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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(109,279 posts)
Sat Jan 15, 2022, 10:38 PM Jan 2022

Manchin and Sinema Must Face 'Consequences' for Stalling Voting Rights, Democratic Rep Says

Representative Adriano Espaillat, a Democrat from New York, said that Democratic Sens. Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin "must face consequences" after declining to support President Joe Biden's push for voting rights legislation.

This week, Manchin and Sinema reiterated their support for the Senate filibuster—a rule that Biden and other Democrats want to change in order to pass voting rights bills—delivering a major setback for the president's agenda. The filibuster requires lawmakers in the Senate to reach a 60-vote threshold to advance legislation. The Democratic majority only holds 50 seats in the chamber.

In an interview with SiriusXM radio host Dean Obeidallah that was posted online Saturday afternoon, Obeidallah asked Espaillat: "If President Biden and [Majority Leader] Schumer cannot in any way motivate, pressure... Manchin and Sinema, can President Biden, do you hope he'll use executive orders? Are there other things he can do to convey to our fellow Americans the importance of this, if we don't have legislation?"

"There must be consequences," Espaillat responded. "It's as simple as that. The president calls you and you're going to derail one of his top initiatives, our vision? There's got to be consequences for this."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/manchin-and-sinema-must-face-consequences-for-stalling-voting-rights-democratic-rep-says/ar-AASP1lj

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Manchin and Sinema Must Face 'Consequences' for Stalling Voting Rights, Democratic Rep Says (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2022 OP
Damn right elleng Jan 2022 #1
What consequences? Go sit in the corner? Time out? That's ridiculous. Find ways to make deals. LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #8
You mean pay them more than what they're getting elsewhere? KPN Jan 2022 #12
What sort of punishment do you envision? As if "consequences" are going to help. LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #22
And inthewind21 Jan 2022 #48
would he like them flogged? Takket Jan 2022 #2
There's always jaysunb Jan 2022 #5
"Russia" ! won't be that for to mail a check ! monkeyman1 Jan 2022 #11
✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ n/t msfiddlestix Jan 2022 #31
The executive branch has all kinds of tools that KPN Jan 2022 #14
That means continuing NEGOTIATIONS and not punishing them which will only worsen the situation. LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #23
Only if the other party negotiates in good faith can you negotiate. If not, KPN Jan 2022 #35
And Sinema and Manchin take a walk to the GOP side and we lose the majority immediately. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #43
"Negotiations are possible, pressuring or punishing them is not." Maybe, maybe not. KPN Jan 2022 #47
Tell me inthewind21 Jan 2022 #49
What can be done really? Sinema will face a primary challenger and AZ Dems are thinking of PortTack Jan 2022 #3
I donated when she ran for the Senate. Won't be making that mistake again. calimary Jan 2022 #17
I've gotta feelin Bernie will find a way. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2022 #4
By blaming Dems for people voting for Trump? LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #7
I doubt it. TexasTowelie Jan 2022 #13
Find a way to do what? Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #44
Bernie has spoken... bring it Bernie!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2022 #51
What "consequences" will get them to change? You don't punish. You deal. No punishment will work. LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #6
"consequences" are for poor people anyway ck4829 Jan 2022 #41
Nina Turner sezBiden needs to "gas up his jet" go to WV & AZ and move oasis Jan 2022 #9
I'm certain that Biden pays a lot of attention to Nina Turner for political advice. TexasTowelie Jan 2022 #15
I'm just glad a public figure is finally putting those two on blast. oasis Jan 2022 #16
But putting them on blast isn't going to help. It will only worsen things. You never get what you LENNY0229 Jan 2022 #24
Oh boy msfiddlestix Jan 2022 #32
Defeated in run for Marcia Fudge's vacated congressional seat in Ohio. nt oasis Jan 2022 #34
✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ n/t msfiddlestix Jan 2022 #37
Doubt Senators from AZ and WVA care much onenote Jan 2022 #10
"Prison?" PatrickforB asked hopefully... n/t PatrickforB Jan 2022 #18
.... KPN Jan 2022 #36
Their political careers, as "Democrats", must end Blue Owl Jan 2022 #19
Oh that is a great idea and then McConnell is back in charge. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #29
Newsflash inthewind21 Jan 2022 #50
God no, I will take them 100 times over handing the Senate to McConnell...check out the states Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #45
Am *there* now. UTUSN Jan 2022 #20
Sinema is finished. radius777 Jan 2022 #21
If Ruben Gallego runs against Sinema in the 2024 AZ Dem Senate primary, he will crush her. Celerity Jan 2022 #25
+1 Roisin Ni Fiachra Jan 2022 #28
+1. Those colors were shown a long time ago. radius777 Jan 2022 #39
That is not true...I believe firmly in voting rights but I can count and there are not enough votes. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #46
That is simply untrue...a GOP is just as likely to win...maybe more so since the state is playing Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #30
Of course it's a toss up state, that's what a purple state is. radius777 Jan 2022 #38
+1 Celerity Jan 2022 #40
In a midterm, it will be dicey. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #42
The entire concept of democracy would change... LiberatedUSA Jan 2022 #26
All they care about is how deep your pockets are! Emile Jan 2022 #27
The punishment will be applied to the citizens of Arizona and West Virginia, not their Senators Mr. Ected Jan 2022 #33

