Pence is getting way too much credit for not going along with the coup.

[fightforfreedom]

Pence knew what Trump was planning for weeks. He was asking people if it was legal, he was hoping it was legal. He knew it was not legal. He knew there was no fraud.

Why didn't Pence speak out, warn people? Because he is a scumbag just like the rest of them.

[panader0]

1. Not from me.

[Diamond_Dog]

2. Each and every one of them

Were deathly afraid of incurring Trump’s wrath. So many grown adults comprising a cowardly cult of spineless fraidy cats I’ve ever seen. You’d think maybe one or two could have been brave and called it out for the good of the country. No, they were all afraid of an ignorant traitorous bully.

[wnylib]

17. An ignorant, traitorous bully who is backed

by a Russian leader who arranges assassinations in countries outside of Russia. Sure, nothing to fear there.

[fightforfreedom]

3. When you see a coup being planned and say nothing.

You are as guilty as the people planning the coup.

[krkaufman]

19. Concur

Hopefully he’ll feel some accountability, and the same goes for those fake electors who signed the fraudulent forms that cleverly included the “backup” disclaimer. They clearly understood the intended purpose of the fraudulent documents, so they shouldn’t escape the conspiracy net.

[BlueJac]

4. Just as bad as the rest of them!

[MineralMan]

5. And yet, he did not go along with the coup.

He is a dickhead Republican, but he did not do what Trump told him to do. Instead, he announced the confirmation of the electoral college vote from the podium that night. In the end, he did the right thing.

That fact remains.

It is also likely that he was the one who told the military to get the National Guard in there to end the insurrection, which they did.

[fightforfreedom]

6. This is true, however he could have stopped it before it took place.

All he had to do was speak out. He kept his mouth shut and put many peoples lives in danger, including himself and his family. Some people did die.

[MineralMan]

7. Perhaps he could have stopped it. I don't know, actually.

The persistent story about him refusing to get into a Secret Service vehicle, however, could indicate that he feared for his life had he blown the whistle on Trump's plan. Again, I don't know, but neither does anyone else know, except perhaps for Pence.

However, on January 6, the final outcome was a confirmation of the electoral votes. In the end, that is what matters.

Pence is finished, in terms of any political future. He no longer has any credibility as a potential candidate for anything. I'm just freaking fine with that, frankly.

I suggest that we leave it at that, unless Pence decides to tell all to a grand jury. That could happen, although I believe it is unlikely to.

In the end, Pence did his job on January 6.

[Rebl2]

13. That's

what I wonder-if he feared for his life. He’s no hero though.

[MineralMan]

26. Nor am I calling him a hero. He is not that.

Not at all.

[FoxNewsSucks]

32. "In the end, Pence did his job on January 6."

...because he had exhausted all possible ways to comply with tRump, including asking Quayle's opinion. Not because it was the right thing. Even Quayle is given too much credit by many. He didn't say "Mike, that is wrong and illegal", he said "you have no wiggle room". They're both republicon dickheads.

I think he probably did fear for his life. I also think he didn't go along with MF45 in the first place because he didn't trust any tRumps and expected to be used as the scapegoat if he made the attempt and it didn't work out.

[Escurumbele]

37. I think he feared for his life and that is why he did not get in the car, remember that the people

who were in charge of the limousine were not the usual drivers, he said "I am not getting in there, you guys are going to stay here" (you guys meaning, the usual drivers), so I don' think he did it out of patriotism but to save his life. Imagine paying allegiance to a SOB (trump, of course) while knowing the guy will go at any length, including killing you, just to preserve his stay in the White House, paying allegiance to a crook who you know very well doesn't give a crap about you. Stockholm Syndrome all the way.

I don't think he did it out pf patriotism. I always doubted about republican patriotism, there was always a slight doubt that "maybe" they had a little bit of patriotism, that small doubt is gone, I am 100% convinced that republicans do not care for their country, and will gladly sell it to whomever offers the best price.

[Demsrule86]

51. Had he gone along with it, his life would not have been in danger.

[Turbineguy]

9. Perhaps by not doing more to stop it

we ended up with more evidence to work with.

I don't think that was his purpose, it was an unintended outcome.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. This is the ultimate case where the bottom line matters most

Ultimately Pence vetoed the coup, after flirting with it for months. He also refused to get into the car when told to by Secret Service agents, knowing that had he been taken away from the capital his capacity to uphold the constitution would likely have ended. He also showed up for Biden's inauguration, fully participating in what remained of the centuries old American tradition of a peaceful transfer of power.

