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Does anyone really think that NATO will risk a nuclear holocaust if Russia were (Original Post) totodeinhere Mar 2022 OP
exactly. drray23 Mar 2022 #1
You are wrong. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #3
You are wrong. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2022 #7
2 words for you, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #12
I guess that a cogent argument. nt. drray23 Mar 2022 #14
Your whole argument is bullshit, you've been pushing this crap lately, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #21
I hope they do drray23 Mar 2022 #24
When Russia threatened France a few days ago, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #30
yes true. drray23 Mar 2022 #39
All very good points, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #43
Many NATO countries are also nuclear powers SoonerPride Mar 2022 #32
Exactly. And that why it would be a holocaust. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #35
Well that may happen. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #40
.... MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #54
Cockroaches are already sentient. Just not very much. Beware of binary thinking. Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2022 #89
+1. Kremlin propaganda is everywhere lately. radius777 Mar 2022 #75
+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #77
No way. Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #20
If Putin attacks any NATO member they will defend them SoonerPride Mar 2022 #2
No wonder the Doomsday Clock is now set at 100 seconds to midnight. n/t totodeinhere Mar 2022 #6
Maybe so. But Putin knows NATO means business. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #10
seems slow eShirl Mar 2022 #46
Agreed. I would have it set at one second to midnight if it were up to me. n/t totodeinhere Mar 2022 #100
Because we are willing to defend ourselves? Happy Hoosier Mar 2022 #66
We should just surrender now.... TheRealNorth Mar 2022 #87
It was set at 100 seconds to midnight on January 20th. Jedi Guy Mar 2022 #93
We all know about article 5. But would you consider taking a chance on being totodeinhere Mar 2022 #17
So you arguing that NATO countries would sacrifice other NATO members? SoonerPride Mar 2022 #23
I don't know exactly what NATO would do. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #38
Article 5 does NOT mean that we nuke Moscow if Russia attacks a NATO country. LudwigPastorius Mar 2022 #63
Of course. But a conventional response to a Russian attack could cause Putin totodeinhere Mar 2022 #65
He may have threatened it, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #71
That's really our best hope for survival, honestly. Jedi Guy Mar 2022 #97
Absolutely NATO would respond because... Justice matters. Mar 2022 #72
I think that you bet wrong, but it would do no good to win that bet. Dan Mar 2022 #4
All depends on how his Ukraine adventure turns out calguy Mar 2022 #5
That's a fool's bet. WheelWalker Mar 2022 #8
Sorry for acting like a fool, but I do not want to see a thermonuclear war. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #22
He may try to order a nuclear strike, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #37
I hope that someone would stop Putin, but I don't know if I want to totodeinhere Mar 2022 #99
The inthewind21 Mar 2022 #98
Over the many years I have been on DU I have made similar comments. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #102
NATO would respond with overwhelming conventional force NickB79 Mar 2022 #9
I think NATO will react quickly and decisively to any attack on member nations Torchlight Mar 2022 #11
I worry because the fighter jets are being dispatched from Poland Walleye Mar 2022 #13
NATO will respond. EndlessWire Mar 2022 #15
nothing apparently. drray23 Mar 2022 #19
It looks like the OP is arguing that NATO should not respond if Putin invades a NATO country. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #29
I think he is worried as I am to a degree drray23 Mar 2022 #33
The escalation from conventional to nuclear war may indeed trigger a response. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #27
Fallout from a small tactical nuke would probably be limited. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #34