KPN

(15,718 posts)
12. You mean pay them more than what they're getting elsewhere?
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 12:32 AM
Jan 2022

It’s really just about stepping up and doing what is really needed. Deals as they are have not worked thus far. So inform me please, what sort of deal do you envision?

 

LENNY0229

(185 posts)
22. What sort of punishment do you envision? As if "consequences" are going to help.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 05:54 AM
Jan 2022

If we want them to "step up" on some good things then you find ways to get SOMETHING from them.
Like it or not, much as it sucks, Manchin and Sinema hold tremendous power since it is a 50-50 Senate.
Flogging them won't help. That will only worsen things. You don't get things from people by bashing them.
You sit dwn and ask them what they WILL support and, in a situation like this, give them as much
as possible with some asks in return. What I would do is promise to move on as many of their own priorities
as possible and ask what pieces of BBB they WOULD be willing to do if we move on as many of their
things as we can. Find ways to make deals and get SOMETHING accomplished and keep trying if there are setbacks.
Impress upon them the importance of getting SOMETHING done. Say we will try to get some R support too but can't promise any. Like it or not, as of now, they have tons of power. That is just the way it is. That's how the Senate works, and it's a 50-50 Senate.

But bashing them, threatening them, insulting them, etc. sure as all hell is only going to make them dig in deeper. You never ever get what you want from someone by bashing and threatening and insulting them. You keep plugging away on negotiations.

Takket

(21,888 posts)
2. would he like them flogged?
Sat Jan 15, 2022, 10:50 PM
Jan 2022

send to bed without supper?

spanked (forgot that, i think they'd both enjoy it)

sinema is finished at the next primary. manchin will be around until he quits. not much else can be done

KPN

(15,718 posts)
14. The executive branch has all kinds of tools that
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 12:35 AM
Jan 2022

can work to West Virginia and Arizona’s favor, or not. Seems pretty straightforward.

 

LENNY0229

(185 posts)
23. That means continuing NEGOTIATIONS and not punishing them which will only worsen the situation.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 05:56 AM
Jan 2022

KPN

(15,718 posts)
35. Only if the other party negotiates in good faith can you negotiate. If not,
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 11:51 AM
Jan 2022

then only other tools are available.

Demsrule86

(69,091 posts)
43. And Sinema and Manchin take a walk to the GOP side and we lose the majority immediately.
Tue Jan 18, 2022, 01:45 PM
Jan 2022

Negotiations are possible, pressuring or punishing them is not. I will say the child credit and paid leave will not be in the final bill...but there will be good stuff in it...such as improvements for the ACA, universal Pre-K...some climate control stuff and other good stuff.