Pence is light years away from being a knight in shining honor, for all the reasons the OP mentions and more. But when the chips were ultimately down, when the final call was made, Pence came down on the right side for democracy, which the history books will duly note, and deservedly so.

[Escurumbele]

39. I wrote above why he didn't get in the car. He didn't get in the car, not out of patriotism of long

thought about what it would mean to leave the Capitol and the problem it would create for the count, he didn't get in the car because the people driving the car were not the usual secret service people that drove his car, he did it out of self preservation knowing that he could not put past trump to have him killed.

[keithbvadu2]

42. Hello, Mikey.

Perhaps he saw the movie.

[CommonHumanity]

15. Wrong reason

He did the "right" thing ONLY because he believed he couldn't get away with the wrong thing. He wanted to cooperate with the plan. He consulted with Quayle to see if the plan could feasibly be pulled off. Dan Quayle, may I repeat - Dan effing Quayle - advised he could not get away with it. It was not only Quayle that Trump consulted. As reported in the NYT on 1/5/21, he also spent hours consulting with lawyers and parliamentarians and promised the Slobfather that he "would keep studying the issue up until the final hours before the joint session of Congress began at 1 pm".

[MineralMan]

27. Perhaps so, but he ended up doing the right thing.

Historically, that is all that matters in the end.

He may have wanted to keep Trump in office, but he knew that he could not. He got that confirmed by others, and then stepped up in the end. Why, I do not know. Perhaps he was in fear for his life, or perhaps he was fearful of history's eventual tale. I don't know. The only thing I know was that he stood up an presided over the peaceful transfer of power, as the Constitution and tradition required.

Now, if he goes away forever, that will be just fine with me.

[Escurumbele]

41. "Historically, that is all that matters in the end." Sorry to disagree with that statement.

It does matter why you took the action you took, even when the result is the correct one. With Pence it shows there was no other action he could have taken, he also feared for his life, but as we know because of his asking around to Dan Quayle and who knows who else, he would have gladly taken the other route if he thought he could.

We are all glad his position did not allow any other action but to count the votes legally, but I don't believe for a second that he did it out of patriotism, and history must show that he tried to find a reason for not doing so. To me, that maters, it shows the man was willing to overturn the people's will, which he would have done if the law allowed it.

"Now, if he goes away forever, that will be just fine with me." This we can all agree with.

[Demsrule86]

52. In one of the greatest ironies of my lifetime...Pence may very well have stopped the insurrection

and literally saved Democracy. Hard to believe. But had he refused to certify the election,l am not sure Trump wouldn't have succeeded.

[duhneece]

22. I'm with you

For now anyway, that’s enough that he didn’t do TFG’s bidding this one important time.

[Demsrule86]

50. He stopped the Trump insurrection cold when he certified the election and did not send it to the

house. And he knew he would be threatened as would his family, I have to admire that. Politically, I don't like him.

[Tommymac]

8. Mother told him to sit in the corner, play with his blocks and be quiet.

Absolutely right on.

Pence is ass deep in this insurrection too. He needs to serve time just like the rest of the insurrectionists from top to bottom.

But of coarse the M$M is going to make him out as a 'hero'. Fuck that noise.

[peggysue2]

10. I Agree

This repetition of how Pence saved Democracy is a step too far because of the man's foreknowledge of the events, his hesitation in the moment (can I really do this, get away with this??), even his telephone call with Quayle where he beseeched the former VP for advice, and then whined about the pressure he was under.

Do I throw Democracy into the dustbin? Or not?

These are not the actions of a hero. More like a weasel trying to save his own skin.

[Tomconroy]

11. I tend to disagree. There were a number of Republicans

who opposed Trump's coup and I think they deserve some credit, including Pence.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. I think Pence was conflicted knowing the role he was being asked to play in the coup

he would be reviled if he went along, and his political career would end if it failed.

If it succeeded he would be replaced with trumpkin.

But the OP is correct, he still must answer why he didn't opt out strongly. 25A was discussed. Perhaps, you have to give him this, he was fearful for his safety. He sure appeared, from all accounts, to figure that aspect out real quick on Jan 6.

