Manchin and Sinema Must Face 'Consequences' for Stalling Voting Rights, Democratic Rep Says

It’s really just about stepping up and doing what is really needed. Deals as they are have not worked thus far. So inform me please, what sort of deal do you envision?

If we want them to "step up" on some good things then you find ways to get SOMETHING from them.
Like it or not, much as it sucks, Manchin and Sinema hold tremendous power since it is a 50-50 Senate.
Flogging them won't help. That will only worsen things. You don't get things from people by bashing them.
You sit dwn and ask them what they WILL support and, in a situation like this, give them as much
as possible with some asks in return. What I would do is promise to move on as many of their own priorities
as possible and ask what pieces of BBB they WOULD be willing to do if we move on as many of their
things as we can. Find ways to make deals and get SOMETHING accomplished and keep trying if there are setbacks.
Impress upon them the importance of getting SOMETHING done. Say we will try to get some R support too but can't promise any. Like it or not, as of now, they have tons of power. That is just the way it is. That's how the Senate works, and it's a 50-50 Senate.

But bashing them, threatening them, insulting them, etc. sure as all hell is only going to make them dig in deeper. You never ever get what you want from someone by bashing and threatening and insulting them. You keep plugging away on negotiations.

You never are free of the bully if you continue roll over and let them bully.

send to bed without supper?

spanked (forgot that, i think they'd both enjoy it)

sinema is finished at the next primary. manchin will be around until he quits. not much else can be done

Pennsylvania
Wisconsin
Ohio
North Carolina
Florida

Next election.. that is

can work to West Virginia and Arizona’s favor, or not. Seems pretty straightforward.

then only other tools are available.

Negotiations are possible, pressuring or punishing them is not. I will say the child credit and paid leave will not be in the final bill...but there will be good stuff in it...such as improvements for the ACA, universal Pre-K...some climate control stuff and other good stuff.

Have we tried or even hinted at the latter?

I'll be frank with you. In my view, acting on "good stuff in it" thinking is a larger part of what has put us (us being middle and working class) in the socio-economic position we find ourselves in today -- unaffordable education, unaffordable health care, gross inequity in income distribution, millions of adult children living with their parents, many millions more needing to live with multiple room-mates in order to afford rent, the average adult today not being able to see a comfortable retirement future for themselves and all of the social problems and, yes, hatreds, that go along with those things.

So all of that plus, of course, the current threats to basic democracy and of potential right-wing authoritarian governance make Manchin and Sinema pretty damned frustrating.

As for M and S taking "a walk to to the GOP side" maybe they'd become I's instead in which case they could choose who to caucus with; and maybe they'd choose to caucus with Ds. Or maybe they wouldn't walk at all?

There's a lot of venting going on here at DU. Venting has a role to play in personal well-being. But that aside, as a consistent Democratic Party voter up and down the line for 50 years now, I'm entitled to my views on what position the Ds should take. And I should be able to state them without ridicule as some here at DU tend to do in response to those of us who are frustrated over what frankly has been a 50 year backslide in economic well-being of the middle and working class; a backslide that seems too-often related to a tendency to settle for less, triangulating and/or an overly cautious mindset when it comes to playing hardball.

How's that majority working out for you right now?

Censuring her

Manchin..mr money bags...he doesn’t give a shit

As far as Manchin goes - the best thing to do, seems to me, is to make him less relevant. Do your utmost to help elect more Democrats to the Senate. Above all else.

Well, that and down-balloters too. Anywhere you see a “D” by a candidate’s name.

Manchin is feeling like a king because he’s such a painfully pivotal vote - when the Senate is evenly split and EVERY single blasted vote counts and there’s NO margin for error.

So we need to take his power position away. We need to get enough “D’s” in there so that if Manchin threatens to make trouble, nobody will care, he won get anywhere near the press coverage he’s gotten lately (cuz it’ll be old news - “oh look, Manchin’s making threats again, Manchin’s being contrary again - yawn - what else is new?”) and it won’t make a damn bit of difference.

It’ll be “oh, him again…” (yawn)

Manchin doesn't give a damn or respects what Bernie thinks or does. That has already been proven.

The more Biden "punishes" Manchin, the more he makes him flip to R and the more the folks back in WV like Manchin.

This person is completely off base and naive.

to get those two primaried.

I’m no fan of Nina’s btw.

want from someone by blasting them. Keep negotiating. Find ways to get SOMETHING from them. Like it or not, much as it sucks, they hold the cards. It's a 50-50 Senate. It is what it is. Gotta keep plugging away at negotiations to get some wins.

I've forgotten about Turner. I feel like she recently ran for a special election and lost against another Dem. Am I remembering right?

about what a member of Congress from a +43 New York district thinks.

I suggest you and everyone reading these words look at our Senate opportunities and lack thereof. We can't afford to lose two seats. And any punishment, they simply switch caucuses. No, we need to drop the child credit part and the paid leave part...we still get a great deal, and that will likely pass.

McConnell is STILL in charge.

where we have real opportunities. and consider decades out of power and what that would be to our party and our country.

She's from a purple state that another Dem could win, and she has several incidents now (the curtsy, this recent speech, etc) that are easy to make into a commercial in a Dem primary. Note that Mark Kelly from the same state is not the problem for us that she is, neither is Warnock and Ossoff from an equally purple state in GA.

Manchin is from a deep red state and there is little we can do to him.

The old school Dems would dig up dirt on both of them and pull their strings ... wish we had some of that hardball mentality in this current party. Sinema and Manchin seem to have no fear of disrespecting a Dem President and derailing his agenda.

Anyone (if, as is very likely, no voter bills are passed and we get trampled in the 2022 midterms), who still, at that point, says Sinema is the only viable, legit Dem to support in that primary is truly showing their real colours.

There is a segment of white voters in both parties who think things like voting rights are simply left-wing or black issues, and not mainstream American issues, and who actually cheer on Sinema/Manchin's maintaining of the filibuster.

Sinema has no political appeal. She thinks she's being mavericky like McCain but in reality she's just a wannabe with no natural base. The charismatic and qualified Gallego would destroy her in a primary.

games with the vote. It is a toss-up state.

The point of my post was that unlike in WV where Manchin is perhaps the only Dem who can win there - in AZ (being purple) any solid Dem can win there. It's not an easy win and will always be close but Dems have won statewide there in recent years (Sinema, Hobbs, Kelly).

Sinema has no natural base and is not really liked by anyone at this point. Someone like Rep. Ruben Gallego who is a Latino and a military veteran would crush her in the primary (as other posters noted above) and also have a better chance of defeating the Repub nominee in the general election than the clueless Sinema would. She basically has no political value to any particular constituency in her state, and her strategy or mirroring Manchin (whose situation is unique in his state) is simply stupid.

…if the President could punish legislators for not voting for their bills.

Of course in this instance it is a catch-22, cause by not voting for voting rights, democracy may be changing down the road anyway.

I am not confident in our situation, as it feels like there are no more detours off this bad stretch of highway.

And all the rest of the states, in the form of staggeringly inequitable and unfair voting practices as a result of their recalcistrance.

There may be no cure.