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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:57 PM Oct 2012

The Billy Graham bashing threads are misguided

his son has been pulling an Edith Wilson act (look it up) for years. The man had a great (and earlier not so great) record on inclusion and pluralism. His son is a total dick and also behind all of this closed minded crap. Again, google Edith Wilson.

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The Billy Graham bashing threads are misguided (Original Post) arely staircase Oct 2012 OP
Yeah you make a good point. The man is not in the position to be taking the leadership role... hrmjustin Oct 2012 #1
Bullsht.... Logical Oct 2012 #2
Figures he would have said that. And like his friend Reagan he did nothing to help Aids patients... hrmjustin Oct 2012 #3
i don't defend any such comment, especially unsourced but here is a pretty good summary arely staircase Oct 2012 #7
Here's your damn source Logical Oct 2012 #10
I can bash him since he bashed the Jews CreekDog Oct 2012 #21
+1000. It was the one chance to see how Billy acted behind closed doors and we saw he was a Bigot. slampoet Oct 2012 #28
Still... piechartking Oct 2012 #4
thank you for narrowing my choices for me arely staircase Oct 2012 #9
He is a Racist, he is no better than Sununu , probably worse because he claims to be some moral JI7 Oct 2012 #5
Billy Graham was never for inclusion or pluralism. grantcart Oct 2012 #6
good point, and remembering McGovern , there WERE people who fought on the right side JI7 Oct 2012 #13
Dead. On. Le Taz Hot Oct 2012 #27
He is America's pope quinnox Oct 2012 #8
Unlike father Rocky888 Oct 2012 #11
Ok but riddle me this. Tutonic Oct 2012 #12
Ehh. He's been another big time charlatan, pushing his snake oil on the ignorant masses. Arugula Latte Oct 2012 #14
I disagree. If you heard the nixon tapes, he had no problem bashing the Jews with nixon. still_one Oct 2012 #15
that is the main reason for my qualifier for his early career arely staircase Oct 2012 #16
early career ? he was in his 50s JI7 Oct 2012 #17
his anti-semitism wasn't in his early career, it was in the 1970's with Nixon CreekDog Oct 2012 #29
Bollocks. Daemonaquila Oct 2012 #18
Yes, by the incredibly low standards set by backward bigots and morons he was awesome. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #19
I have to admit I'm a little hypocritical about my prejudice against evangelicals liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #20
The man is a homophobic bigot FreeState Oct 2012 #22
just like Brigham Young was a racist bigot CreekDog Oct 2012 #30
He encouraged Nixon to increase the bombing in Nam Ichingcarpenter Oct 2012 #23
So what? Jesus also wanted us to bomb the North Vietnamese dikes. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #24
You should make a small edit to your post "Billy Graham is misguided" CreekDog Oct 2012 #25
He's a disgusting bigot. He's always been a disgusting bigot. You want to go for cali Oct 2012 #26
????? sofia14x Oct 2012 #31
 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
1. Yeah you make a good point. The man is not in the position to be taking the leadership role...
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:03 AM
Oct 2012

... in this. His children are mean spoiled brats that are not Christ like.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
3. Figures he would have said that. And like his friend Reagan he did nothing to help Aids patients...
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:07 AM
Oct 2012

.... until he was forced too.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
7. i don't defend any such comment, especially unsourced but here is a pretty good summary
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:15 AM
Oct 2012

of a complex life that I wil not as easily as you force to fit my stereotypes.

Politics

Graham is a registered member of the Democratic Party.[35] In 1960 he was opposed to the candidacy of John F. Kennedy because he was Catholic, and worked "behind the scenes" to encourage influential Protestant ministers to speak out against him.[36] Graham met with a conference of Protestant ministers in Montreux, Switzerland during the 1960 campaign, to discuss their mobilizing congregations to defeat Kennedy. He did not comment publicly on the election.[37] According to the PBS Frontline program, God in America (2010), Episode 5, Graham also organized a meeting in September 1960 of hundreds of Protestant ministers in Washington, DC to this purpose; Norman Vincent Peale led the meeting.[36] This was shortly before Kennedy's speech on the separation of church and state in Houston, Texas, which was considered to be successful in meeting concerns of many voters.