Your concern is noted. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #45
Why are you helping Putin push his nuclear threats? lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #16
Oh come on. I doubt if there is any chance whatsoever that Putin will read my totodeinhere Mar 2022 #26
If they dont respond, it's the end of NATO Beastly Boy Mar 2022 #18
+1000 NATO literally has one function. If it doesn't do its job, NATO is doomed, lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #25
A nuclear war would probably also mean the end of NATO. n/t totodeinhere Mar 2022 #28
Continuing to appease a Putin that is willing Hav Mar 2022 #69
No more and no less than an end to Moscow as well nt Torchlight Mar 2022 #70
Not really. NATO is well prepared to win such a war, radius777 Mar 2022 #85
Probably. But repelling agression would not. Beastly Boy Mar 2022 #90
There's No Risk, Putin is Full of Shit and He Will be Erased from Existence if he Attacks a NATO Beetwasher. Mar 2022 #31
Actually NATO is ill equipped to respond to a Russian attack. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #41
The US is a NATO member and we spend what the next 10 countries do COMBINED SoonerPride Mar 2022 #42
Yes, but it would take months for us to move substantial military force to totodeinhere Mar 2022 #48
Too late for what? SoonerPride Mar 2022 #49
I would imagine we have bases of some sort Mr.Bill Mar 2022 #94
How long do you think it would take to fly a squadron of bomber jets from the US to the Baltics? Crunchy Frog Mar 2022 #88
US + allies: 1.04 trillion. Russia: 0.07 trillion lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #51
"The US Army is preparing to fight in Europe, but can it even get there?" totodeinhere Mar 2022 #56
Awesome; you're really on a roll with the concerns there. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #57
Not true. Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #52
You are fooling yourself. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #62
Bullshit Beetwasher. Mar 2022 #59
With the Ukraine Invasion, NATO Is Suddenly Vulnerable totodeinhere Mar 2022 #64
Concern Noted LOL Beetwasher. Mar 2022 #68
Corollary: with the Ukraine Invasion, Russia *is* vulnerable. Torchlight Mar 2022 #73
NATO is more united and stronger than ever. radius777 Mar 2022 #86
Why do you have sarisataka Mar 2022 #36
Biden is only one NATO leader. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #44
And you have yet another concern. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #55
whats wrong with analyzing possible bad scenarios ? drray23 Mar 2022 #61
What NATO countries would back out? sarisataka Mar 2022 #80
Apparently wishful thinking. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #47
Oh come on. I didn't say that I wish for Biden to be out totodeinhere Mar 2022 #50
Nicolae Ceaușescu was not limited to two terms as well. Torchlight Mar 2022 #74
I hope that Putin has the same fate as Ceaușescu. totodeinhere Mar 2022 #101
I bet Putin is thinking... AntiFascist Mar 2022 #53
He may believe that fantasy, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #60
I feel like NATO will be happy to follow the US into a war. If they didn't flying_wahini Mar 2022 #58
I wouldn't use the word "happy", but willing, yes. n/t Mr.Bill Mar 2022 #95
What's to prevent him from demanding he become our president if he threatens to nuke us if we don't DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2022 #67
Or even worse, demands Trump be president. Mr.Bill Mar 2022 #96
They will risk it. NO doubt. Nuclear brinkmanship as last seen during the Cuban Missile Crisis andym Mar 2022 #76
NATO is the defense force of Western civilization. radius777 Mar 2022 #78
you are wrong Skittles Mar 2022 #79
While I don't know what would happen, Music Man Mar 2022 #81
So Putin is free to invade France and the UK? Irish_Dem Mar 2022 #82
It doesn't matter so much what Putin thinks Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #83
I don't think that Putin wants WWIII with all of its nuclear implications Chainfire Mar 2022 #84
So we let Putin rule the world? hamsterjill Mar 2022 #91
Absolutely. An attack on a NATO country would be met with overwhelming conventional force. Crunchy Frog Mar 2022 #92