[ecstatic]

16. Honestly, I think pence and the other repubs who blocked the coup

would have gone along with it had it been someone other than trump.

[gab13by13]

18. Pence could have done way worse.

I'm sure he was threatened a lot more forcibly behind the scenes.

[forgotmylogin]

33. I suspect Pence would be classified as lawful-neutral in D&D.

I don't like him a bit, but I believe he wanted to follow the law correctly and not cause problems with his political/social circles, which is why he doesn't speak out about it. I mean, he got sage advice from Dan Quayle...

He's the villain's minion in a movie who has been burned too many times and decided to ultimately look out for himself in the last reel. 45 obviously proved he wouldn't send a tweet or call off the mob to save Pence's life, so Pence quietly did what he believed was in his (and Congress members') best interest. That doesn't make Pence a complete turncoat hero; he just decided he was done with TFG's shenanigans and didn't feel like being a complete traitor to the constitution.

[rizlaplus]

20. He had one simple, albeit important, job to do ...

.... and he asked Dan Quayle for advice on that! [I couldn't remember Quayle's name so I googled "Vice President potatoes" to refresh my memory.

Pence has no backbone whatsoever and was quite well aware of what Trump and his cronies were planning.

[Pluvious]

38. Mike Pants decided the coup would eventually fail, and he'd be screwed nt.

[PatrickforB]

21. I'll go with that. Pence is an odious anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, pro-war, climate change denying,

profit-over-people, pro-corporate, lying worm.

Yes, like Liz Cheney, a person with equally odious policy positions, Pence stood up against a coup. OK - that is a good thing, and he did arguably contribute to the failure of Trump's coup.

But he is still an evangelical liar of the first degree who would cheerfully see us enslaved to debt, and living under a privatized, deregulated theocracy with no safety nets, no health insurance, no abortion, no services for the poor or homeless, and a systemic routing of the taxes we pay straight into the pockets of billionaires.

There is very little good about Mike Pence. He is just another evangelical sociopath. He reportedly kept telling fellow Republicans who were horrified by the utterly corrupt incompetent failure that was Donald Trump to 'stay the course.' I guess we can breathe a sigh of relief that 'staying the course' did not include supporting a treasonous coup. But that is as far as it should go.

BECAUSE I'M TIRED OF SAILING ON THE GOP'S COURSE. IT SUCKS AND WE NEED TO RESET OUR TACK TO PORT, BIG TIME.

[KS Toronado]

23. I feel the problem with Pence

is that he's always been a follower and not a leader. A leader would have drawn a line in the sand and got all
of MSM in on what was going on. But he's a pipsqueak follower who was overwhelmed by what was going on
around him and he knew it was wrong. His solution was quietly having some things rewritten to ensure he
didn't count the fake electors. He was probably aware his political career was over no matter what he did,
and he sided with democracy not fascism because he did know right from wrong, at least in this situation.

[Gore1FL]

24. He would have done it if he thought he could get away with it.

I am pretty sure if Dan Quayle hadn't admonished him, he would have "driven the stake into the heart of the Federal Republic.*" I don't know what the consequences of that would have ultimately been.


* I used this quote because it came from someone in the Freedom caucus. It tells me two things. 1> At least one in the Freedom Caucus knows what this was. 2> At least one in the Freedom Caucus thinks a vampire makes good metaphor for our government and nation.

[Whiskeytide]

25. Look, I'll kill, rape, steal and lie to be ...

… in your gang. But I’m not going to eat that puppy. I have standards.

[MLAA]

28. I am happy he continues to get credit for stopping 'the steal'.

Every time he is publicly praised for his intervention another maga melts down and swears he/she/they will never vote for Pence for any office 😬

[padah513]

29. Yes. He moved heaven and earth

Trying to find a way

[fightforfreedom]

30. Pence and Meadows are two of a kind.

Spineless cowards who hold crazy, bizarre beliefs that are flat out wrong.

[Demsrule86]

53. Meadows was all for the insurrection and helped plan it so not true. We should give credit where

credit is due.

[peppertree]

31. In any case, he's probably through politically

90% of Repugs literally want him to hang.

[SKKY]

34. Way, way too much credit. Concur 100%.

[Escurumbele]

35. You are 100% correct, he asked for advice from Dan Quayle to see if he could do it and...

if he had found a way to do it he would have done it.

