free shit” are the liars

[Beartracks]

33. This is it! Like everything else, Republicans also lie about "what is socialism."

The socialism described by Republicans is a non-existent bogeyman they can use to strike fear into gullible voters who then are supposed to vote FOR Republicans against their own interests.

==========

[murielm99]

34. Oh. I thought that was how insurance worked.

[questionseverything]

36. Except no need for a profit

N/t

[PatrickforB]

43. I like this concept too, that we cannot afford this individuality that has been

pounded into us by the right wing for decades.

It surely has cost us almost everything.

[SCantiGOP]

45. Fight against all socialism

If I see that socialistic Highway Department filling in pot holes on my street again I'm going to go all Hannity on them. Same thing for that freeloading Fire Department - take my tax money just to sit around the station and polish their trucks.

I enjoy blasting back at the MAGAts on other forums when they label as Socialism something like Voting Rights or Student Loan reform.
Tell them they wouldn't know socialism if it deposited their Social Security check into their FDIC insured bank account.

[KS Toronado]

35. I always thought Socialism was the opposite of Capitalism

Purely just an economic system. Capitalism says the all mighty dollar controls everything, Socialism
says let's tax things so we can look after the universal good, fire departments, libraries, SS, etc.

[questionseverything]

37. We already have a mix of both

Just need to keep adjusting til there’s a minimum standard

[Susan Calvin]

3. How about in 60 years from a moderate Republican? nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

20. Exactly what I was thinking!

My current politics match Dwight Eisenhower’s from 60 years ago!

[plimsoll]

4. I love it when the drag out Churchill quote

About “if you aren’t liberal when your young, you don’t have a heart. If you aren’t a conservative when your an adult you don’t have a brain.” I can’t go crazy fast enough to join the conservatives before I die, so I guess I don’t have a brain.

[ck4829]

10. I don't think that was even Churchill who said that, I think it was about the Spanish Civil War

And it had nothing to do with left/right politics in America.

[plimsoll]

14. I've never been sure about the source,

But that’s who they want to believe it was. As for it not being about US politics, has inaccurate context ever stopped conservatives? We seem shocked by the QAnnon buffet of crazy, but the Creationist debate was always the same stuff.

[DFW]

19. I lived in Spain for a while during the end of the Franco era

The Spanish Civil War was still very much a hot topic of discussion (I lived in Catalunya), and that doesn't sound like anything I heard while living there. I speak both Castilian and Catalan, so I was well integrated, and would have remembered it if I had heard it. If it was a slogan at all, it would have been from another part of the country more friendly to the Falange.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Origin seems to be Burke and the reverse of the common formulation (if republican means conservative

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/24/heart-head/

Quote Investigator: The earliest strong match known to QI appeared in a history book titled “Histoire de la Révolution de 1870-71” by French literary figure Jules Claretie. The book included a reprint of a public 1872 letter from academic and politician Anselme Polycarpe Batbie who employed the saying. Interestingly, Batbie, credited the remark to “Burke”. Below is an excerpt in French followed by an English translation. Boldface has been added:[1]

Plusieurs de mes amis m’engageaient à répondre par le trait célèbre de Burke: « Celui qui n’est pas républicain à vingt ans fait douter de la générosité de son âme; mais celui qui, après trente ans, persévère, fait douter de la rectitude de son esprit. »

Several of my friends urged me to respond with Burke’s famous line: “Anyone who is not a republican at twenty casts doubt on the generosity of his soul; but he who, after thirty years, perseveres, casts doubt on the soundness of his mind.”

[Crunchy Frog]

40. "Republican" at that time and place, was equivalent to "flaming leftist".

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. You never became heartless, so you remain a liberal and did not become a RepubliQon. . . . nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Quotes Falsely Attributed to Churchill

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/

These quotes make for good storytelling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Winston Churchill

Conservative by the Time You’re 35

‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.’

There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University made this comment: ‘Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?’

[smirkymonkey]

30. It's been a long time since that quote was relevant. At least in this country, and seemingly in the

UK as well.

For decades, the republicans (who are no longer even really "conservative" ) have been the party of crazy and stupid.

[plimsoll]

31. It's the reason I love it.

They ignore context, hear words they recognize but don’t understand and think they’re so smart.


But hey MTG is a conservative and therefore has a brain. With that logic, the space lasers must be true.

[LoisB]

6. I have never been a "moderate" Democrat but I think I am getting more radical as I get older.

Maybe because I don't worry about consequences so much now or have less patience with b.s.

[Bettie]

7. I am too

but, maybe it is because we're not getting more prosperous like people used to.

More likely, it is because we on the left pay attention to the common good rather than just our own financial position.

[LoisB]

18. That is so true.

[DFW]

23. I know one guy who grew more liberal as he grew older and more prosperous

When he moved to Dallas, he first lived in an affluent gated community. He then started to make some serious money, and moved out of the gated community (I haven't done anything wrong, I don't need to live in a jail, he said), and set up a charitable foundation to help educate kids who couldn't afford it. He is one of those few who pays attention to both his financial position AND the common good. Not everyone is Sheldon Adelson.

[Bettie]

25. He sounds like a good guy

there are probably more like him and I think, but the evil ones get more publicity.

[DFW]

28. That they do

The good guys rarely, if ever, feel a need to toot their own horn, especially if they never had any intention of running for office. Therefore there are seldom headlines about them. Those who shout "tax the rich" loudest never mention them, either, as they don't fit into the convenient stereotype of the evil affluent. But there are plenty of them, just as there are, unfortunately, plenty of the other kind.

[Slammer]

38. Bible

Like the Bible says, "He who toots his own horn, the same shall be tooted." - 2 Leviticus 3:28

[Cracklin Charlie]

8. Did you see that video?

Republican talent lady said something like “express lane pickup at Starbucks was communism”. And then she kicked the sign with her hooker pumps?

These people need to go to school. Eh…it’s probably hopeless.

[Tommymac]

9. My reply in another DU thread applies here too.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16235368

[dchill]

13. Standing still in a river of shit.

[malaise]

27. It wasn't you

They moved to the right - great post

[Skittles]

29. we haven't changed

they have

[Demovictory9]

32. lol

[Slammer]

39. positions

Heh.

I used to have Trump's political journey memorized back for discussion during the 2016 campaign. It went something like

"Trump went from being a Democrat to an Independent to Reform to Independent to Reform to Democrat to Independent to Republican without significantly changing his stance on any issues...except abortion and it's pretty transparent that he's lying about his change in stance on that to become more politically palatable to the Religious Right."

====

I used to be able to say that I voted for policy positions, not political parties or the candidates. But since Trump I can't say that anymore and have to use a checklist.

1) Is the candidate sane or insane?
2) Does the candidate believe in having a democracy with democratic elections?
3) Does the candidate's party believe in having a democracy with democratic elections?
4) What are the candidate's policy positions?

[Rebl2]

44. Truth!