Graham leaned toward the Republicans during the presidency of Richard Nixon whom he had met and befriended as vice president under Dwight Eisenhower.[17] He did not completely ally himself with the later religious right, saying that Jesus did not have a political party.[7] He has given his support to various political candidates over the years.[17]

He refused to join Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority in 1979, saying: "I'm for morality, but morality goes beyond sex to human freedom and social justice. We as clergy know so very little to speak with authority on the Panama Canal or superiority of armaments. Evangelists cannot be closely identified with any particular party or person. We have to stand in the middle in order to preach to all people, right and left. I haven't been faithful to my own advice in the past. I will be in the future."[25]

According to a 2006 Newsweek interview, "For Graham, politics is a secondary to the Gospel.... When Newsweek asked Graham whether ministers—whether they think of themselves as evangelists, pastors or a bit of both—should spend time engaged with politics, he replied: 'You know, I think in a way that has to be up to the individual as he feels led of the Lord. A lot of things that I commented on years ago would not have been of the Lord, I'm sure, but I think you have some—like communism, or segregation, on which I think you have a responsibility to speak out.'"[38]

In 2012, Graham publicly endorsed the Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney.[39] Shortly after, references to Mormonism as a cult were removed from Graham's website.[40][41]

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
21. I can bash him since he bashed the Jews
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 03:29 AM
Oct 2012

caught on a Nixon tape.

sounds like you want to believe a fairy tale about Billy Graham rather than the truth.

slampoet

(5,032 posts)
28. +1000. It was the one chance to see how Billy acted behind closed doors and we saw he was a Bigot.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:56 AM
Oct 2012

case closed.

piechartking

(617 posts)
4. Still...
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:08 AM
Oct 2012

You can make the case to Christians you know about this whole snafu:

Put it in simple terms about their choices:

1) You actually believe your own leaders and principles, and won't vote for a Mormon because you think it goes against your religion. OR

2) You admit that your beliefs are shit and winning a secular election is more important than what the majority of your church thinks is correct. (In which case, aren't you shitting on your religion, then?) OR

3) You can see that your side holds its own principles in disdain (whenever there's something TRULY important going on - like a Presidential election) and vote Obama (or just stay home).

JI7

(89,249 posts)
5. He is a Racist, he is no better than Sununu , probably worse because he claims to be some moral
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:09 AM
Oct 2012

leader.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
6. Billy Graham was never for inclusion or pluralism.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:15 AM
Oct 2012


Billy Graham preached a single intolerant path to salvation.

More to the point as one of the leading bible thumping voices, ultimately the greatest, to rise out of the South he could have had an impact on the beatings, the lynchings and the entire civil rights struggle.

He never said one god damn word about it during the 60s and we now know from the tapes that he was clearly not only a racist but an antisemtic sob.

Billy Graham was a superficial bible thumper who preached a non biblical myth of personal salvation that was consistent with a growing individualist consumer society but had very little to do with first century Christianity.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
13. good point, and remembering McGovern , there WERE people who fought on the right side
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:23 AM
Oct 2012

and they are the ones who deserve credit and respect.

Fuck Billy Graham, fucking bigoted piece of shit.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
27. Dead. On.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 06:50 AM
Oct 2012

And this re the 1960's Civil Rights Movement . . . . "He never said one god damn word about it during the 60s and we now know from the tapes that he was clearly not only a racist but an antisemtic sob. "

Catholic priests, clergy from other protestant denominations, rabbis ALL joined in in the Civil Rights marches. Where was Graham? Cuddling up to Nixon.

Billy Graham started out as a revivalist preacher -- the hellfire and brimstone type that USED to be the fringe in this country right up until the time the Republicans brought them in in 1980 to help elect Reagan. Now, not only won't they go away they're getting elected!