What I think its happening is that Democrats are praising him so that he will collaborate, which he most probably will not.

Pence is not only a poodle of trump, but he is a total disgrace as a human being. People like him try to convince everyone he is a "man of god" (whatever that means), but to me, those people who preach about their proximity to god and their religion are not to be trusted, good people don't have to convince anyone they are good, their actions will speak for themselves.

[dlk]

36. Agreed

Pence is weak and no hero. He did his part to sabotage the election, even if he didn’t go all the way.

[KPN]

40. The only reason he didn't go along is he weenied out.

He decided his neck was more important to him than TFGs and saved it after calculating that TFG wouldn’t be able to pull it off.

[FakeNoose]

43. Exactly right - if he had blown the whistle THEN he'd be a hero

He didn't blow the whistle, he kept quiet and played along like a good little VP. Until it was too late to stop anything, and then he backed away.

I've wondered to myself why didn't Pence let everyone know what Chump & Giuliani were planning? Then I realized, it was because he thought Chump had a 50% chance of getting away with it. Pence wanted to make sure he was still in the picture and still VP in case Chump managed to steal the election.

That's not heroic, that's the worst form of cowardly behavior.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

45. This has been a theme sine Pissolini became POTUS. So much horrifically awful behavior led to

much high praise for actions simply because they weren't as terrible as they might have been.

[BobTheSubgenius]

44. Apparently, the bar for "patriotic hero" has been lowered significantly from what I remember.

Now, it seems like "not committing treason" is pretty praiseworthy. At least, for him and his ilk.

[andym]

46. Pence did the right thing, amd thwarted the will of a meglomaniacal President

His life was in danger from the mob, and may have been in danger from the President. let's see what the documents turn up. Trump's other toadies appear to have been at Trump's beck and call. Who could Pence even trust in a position of power? No matter how much we dislike his politics Pence showed courage when it was needed and helped avert a coup. Sometimes doing one's job when under adverse conditions is heroic.

[Skittles]

48. LOL

Pence kissed Trump ass, enabling him for years and only did the right thing in the end when really he did not have a choice. No points from me for that piece of shit.

[andym]

59. Being the toady he was, Pence gets extra points from me

Last edited Mon Jan 24, 2022, 01:03 PM - Edit history (2)

because it was so against his character to disagree with his leader and when the critical moment arrived stand up for what is right. The way Pence would look at Trump like a dog admiring his all-powerful master. I would never predicted that out of all Trump's men, that it would be Pence who would break with Simple Simon Trump and put an end to Trump's dream: the coup that would leave him in power.

[Skittles]

60. do you not get this part

IT WAS NEVER GOING TO WORK, AND PENCE KNEW THAT

he did the only thing he could do

maybe next time when the traitors have better planning and their savior isn't a pathetic man-baby, it will work

[andym]

61. Nobody really knew whether it world work or not

Because it could have. Especially if the mob interceded in the way Trump wanted. Trump could have created a constitutional crisis So we disagree on Pence because we disagree on this point.

Of course, Pence could have believed it would fail, but his political career would have been enhanced if he went along with his master anyways, and ruined if he didn't- as we can tell from the state of the GOP right now, where Pence is persona non grata. So he still gets credit, because he sacrificed his political future in the GOP.

And the fact it could it have succeeded has direct applicability to the seriousness of the criminal charges against Trump's men. It makes the possibility of sedition charges succeeding more likely.

[Skittles]

47. the bar for repukes is set really, REALLY low

so when one of them does something half-ass decent it is seen as a HUGE accomplishment

[Demsrule86]

49. I disagree. Those who go against Trump are targeted as are their families...no doubt in my

mind had Pence got into the car with those unknown Secret Service Agents or whoever they were, he would be dead. He did the right thing and that is something I have to admire. Pence's actions stopped the insurrection cold in terms of not stopping the certification and eventually sending the elction to the House where Trump could very well have won.

[Emile]

55. He refused to invoke the 25th amendment, thus he's guilty tool

[Kaleva]

56. Are you addressing a problem that doesn't exist here at DU.

[GoodRaisin]

57. Pence is a coward. He sat cowardly for 4 years doing nothing about the

abomination in the White House. Fortunately it was that cowardice that drove him not to jump off the cliff himself.

[USALiberal]

58. Nope!! Nt