"I Want It Now!" - Veruca Salt

[MineralMan]

We all want what we want, and we want what we want immediately, it seems. Our culture and our business environment are all geared to that philosophy.

Want a big screen TV? You can get one delivered today, from local chain retail stores or from Amazon. Just enter your credit card number and a truck will arrive at your door the same day in most places.

Are you feeling peckish? Just drive to a nearby corner and you'll find a place you can get some food to eat. You can just drive in speak into a box, and someone will hand it to you out of a little window in an instant.

Instant gratification. We count on it. We demand it. We get it, but at a cost.

So, we're impatient when everything doesn't work that way. Take justice, for example. We all know that the former President is a vicious crook, and we want him and his cronies to pay for their criminal actions. We don't want to wait, either, for the wheels of justice to turn. If the enforcers of the law don't deliver justice immediately, we criticize those enforcers. We stop believing that they will, in the end, bring the man to justice. We get angry because it's a complicated thing to convict criminals. It takes time. A lot of time. We are not satisfied. We are frustrated. We lose confidence. We demand instant Karma and, when we don't get it we attack those who are trying to deliver it.

We want Peace in Ukraine. We want it immediately. Some of us are even willing to risk a global nuclear war to get that peace. We are so impatient that we think we would welcome annihilation, if it would end the suffering of the people of Ukraine. We're not satisfied with sanctions, like the ones implemented by our President, Joe Biden, and enhanced as recently as right freaking now. We demand action, despite the fact that there is no immediate action that will guarantee a quick, non-violent end to an attack by Russia on Ukraine. We get angry at the very people who are working to restore peace to that part of the world. We are impatient. We are frustrated. We react with our emotions, rather than our reason.

Why? Because we have been trained to expect instant gratification. We demand it. We take it for granted, because we can often get what we want immediately.

Remember what happened to Veruca Salt? What I'm saying isn't going to be popular, I realize, but it's the reality. But, try to think things through and have some patience, if you can.

[captain queeg]

1. Yeah that's certainly prevalent, especially in the US.

Even if the war in Ukraine can be defused fairly soon there will be ongoing repercussions in Ukraine and elsewhere. Even in the best of scenarios things are going to be screwed up for awhile. I just hope it opens some eyes to how dark money has corrupted politics here and no doubt elsewhere.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes. Things we can't control happen all the time.

We get frustrated about not having control over them. Sadly, we often lose sight of what recovery from those things will take and strike out at the very people who are trying to fix the problem. We work against ourselves far too often.

[Moostache]

2. as far as justice goes...I respectfully disagree.

The speed of the prosecution of Trump is not a primary concern to me. What IS though is the lifelong pattern the man has used to subvert and deflect responsibility and actual consequences or justice from them.

I am certainly guilty of having trouble with delayed gratification myself, but justice for Trump does not seem to be in the offing, much as it has eluded him for 75 years to date...

[MineralMan]

6. The primary problem with prosecuting Trump

is that it is completely unprecedented. Perhaps that shouldn't be the case, but it is. It will take a great effort to come up with a successful prosecution of a former President. And preparing such a case will take much time.

Instead of attacking those who will be prosecuting him for taking that time, we should be encouraging them to persevere and attend to all the details that will make their case a successful one.

[stopdiggin]

20. Republicans have already publicly 'warned off' the DOJ

(in a startlingly brazen move of strong arm power politics) that any attempt to prosecute the former president will result in a "political war."

The above may not come as a particular surprise to the watchful - but the fact that they were quite prepared to splash it on bold headlines around the country ... Perhaps should.

[MineralMan]

21. I think we should ignore those Republicans.

Yes, I do.

[stopdiggin]

23. Yes. My inclination

(coupled with desire for the well being of this country) urges me toward deescalation. Further polarization just doesn't look good for us. But - I'm afraid Putin has given us a rather apt (and stark) illustration to ponder. How exactly does one 'deescalate' from such a tyrannical force and agenda? Is there any real option short of capitulation? Sadly, I think the answer is, "no."

[ECL213]

28. Prosecuting a Crook is not Unprecedented

I'm sorry, but the MF should have been prosecuted long before he ever ran for office for all manner of offenses. I'll wait patiently for him to finally get his due, but I don't plan on holding my breath while I wait.

[MineralMan]

31. I see. Well, I'll nod at your expertise.

What is unprecedented is prosecuting a former President of the United States, as I said in my post. That has never happened, and will have a huge political impact that is rather hard to predict. That is why any such prosecution needs to be extremely well prepared and very well supported with evidence.

Whether you hold your breath or not is unlikely to influence what happens to any degree whatsoever. Nor will what I write on DU.