KPN

(15,718 posts)
47. "Negotiations are possible, pressuring or punishing them is not." Maybe, maybe not.
Tue Jan 18, 2022, 02:17 PM
Jan 2022

Have we tried or even hinted at the latter?

I'll be frank with you. In my view, acting on "good stuff in it" thinking is a larger part of what has put us (us being middle and working class) in the socio-economic position we find ourselves in today -- unaffordable education, unaffordable health care, gross inequity in income distribution, millions of adult children living with their parents, many millions more needing to live with multiple room-mates in order to afford rent, the average adult today not being able to see a comfortable retirement future for themselves and all of the social problems and, yes, hatreds, that go along with those things.

So all of that plus, of course, the current threats to basic democracy and of potential right-wing authoritarian governance make Manchin and Sinema pretty damned frustrating.

As for M and S taking "a walk to to the GOP side" maybe they'd become I's instead in which case they could choose who to caucus with; and maybe they'd choose to caucus with Ds. Or maybe they wouldn't walk at all?

There's a lot of venting going on here at DU. Venting has a role to play in personal well-being. But that aside, as a consistent Democratic Party voter up and down the line for 50 years now, I'm entitled to my views on what position the Ds should take. And I should be able to state them without ridicule as some here at DU tend to do in response to those of us who are frustrated over what frankly has been a 50 year backslide in economic well-being of the middle and working class; a backslide that seems too-often related to a tendency to settle for less, triangulating and/or an overly cautious mindset when it comes to playing hardball.

PortTack

(32,935 posts)
3. What can be done really? Sinema will face a primary challenger and AZ Dems are thinking of
Sat Jan 15, 2022, 10:53 PM
Jan 2022

Last edited Sat Jan 15, 2022, 11:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Censuring her

Manchin..mr money bags...he doesn’t give a shit

calimary

(81,948 posts)
17. I donated when she ran for the Senate. Won't be making that mistake again.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 01:20 AM
Jan 2022

As far as Manchin goes - the best thing to do, seems to me, is to make him less relevant. Do your utmost to help elect more Democrats to the Senate. Above all else.

Well, that and down-balloters too. Anywhere you see a “D” by a candidate’s name.

Manchin is feeling like a king because he’s such a painfully pivotal vote - when the Senate is evenly split and EVERY single blasted vote counts and there’s NO margin for error.

So we need to take his power position away. We need to get enough “D’s” in there so that if Manchin threatens to make trouble, nobody will care, he won get anywhere near the press coverage he’s gotten lately (cuz it’ll be old news - “oh look, Manchin’s making threats again, Manchin’s being contrary again - yawn - what else is new?”) and it won’t make a damn bit of difference.

It’ll be “oh, him again…” (yawn)

TexasTowelie

(113,499 posts)
13. I doubt it.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 12:33 AM
Jan 2022

Manchin doesn't give a damn or respects what Bernie thinks or does. That has already been proven.

 

LENNY0229

(185 posts)
6. What "consequences" will get them to change? You don't punish. You deal. No punishment will work.
Sat Jan 15, 2022, 11:59 PM
Jan 2022

The more Biden "punishes" Manchin, the more he makes him flip to R and the more the folks back in WV like Manchin.

This person is completely off base and naive.

oasis

(49,917 posts)
16. I'm just glad a public figure is finally putting those two on blast.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 12:41 AM
Jan 2022

I’m no fan of Nina’s btw.

 

LENNY0229

(185 posts)
24. But putting them on blast isn't going to help. It will only worsen things. You never get what you
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 06:04 AM
Jan 2022

want from someone by blasting them. Keep negotiating. Find ways to get SOMETHING from them. Like it or not, much as it sucks, they hold the cards. It's a 50-50 Senate. It is what it is. Gotta keep plugging away at negotiations to get some wins.

msfiddlestix

(7,302 posts)
32. Oh boy
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 10:16 AM
Jan 2022

I've forgotten about Turner. I feel like she recently ran for a special election and lost against another Dem. Am I remembering right?

onenote

(43,212 posts)
10. Doubt Senators from AZ and WVA care much
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 12:25 AM
Jan 2022

about what a member of Congress from a +43 New York district thinks.