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
21. Your whole argument is bullshit, you've been pushing this crap lately,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:05 PM
Mar 2022

makes me wonder what your intentions are here.

Make no mistake, NATO WILL initiate Article 5 if Putin is insane enough to attack a NATO country.

drray23

(7,684 posts)
24. I hope they do
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:06 PM
Mar 2022

I am all for NATO responding I'm worried that because Russia is a nuclear power there will be hesitation.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
30. When Russia threatened France a few days ago,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:08 PM
Mar 2022

France made it perfectly clear that NATO would respond and NATO has nukes also.

drray23

(7,684 posts)
39. yes true.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:14 PM
Mar 2022

One thing I am bit more optimistic about is the degree of non readiness Putin nuclear arsenal might be in. If the performance of his conventional forces are any indication, the Russian military is in deep shit.

It's very costly to maintain a functional nuclear force. I have no doubts France, Britain and the US have. It may be that Putin's arsenal is in bad shape and our Intel knows it .

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
43. All very good points,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:18 PM
Mar 2022

and something else to consider, something I haven't seen discussed too much here, with all the extremely accurate intelligence we're getting, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the CIA, or another western intelligence agency has a high level mole in Putin's inner circle feeding intelligence to us.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
32. Many NATO countries are also nuclear powers
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:09 PM
Mar 2022

They will not be cowed by the threat of nuclear war, as horrific as that is.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
40. Well that may happen.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:16 PM
Mar 2022

But it just as likely that were Putin to give an order to nuke London and Washington that a general would shoot him in the fucking skull.

Just because Putin is a madman doesn't mean everyone under him is as well.

And if it does indeed come to that and the world ends then it was nice while it lasted.

The sentient cockroaches that arise 50 million years from now can ponder how we screwed up.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
54. ....
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:24 PM
Mar 2022
The sentient cockroaches that arise 50 million years from now can ponder how we screwed up.


And those roaches can munch out on Twinkies, which will survive a nuclear war.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,490 posts)
89. Cockroaches are already sentient. Just not very much. Beware of binary thinking.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:47 PM
Mar 2022

"Does a dog have buddha-nature?"

radius777

(3,652 posts)
75. +1. Kremlin propaganda is everywhere lately.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:45 PM
Mar 2022

Biden, Harris, Blinken and the rest of the admin have repeatedly and clearly stated that 'we will defend every inch of NATO territory' as Article 5' would be invoked which states that an attack on one is an attack on all. If no response occurs it would render NATO meaningless ie a paper tiger - which would have far dire consequences for the security of the West.

Elessar Zappa

(14,563 posts)
20. No way.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:05 PM
Mar 2022

If a NATO country is attacked then it’s war, full stop. The world won’t let Putin take over Europe.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
2. If Putin attacks any NATO member they will defend them
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 04:55 PM
Mar 2022

Article 5 applies to all NATO member countries.

Don't kid yourself.

If Putin attacks a NATO country, NATO would not just let it go.

Nukes or not.

Happy Hoosier

(7,651 posts)
66. Because we are willing to defend ourselves?
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:34 PM
Mar 2022

Is there any Russian aggression in Europe you would find unacceptable?

Jedi Guy

(3,308 posts)
93. It was set at 100 seconds to midnight on January 20th.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 07:13 PM
Mar 2022

I'd be willing to bet it'd be a hell of a lot closer were they to update it today.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
17. We all know about article 5. But would you consider taking a chance on being
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:03 PM
Mar 2022

nuked in order to save a small obscure European country? Would it be worth it if it means a nuclear holocaust that would destroy mankind?

I am not advocating that NATO not honor Article 5. I am just wondering if they would really go through with it if push comes to shove.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
23. So you arguing that NATO countries would sacrifice other NATO members?
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:06 PM
Mar 2022

If so then the treaty pact is meaningless.

It is literally all for one and one for all.

If Putin (or anyone else) were able to attack a NATO country with impunity then the entire treaty organization would implode.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
38. I don't know exactly what NATO would do.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:14 PM
Mar 2022

I suspect that they would launch a conventional defense and hope that Putin doesn't use nukes. But if he does then all bets are off.

LudwigPastorius

(9,680 posts)
63. Article 5 does NOT mean that we nuke Moscow if Russia attacks a NATO country.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:30 PM
Mar 2022

It simply means that the full might of conventional forces roll to its defense.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
65. Of course. But a conventional response to a Russian attack could cause Putin
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:33 PM
Mar 2022

to use nukes. He has already threatened it.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
71. He may have threatened it,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:40 PM
Mar 2022

but would the Generals actually give the order?
Would the special unit of the FSB release the warheads?
Would the true rulers of Russia, the Oligarchs, take out Putin because he's making it much more difficult to make their ill gotten gains?

Many things to ponder here.