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
8. He is America's pope
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:17 AM
Oct 2012

I got to give him his due for that. The guy is like the pope in terms of his status and influence, but for America. I can respect this, he has been at this a long, long time. I don't have to agree with his religion to give him credit for this.

Rocky888

(297 posts)
11. Unlike father
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
Oct 2012

He is only about money and power. I still say, any church organization preaching politics should start paying taxes?

Tutonic

(2,522 posts)
12. Ok but riddle me this.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:22 AM
Oct 2012

Has Billy been abandoned by his legal and ministry advisors? I can't believe that he handed the reigns entirely to Franklin. Billy may be be frail and feeble but I believe that he still has his lucid moments. Franklin was never a bright child but I don't think that he would have washed the site of its reference to Mormonism asa Cult without some approval by Billy or his advisors.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
29. his anti-semitism wasn't in his early career, it was in the 1970's with Nixon
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
Oct 2012

and you're 100% wrong to refer to people who call out Billy Graham's bigotry as "bashing".

you do realize you have bashed DUers, don't you?

 

Daemonaquila

(1,712 posts)
18. Bollocks.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:41 AM
Oct 2012

All bible-thumpers, especially those who practice that filthy art on TV and radio, would never be missed if they mysteriously fell into a pit if quick-lime some dark night.

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
19. Yes, by the incredibly low standards set by backward bigots and morons he was awesome.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:52 AM
Oct 2012

He worked tirelessly to make American life suck, but there were people who were worse.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
20. I have to admit I'm a little hypocritical about my prejudice against evangelicals
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 02:03 AM
Oct 2012

I try to come off as tolerant of all faiths but the truth is I am mistrustful of evangelicals and I will tell you why. Underneath their niceties, their agenda is ALWAYS to convert. I know. My father has been after me and my kids for years. It doesn't matter how nice they come off their ultimate agenda is to convert you. And their attitude that its okay if you don't convert now because in the end everyone will bow down to God. This is especially true of how they feel toward Jews. They play nice with Jews now but they know in their hearts that when the time comes even the Jews will bow down to God. It is so condescending. Do I think Billy Graham was inclusive and pluralist? No. I don't.

FreeState

(10,572 posts)
22. The man is a homophobic bigot
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 03:50 AM
Oct 2012

I could care less what he was, what matters is today and the future.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bigot

bigot
noun /ˈbɪg.ət/ [C] disapproving

Definition
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong


Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
23. He encouraged Nixon to increase the bombing in Nam
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:14 AM
Oct 2012

He encouraged Nixon to increase the bombing. In April 1969, he sent a thirteen-page letter to Nixon titled, The Confidential Missionary Plan for Ending the Vietnam War. Graham wrote:


"There are tens of thousands of North Vietnamese defectors to bomb and invade the north. Especially let them bomb the dikes which could over night destroy the economy of North Vietnam." (p. 109--From Richard M. Nixon Presidential Materials, National Archive)"There are tens of thousands of North Vietnamese defectors to bomb and invade the north. Especially let them bomb the dikes which could over night destroy the economy of North Vietnam." (p. 109--From Richard M. Nixon Presidential Materials, National Archive)



Bombing the dikes would have resulted in the deaths of a million civilians and destroyed the nation's agricultural system. Bothwell points out that according the Crimes of War Project that this would have amounted to a war crime. Hardly the suggestion of a man of peace.

Graham advised presidents on everything from foreign policy to selection of vice presidents to legislation.


http://www.shuckandjive.org/2007/12/billy-graham-prince-of-war.html

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
24. So what? Jesus also wanted us to bomb the North Vietnamese dikes.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:17 AM
Oct 2012

Or so I have to assume... why else would Billy Graham have supported such a thing?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. He's a disgusting bigot. He's always been a disgusting bigot. You want to go for
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 05:22 AM
Oct 2012

revisionist history, go for it. I won't shut up about his vile history.

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