[ECL213]

52. Oh, MineralMan.

[justhanginon]

3. Well said! I find myself slipping into that mode as I watch things unfold and

then have to pull myself back to reality. Things just don't happen on my schedule. In a lot of cases there is no schedule or at least no one really knows when or how things will end. Just too many variables out of our control. We just have to keep the trust in our leaders that we had when we so eagerly voted them into office.

[MineralMan]

5. Thank you.

Letting emotions override reason is one of our human traits. It's not a good one in terms of resolution of problems.

[Celerity]

7. Veruca Salt - Seether

[MineralMan]

8. Hmm...a blank video.

Oh, well. I guess I won't know what point you are making.

On Edit: Well, I looked it up. I was not familiar with the band called "Veruca Salt," nor with the lyrics to their song "Seether." I am now.

Those lyrics have absolutely zero to do with my post. Nothing whatsoever.

[Celerity]

50. Must be geo blocked for you.

Those lyrics have absolutely zero to do with my post. Nothing whatsoever.

Name only.

Seether was their big hit, back 28 years ago. Sort of surprised you had not heard of them or that song, as it is an early (semi) 90's grunge classic.

[MineralMan]

51. I'm not a fan of 90s grunge, frankly. Way past my time.

So, I'm not surprised at all. I did listen to "Seether," though. I also read the lyrics. They had nothing to do with my thread, though, clearly.

[Celerity]

54. the name of the band is the same as the name of the character in your post

[MineralMan]

55. Yes, of course, but that's the only connection.

I'm sure the woman from that band named it from the movie. She is apparently a bit of a loose cannon, herself, based on the Wikipedia article on the band. Not my area of interest, though. Like I said, grunge bands aren't something I care much about. Still, I did go and read up on the band.

[2naSalit]

9. We've been conditioned over decades...

To believe that we can have it all when and where we want it because America! Now look what's happened.

[MineralMan]

10. It's a human nature thing, really. It's not just here in this country, either.

[2naSalit]

18. I think...

As a cultural anthropologist, that it's more like negative human traits being taken advantage of to the Nth degree for profit.

[electric_blue68]

47. Ah... As a professional or serious amatuer? Either's good. ...

Certainly read about Margret Mead, and articles by her way back.


I think we are a mix depending on the person of impatience, and patience.
Any one learning a new craft, skill etc certainly knows that. I know I'm a mix. I'd say I lean more towards patience with some things. When I'm upset it may make me more triggerable in other areas.

[2naSalit]

56. I remember when..

Margret Mead was alive, saw her on TeeVee a number of times. My BA is in cultural anth. the MA is in polisci. It seems to be a dangerous mix of knowledge sometimes, leaves me speechless at times when applied to real life and current times. The more you know, the scarier it is.

[electric_blue68]

58. Heh, that IS an interesting mix... and yeah, I could why you'd day that.

[2naSalit]

59. To answer the original question...

I consider myself an informed amateur unless someone actually pays me to do something with it.

[electric_blue68]

60. 👍

[Ohio Joe]

11. oh my god... This post was so long, it took forever to read it...

[MineralMan]

13. Yeah. Still, it's shorter than some of my posts.

[2naSalit]

19. I know, right?

[world wide wally]

12. Don't we all?

[MineralMan]

14. Good Call!

I thought of that one, too, but Veruca Salt made a better reference, I think.

[mtngirl47]

15. Yep, everything should be solved like a 2 hour movie!

and it should be happily ever after, and the good guys should win, and and....

[MineralMan]

16. Easy Peasy, for sure.

[TheBlackAdder]

17. I've been humming the remakes Augustus Gloop for a few days now. Play it with CC on.

.

&t=135s


Here's the remake's Veruca Salt.

.

[MineralMan]

22. Thanks! I never saw that.

[nightwing1240]

24. Neville Chamberlain says well said

I am quite aware of him but from Wikipedia =

He is best known for his foreign policy of appeasement, and in particular for his signing of the Munich Agreement on 30 September 1938, ceding the German-speaking Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia to Nazi Germany led by Adolf Hitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain

No, I do not want nuclear war and I know we can't have immediate peace. But people are dying by the day, that is intolerable.
I don't claim to have the answer and understand sanctions by President Biden. But more needs done before that evil man spreads his
army into other European nations.

[MineralMan]

25. So, you are accusing me of appeasement?

That's interesting, considering that I am in no position to affect any of this. Nor, I suspect, are you.

[nightwing1240]

26. No, no accusation

Merely a comparison

[MineralMan]

29. That's a fine difference, isn't it?

See, what I'm saying is that we need to stop and think and let our leadership manage this. We don't know very much, other than that Russia is attacking Ukraine. Beyond that, it's a very complicated matter that involves all NATO countries, and more.