Jedi Guy

(3,308 posts)
97. That's really our best hope for survival, honestly.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 07:21 PM
Mar 2022

Putin is apparently having screaming meltdowns with his inner circle, according to some reports. That's a far cry from the ice cold KGB man front he's presented thus far. The screaming whacko is who he really is, and a person like that... I feel like if he foresaw his regime collapsing, he'd order the launch.

Our best hope is that a general would put a bullet in his skull rather than carry out the order. Or that the person with their finger on the actual button is in the mold of Vasily Arkhipov or Stanislav Petrov, the sort of person who thinks, "Is this really justified? Do I really want to be the biggest mass murderer in all of human history?" Those men showed calm thinking and sound judgment in moments of grave peril, so hopefully the men and women with access to the button now are of the same character and fortitude.

This is a moment of extraordinary danger for humanity. In our choose your own adventure book, one of the options at the bottom of this page leads to "the end" on the very next page.

Justice matters.

(7,089 posts)
72. Absolutely NATO would respond because...
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:41 PM
Mar 2022

first, it starts with 1, 2, or 3 countries under attack, then another, then another (or not).

The point being, once we don't respond to a commitment by treaty (serious stuff), nobody really knows what the illegal invaders will do next after seeing our weakness in not following up as we signed we would.

As for Russian military using nuclear devices on any NATO country, that would be the craziest SUICIDAL thing they'd have ever done:

How likely is the use of nuclear weapons by Russia?

Exploring key questions around Putin issuing what was interpreted as a threat to use nuclear weapons against NATO countries if they interfere in Ukraine.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/03/how-likely-use-nuclear-weapons-russia


It's a bluff, IMHO. they do have "silent" submarines not far from our shores also, but we also have some sailing not far from theirs.

Dan

(3,726 posts)
4. I think that you bet wrong, but it would do no good to win that bet.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 04:57 PM
Mar 2022

Money would be the least of our worries.

If Putin attacks a NATO nation and we fail to respond - then at the minimum two things:
1. NATO as an organization and what it stand for would cease to exist.
2. Why should Putin stop with one of the Baltic States, we would have shown ourselves
To be a paper tiger.

calguy

(5,418 posts)
5. All depends on how his Ukraine adventure turns out
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 04:59 PM
Mar 2022

The Ukrainians have been putting up a valiant fight, but they are doomed as the Russian war machine grinds them down. If they can keep an insergency going after Russia gets its inevitable military victory, they might make the Russians think twice before ever thinking about another fiasco.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
22. Sorry for acting like a fool, but I do not want to see a thermonuclear war.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:05 PM
Mar 2022

And it could happen. Many observers believe that Putin has lost his mind and that he is capable of anything.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,916 posts)
37. He may try to order a nuclear strike,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:13 PM
Mar 2022

but would his military carry out such a suicidal order?

Also, the Strategic Rocket Forces control the missiles, but a special unit of the FSB control the warheads, and as has been reported, not all in the FSB agree with Putin's war.

NickB79

(19,374 posts)
9. NATO would respond with overwhelming conventional force
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 04:59 PM
Mar 2022

Seeing Russia's military in action, they'd be obliterated. And if Russia decided to use nukes at that point, NATO would respond in kind.

Our only real hope to avoid a full-scale nuclear apocalypse at that point would be if only a few tactical nukes were exchanged at first, and both sides came to their senses before everything went to hell.

Torchlight

(3,766 posts)
11. I think NATO will react quickly and decisively to any attack on member nations
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:00 PM
Mar 2022

I think that at this moment, Putin is speeding towards the edge of the cliff and is beginning to doubt his earlier confidence and bravado.

A part of me believes that at the accelerating rate of his failure, it's not unthinkable he looks for excuses to begin drawing down.

Walleye

(32,048 posts)
13. I worry because the fighter jets are being dispatched from Poland
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:02 PM
Mar 2022

Putin could decide to attack those bases and then, boy it’s on

EndlessWire

(6,885 posts)
15. NATO will respond.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:03 PM
Mar 2022

But, I think the bigger question is, what will the World do if Putin decides to use a nuke on Ukraine? The fallout would threaten the entire world. That might be a catalyst for intervention.