Demsrule86

(69,091 posts)
29. Oh that is a great idea and then McConnell is back in charge.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 10:02 AM
Jan 2022
I suggest you and everyone reading these words look at our Senate opportunities and lack thereof. We can't afford to lose two seats. And any punishment, they simply switch caucuses. No, we need to drop the child credit part and the paid leave part...we still get a great deal, and that will likely pass.

Demsrule86

(69,091 posts)
45. God no, I will take them 100 times over handing the Senate to McConnell...check out the states
Tue Jan 18, 2022, 01:49 PM
Jan 2022

where we have real opportunities. and consider decades out of power and what that would be to our party and our country.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
21. Sinema is finished.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 03:16 AM
Jan 2022

She's from a purple state that another Dem could win, and she has several incidents now (the curtsy, this recent speech, etc) that are easy to make into a commercial in a Dem primary. Note that Mark Kelly from the same state is not the problem for us that she is, neither is Warnock and Ossoff from an equally purple state in GA.

Manchin is from a deep red state and there is little we can do to him.

The old school Dems would dig up dirt on both of them and pull their strings ... wish we had some of that hardball mentality in this current party. Sinema and Manchin seem to have no fear of disrespecting a Dem President and derailing his agenda.

Celerity

(44,445 posts)
25. If Ruben Gallego runs against Sinema in the 2024 AZ Dem Senate primary, he will crush her.
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 06:12 AM
Jan 2022

Anyone (if, as is very likely, no voter bills are passed and we get trampled in the 2022 midterms), who still, at that point, says Sinema is the only viable, legit Dem to support in that primary is truly showing their real colours.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
39. +1. Those colors were shown a long time ago.
Mon Jan 17, 2022, 02:52 AM
Jan 2022

There is a segment of white voters in both parties who think things like voting rights are simply left-wing or black issues, and not mainstream American issues, and who actually cheer on Sinema/Manchin's maintaining of the filibuster.

Sinema has no political appeal. She thinks she's being mavericky like McCain but in reality she's just a wannabe with no natural base. The charismatic and qualified Gallego would destroy her in a primary.

Demsrule86

(69,091 posts)
46. That is not true...I believe firmly in voting rights but I can count and there are not enough votes.
Tue Jan 18, 2022, 01:50 PM
Jan 2022

Demsrule86

(69,091 posts)
30. That is simply untrue...a GOP is just as likely to win...maybe more so since the state is playing
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 10:04 AM
Jan 2022

games with the vote. It is a toss-up state.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
38. Of course it's a toss up state, that's what a purple state is.
Mon Jan 17, 2022, 02:43 AM
Jan 2022

The point of my post was that unlike in WV where Manchin is perhaps the only Dem who can win there - in AZ (being purple) any solid Dem can win there. It's not an easy win and will always be close but Dems have won statewide there in recent years (Sinema, Hobbs, Kelly).

Sinema has no natural base and is not really liked by anyone at this point. Someone like Rep. Ruben Gallego who is a Latino and a military veteran would crush her in the primary (as other posters noted above) and also have a better chance of defeating the Repub nominee in the general election than the clueless Sinema would. She basically has no political value to any particular constituency in her state, and her strategy or mirroring Manchin (whose situation is unique in his state) is simply stupid.

 

LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
26. The entire concept of democracy would change...
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 07:12 AM
Jan 2022

…if the President could punish legislators for not voting for their bills.

Of course in this instance it is a catch-22, cause by not voting for voting rights, democracy may be changing down the road anyway.

I am not confident in our situation, as it feels like there are no more detours off this bad stretch of highway.

Mr. Ected

(9,677 posts)
33. The punishment will be applied to the citizens of Arizona and West Virginia, not their Senators
Sun Jan 16, 2022, 10:22 AM
Jan 2022

And all the rest of the states, in the form of staggeringly inequitable and unfair voting practices as a result of their recalcistrance.

There may be no cure.

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