Nobody on DU, as far as I know, has access to intelligence information, nor estimates of what actions taken by the US and other NATO countries might trigger. Given that Russia has access to an arsenal of nuclear armaments, the wrong move could cause even more death and destruction in Ukraine or in neighboring countries. That, obviously, would make a bad situation very much worse.

My post was recommending patience. That's all. We do not have all of the information needed to be able to accurately judge what would happen if we take specific actions. We're operating with almost no information at all. That is not the case for the Biden administration nor the NATO nations.

Please think longer before making such comparisons. Yours was not at all a good comparison. Not in any way.

[nightwing1240]

32. Excuse me Sir,

Had we (The United States) waited much longer to enter WWII most of us would be speaking German today. Again, I do not wish for a nuclear war and war should be avoided at all costs. However, evil triumphs when good people do nothing.

Allow an analogy please. You live near the east coast of the US and a hurricane threat appears. Do you board up your property before the storm gets there or wait until it arrives?

[MineralMan]

35. Both of your options for a hurricane are purely defensive.

In the first place, I do not live on either coast. I live smack dab in the middle of flyover country. We have blizzards here, and there is a threat of tornadoes here. I am prepared for both with plans of action should either occur. I've been through a few blizzards. I've not been the victim of a tornado, but we have a plan for what to do should the sirens go off to warn us. We have followed that plan a couple of time.

However, I would not go out and shout at the blizzard or yell at an approaching tornado. Instead, I would adopt my defensive plan.

Your analogy does not fit the situation.

[nightwing1240]

38. Sir,

The analogy is this; A storm is raging in the Ukraine at the hands of Putin. Do we wait for him to spread or arrive on our or our allies doorsteps before we do anything?

I did not say you live on the east coast. I am not talking weather patterns here in the United States. I am talking about people being killed daily in Ukraine.

We can afford to be patient for now. Putin isn't bombing us, but he is bombing women and children there. That Sir is intolerable. Be as patient as you wish, you have no fear of bombs in your neighborhood. Those unfortunate people do no not have the luxury of patience.

[MineralMan]

41. We must be careful about the steps we take.

The storm can easily be spread and worsen if we take the wrong steps. The very last thing we want to do is spread the death and destruction, I would think.

We are not in any position to stop hostilities in Ukraine. Sending troops there is not going to happen. Our troops are positioned to help defend our NATO allies. We also cannot bomb Russia out of Ukraine. Russian forces are scattered all over that nation. Even a no-fly zone wouldn't be very helpful, since Russia is using primarily ground forces and ground-based weaponry in Ukraine.

So, we're slamming economic sanctions on Russia and mustering our allies to do the same. Russia is not "winning" in Ukraine. It's not even putting its maximum effort into attacking Ukraine. Apparently Putin underestimated the difficulty and did not plan an appropriate assault on that nation. His effort is backfiring in many ways, both internationally and within Russia itself.

Ukrainians, sadly, are bearing the brunt of the battle. They're fighting back bravely and effectively, though.

Where and when will this all end? I do not know. I do know that the approach Europe and the US are taking minimizes the risk of this war mutating into a nuclear exchange. I'm sure that is primary on everyone's mind who is making decisions right now.

I will leave them to their job. I have no suggestions for them, because I have too little information.

You needn't call me Sir, either.

[wnylib]

45. There is a vast difference between

Chamberlain and today's European and American leaders. Chamberlain refused to recognize Hitler's and Nazi Germany's danger to Europe. He failed to take action against them.

Today, before Russia even invaded Ukraine, Biden alerted the world to the danger, and united European leaders in actions taken against Russia. The world beyond Europe and the US have been giving aid to Ukraine.

Huge difference. Comparing today's events to Chamberlain is ludicrous.

[keep_left]

27. Sorta OT, I guess, but thanks for being the first DUer in ages to spell "vicious" correctly.

People almost always spell the word some other (incorrect) way, like "viscious" or "viscous" (are they thinking of 60W motor oil?).

You get a triple play for this post by also reminding us of the Willie Wonka character and the one-hit-wonder '90s band. Not bad!

[MineralMan]

30. I try very hard not to make too many errors in my writing.

Thanks.

[keep_left]

34. Well, hopefully my comment doesn't get dog-piled for being too snarky...

...I didn't intend it as such, but that never stops a dog-piling. I actually checked my own spelling before I posted, because it's just like me to critique misspellings and then misspell the very word about which I'm complaining! Anyway, I know that you did writing and editing as part of your livelihood, and it shows in your posts here.