Sigh.

drray23

(7,684 posts)
19. nothing apparently.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:04 PM
Mar 2022

Short of Putin invading a NATO country nobody will intervene. At least that is what is being argued.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
29. It looks like the OP is arguing that NATO should not respond if Putin invades a NATO country.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:08 PM
Mar 2022

We should just buckle and let Putin take over the world. That would be so much better, right?

drray23

(7,684 posts)
33. I think he is worried as I am to a degree
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:09 PM
Mar 2022

that there would be hesitation to do so. Of course NATO should respond forcefully.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
34. Fallout from a small tactical nuke would probably be limited.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:10 PM
Mar 2022

I am more worried about what might happen with Chernobyl now that the Russians control it.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
26. Oh come on. I doubt if there is any chance whatsoever that Putin will read my
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:07 PM
Mar 2022

comments. He doesn't need my help to push his threats.

Beastly Boy

(10,043 posts)
18. If they dont respond, it's the end of NATO
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:03 PM
Mar 2022

Every NATO country is treaty bound to unconditionally defend any other NATO country under attack. If even one country fails to deliver, the entire organization loses its credibility and purpose.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
25. +1000 NATO literally has one function. If it doesn't do its job, NATO is doomed,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:06 PM
Mar 2022

and frankly, we would all be doomed. NATO is not going to buckle under to Putin's threats, even when they are amplified on social media.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
69. Continuing to appease a Putin that is willing
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:36 PM
Mar 2022

to use nuclear weapons won't stop that either unless the whole world submits to this madman. That's exactly the reason why Nato cannot afford to abandon one of its members. It would embolden Putin.
In your hypothetical, when should Putin be stopped? After invading Poland? When he reaches Berlin?

radius777

(3,652 posts)
85. Not really. NATO is well prepared to win such a war,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:22 PM
Mar 2022

thus it would be the end of Putin/Russia - not NATO.

The West - which is far wealthier and better armed - is not going to lose any conflict with Russia. That's what Putin wants everyone to think, but it is only sabre rattling to scare people and get them cowering at his feet.

Beastly Boy

(10,043 posts)
90. Probably. But repelling agression would not.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:57 PM
Mar 2022

And a nuclear war would not necessarily involve NATO, just as an attack on a NATO country would not necessarily involve a nuclear war.

And a nuclear war would probably mean an end to a whole lot of things other than NATO, not the least of them the party that initiates the first strike.

Beetwasher.

(3,003 posts)
31. There's No Risk, Putin is Full of Shit and He Will be Erased from Existence if he Attacks a NATO
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:09 PM
Mar 2022

Country, probably quicker than he could give an order for a nuclear strike.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
41. Actually NATO is ill equipped to respond to a Russian attack.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:16 PM
Mar 2022

Most NATO members have been cutting back on defense spending for years.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
48. Yes, but it would take months for us to move substantial military force to
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:21 PM
Mar 2022

Europe. And by then it might be too late.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
49. Too late for what?
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:22 PM
Mar 2022

Russia may occupy a Baltic state but we would start deploying forces immediately.

Planes would be there in minutes.

We have bases in Germany.

Crunchy Frog

(26,757 posts)
88. How long do you think it would take to fly a squadron of bomber jets from the US to the Baltics?
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:46 PM
Mar 2022

We could virtually obliterate invading Russian forces within hours if we chose to. Why do you think that would take months?

Torchlight

(3,766 posts)
73. Corollary: with the Ukraine Invasion, Russia *is* vulnerable.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:43 PM
Mar 2022

That refrigerator Ivan wanted to purchase for $500 two weeks ago is now nearly $2000.

Difficult to ignore their immediate and critical economic crisis.

radius777

(3,652 posts)
86. NATO is more united and stronger than ever.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:28 PM
Mar 2022

Over the past 20 years, especially with the election of Trump, NATO has been fractured. But Putin's aggression against a sovereign democratic nation has strengthened and rallied the NATO coalition in ways that were unforeseen.