[MineralMan]

36. I think you'll be fine in that regard.

[themaguffin]

33. Veruca Salt has been my go to comparison for Republicans since the pandemic started

[MineralMan]

37. Yes. It's an apt comparison, I think.

[KS Toronado]

39. My brother, a lifelong Democrat believes IQ4.5

will never see the inside of a jail cell because as a country "We don't prosecute Presidents"
We got a $100 bet, I expect to easily win.

[MineralMan]

42. My money is with yours.

I think he'll be prosecuted, but I think not very soon. Others, however, will be prosecuted, leading up to the grand entry of TFG into a federal courthouse.

[jaxexpat]

40. It's not impatience. It's the nagging sense that nothing of substance will be done.

[MineralMan]

43. So, you have a "sense" of things?

I suggest that your "sense" may not be accurate.

[jaxexpat]

48. It's either one has faith in the system or one senses the outcome.

Either stance is based on mystical thinking. My experience is that which may go wrong will go wrong at least often enough to make the event memorable. It's the trust but verify thing. I'm looking for verification of the process.

[NoMoreRepugs]

44. Unchartered water in a climate of partisanship unlike ANY that has ever existed in this country IMO.

Patience is the KEYWORD. Appreciate your post MM.

[Silent3]

46. We're well, WELL past anything like Veruca Salt demands for instant gratification.

The major coup plotters needed to be exposed, indicted, and even better, convicted before the November elections.

On a not-so-impatient time scale of about 21 months after the insurrection.

The pace of the DoJ so far indicates that time table simply won't be met. That puts us in danger of the authoritarian forces in this country gaining more power, and a very likely set-up for a loss of our democracy in 2024.

But, yes, I'm a whiny brat for caring about the survival of American democracy more than the timid, ass-covering, career-protecting glacially slow pace of "the process" at DoJ.

[MineralMan]

49. I suggest, then, that you focus on enhancing Democratic turnout

at the polls in November. Your energy would be better, I'm sure, if used that way rather than focusing on your "perceptions" of what the DOJ is doing.

But, hey, that's just my opinion, as always.

[Silent3]

53. Being disappointed with the DoJ and enhancing Democratic turnout...

...are not mutually exclusive. I have plenty of "energy" for both.

As for my "perceptions", they are echoed by many far more qualified than myself, and a better bet going by the history of the rich, powerful, and well-connected being held to account. I'd say the burden of proof is higher for those who suggest we have faith in "the process".

[JHB]

57. This is... disappointing. MM, you've been on DU long enough to remember the last time Veruca...

...was a favorite object to compare other DUers to, back in the early Obama administration.

What productive thing came out of that?

Not a damn thing. Mostly bile and angry sniping. Veruca and "pretty pony" graphics were the means by which DUers took nasty swipes at each other and taunted each other without overtly violating DU rules. This was back on DU2, and as someone who was a mod for part of that time, it drove us nuts trying to keep the peace. That crap and the burden it placed on the mods is part of why DU3 switched to the jury model. Flawed thought it may be, it cuts down on the accusations of "purges."

I do not understand why you think there is anything positive to be gained by equating impatience with the process with petulant spoiled children. I'm not joining in with the accusatory comments about the lack of publicly visible progress, but I've also gotten a little short about the condescension aimed at those who do.

Let me reframe it in terms I'm sure someone with your background will understand: This is a morale problem. How many times have we seen malfeasance by Republican officials or corporate executives overlooked in the interest of putting the past behind us and moving forward, only for it to bite us in the ass later on? Who paid a price for Abu-Gharaib except a handful of privates? Robosigning was an exercise in mass document forgery -- what banking executives are in jail for that?

How hard is it to remember that people have heard "Oh, you're so impatient! This is a complicated case that takes time" only to see nothing pan out in the end? For decades.

People need hope that it'll be different this time. People need to see real progress. If all they ever hear is "wait for it, wait for it...", why do you blame and deride them for for coming to the end of their rope, for looking at it as yet another exercise in "keeping our powder dry" but never using it. (Or worse, letting Republicans blow it up in our face.)

The problem is morale. And it is not going to be solved by accusing other people of "I want it NOW" without even acknowledging why they feel the way they do and working to change their minds about those reasons.

[MineralMan]

61. Well, you have certainly been on DU longer than I have.

However, Veruca Salt is symbolic of people who cannot wait to get what they want. So, that reference is used frequently as a metaphor for such a thing.

I do remember what you're talking about. Still, the desired result did happen in that situation. It just took a while. That often happens when what you want is a change in how society looks at something or treats some group.

That has been true for many groups who were discriminated against, and still is true for many. However, insisting that something happen immediately often has the opposite effect. Real change takes time and requires participation by a broad group of people who support such changes.

There is a reason that Veruca Salt comes up. I'm sure it will continue to come up now and then.

Still, I am suitably chidden.