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
44. Biden is only one NATO leader.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:18 PM
Mar 2022

I am more worried about other NATO members. And probably Biden will have left office before Putin gets around to attacking the Baltics anyway.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
55. And you have yet another concern.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:25 PM
Mar 2022

Putin might use nukes if NATO defends itself.
Putin might use Chernobyl as a dirty bomb if NATO helps Ukraine.
NATO might fall apart if one of its leaders balks.

Have I missed any?

sarisataka

(19,585 posts)
80. What NATO countries would back out?
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:58 PM
Mar 2022

Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland hate Russia and would fight with or without the US. Likely the rest of the former Warsaw Pact would join themas would Norway who has a border with Russia.

Assuming Biden stands firm, UK, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark would follow.

Who would sit out? Turkey also hates Russia but might try to stay on the sidelines unless the US is involved. France will not let themselves lose prestige so are in. The Balkan states?- maybe as some have historic ties to Russia

totodeinhere

(13,115 posts)
50. Oh come on. I didn't say that I wish for Biden to be out
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:23 PM
Mar 2022

of office. But we know that he is limited to two terms. Putin is not.

AntiFascist

(12,795 posts)
53. I bet Putin is thinking...
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:24 PM
Mar 2022

"the crazier I act, the more I will freak out the Western world and they will let me get away with what I am doing."

flying_wahini

(7,044 posts)
58. I feel like NATO will be happy to follow the US into a war. If they didn't
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:27 PM
Mar 2022


Their own necks would be next. The proximity of Western Europe is key to your argument.
I also feel like Biden and other superpowers will persuade
Putin’s handlers to deal with him Publicly. Some back room dealing would ensue, I am sure.

andym

(5,492 posts)
76. They will risk it. NO doubt. Nuclear brinkmanship as last seen during the Cuban Missile Crisis
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:46 PM
Mar 2022

Sorry, to scare you, but there is little evidence to suggest otherwise.

radius777

(3,652 posts)
78. NATO is the defense force of Western civilization.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 05:50 PM
Mar 2022

Biden, Harris et al have stated forcefully and repeatedly that 'we will defend every inch of NATO territory' and NATO Sec General has activated the NATO response force to bolster NATO's eastern flank (Poland and the Baltics).

An attack against any NATO country is an attack on the West (not just that particular country) and would trigger Article 5 which states that an attack on one is an attack on all. NATO (and the US) would indeed enter direct conflict with Russia at that point, which does not mean nuclear warfare, which is just something Putin says to scare the West out of the conflict. Putin/Russia would not use nukes knowing we have many nukes aimed directly at their major cities and it would be the end of him and his country.

Music Man

(1,341 posts)
81. While I don't know what would happen,
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:02 PM
Mar 2022

I do know that there are people who develop plans for this sort of thing and that we have absolutely no idea what preparations have gone into these scenarios. Especially as it relates to nuclear war, things aren't left to chance. While worst-case scenarios are frightening for the general population, defense and research people are way ahead of us.

Fiendish Thingy

(16,379 posts)
83. It doesn't matter so much what Putin thinks
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:14 PM
Mar 2022

It matters more what his generals and FSB think.

At some point, Putin will cross a line, and at best, his orders will be ignored, more likely he will get a bullet to the head.

I envision a potential end game where a tank battalion surrounds the Politburo, or wherever Putin is located, and is cheered on by the people in the streets, and summarily ends the Putin regime.

Just like it happened at the end of the Soviet Union, except this time, the army will be on the side of the people.

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
84. I don't think that Putin wants WWIII with all of its nuclear implications
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:18 PM
Mar 2022

I think that he wants to refight WWII where Russia came out the mighty victor. However, the game he is playing is dangerous as hell and could lead to MAD without him being able to stop it. Putin thinks that the weakened Democracies will roll over and accept his current and future plans. He may have made the fatal mistake of underestimating his enemies. He is rolling the dice with the species at stake. That is why he needs to be tied to one.

Crunchy Frog

(26,757 posts)
92. Absolutely. An attack on a NATO country would be met with overwhelming conventional force.
Wed Mar 2, 2022, 06:59 PM
Mar 2022

If Putin chooses to go nuclear, well that's on him.

BTW, fuck Putin and anyone who shills for him.

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