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erronis

(15,328 posts)
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 07:43 PM Apr 2022

A New History of World War II - The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/world-war-ii-empire-colonialism/629371/
Archived: https://archive.ph/BZ2OO

This is an incredibly good read describing the basis for WW-II, before and after, as a result of empires and colonialism.

What was the Second World War about? According to Allied leaders, that wasn’t a hard question. “This is a fight between a free world and a slave world,” U.S. Vice President Henry Wallace explained. It is “between Nazidom and democracy,” Winston Churchill said, with “tyranny” on one side and “liberal, peaceful” powers on the other.

Would that it were so simple. The Allies’ inclusion of the Soviet Union—“a dictatorship as absolute as any dictatorship in the world,” Franklin D. Roosevelt once called it—muddied the waters. But the other chief Allies weren’t exactly liberal democracies, either. Britain, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, the United States, and (depending on how you view Tibet and Mongolia) China were all empires. Together, they held, by my count, more than 600 million people—more than a quarter of the world—in colonial bondage.

This fact wasn’t incidental; empire was central to the causes and course of the war. Yet the colonial dimensions of World War II aren’t usually stressed. The most popular books and films present it as Churchill did, as a dramatic confrontation between liberty-loving nations and merciless tyrants. In the United States, it’s remembered still as the “good war,” the vanquishing of evil by the Greatest Generation.

...
hat impelled Germany, Japan, and Italy on their conquering missions? Given how reckless and ruinous their belligerence was, pathologizing it is easy. Madness clearly abounded in the high command, but three countries going insane in the same way at the same time isn’t exactly a satisfying explanation. A better one, Overy suggests, lies further in the past.

The 19th century had seen a “veritable steeplechase for colonial acquisitions,” as Italy’s foreign ministry described it. Britain won that race, with other countries that would eventually join the Allies taking secondary prizes. The Axis powers, late out of the gate, got the leftovers. Worse, the winners locked the losers out, rebuffing Japan’s attempts to join the great powers’ club and stripping Germany of its meager overseas holdings after World War I. Going into the 1930s, the Allies held 15 times more colonial acreage than the Axis states did.

Japan, Germany, and Italy were rising economies without large empires. Was that a problem? Today, it wouldn’t be; 21st-century countries don’t require colonies to prosper. But different rules applied in the first half of the 20th century. Then, industrial powers depended on raw materials from far-off lands. And without colonies, they had every reason to worry about ready availability. Hitler never forgot the World War I blockade that largely cut Germany off from such materials as rubber and nitrates and caused widespread hunger. The global Depression, which shrunk international trade by two-thirds from 1929 to 1932, threatened a new form of blockade.
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A New History of World War II - The Atlantic (Original Post) erronis Apr 2022 OP
yeah, that's ONE way to read history, lol... WarGamer Apr 2022 #1
It Is A Sound Enough Analysis, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2022 #2
He is a curious fellow, Sir Hekate Apr 2022 #3
Indeed, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2022 #4
I don't have a problem with the take on Japan... WarGamer Apr 2022 #6
Hitler was inspired by American "Manifest Destiny"; what do you think his idea of "lebensraum" was? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2022 #7
The strongest single component of Nazism and Hitler's ideology was anti-Communism. WarGamer Apr 2022 #8
Which authors and biographers? Spider Jerusalem Apr 2022 #9
Well... WarGamer Apr 2022 #10
But his primary motivators were German nationalism and anti-Semitism. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2022 #11
thanks for your participation, have a good rest of your evening. WarGamer Apr 2022 #12
Sound Enough, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2022 #13
Agreed Sherman A1 Apr 2022 #5

The Magistrate

(95,255 posts)
4. Indeed, Ma'am
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 08:43 PM
Apr 2022

He strikes me right enough, and is sound on some matters.

But I am curious, because the war in the Pacific was over empire, and the efforts made after VJ Day to restore French and Dutch colonial rule prove the case.

German and Italian desire for colonial possessions was a long-standing feature of European power politics dating to the nineteenth century.

The Chinese date is accurate, the beginning of the Second World War was the 'Mukden Incident' of 18 September, 1931, which commenced war between Imperial Japan and Nationalist China, and both Italy's invasion of Ethiopia and the Spanish Civil War are properly considered part of the same global conflict.

That Stalin ruled an empire, not a nation, and sought to expand it, ought to need no mention.

WarGamer

(12,463 posts)
6. I don't have a problem with the take on Japan...
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:18 PM
Apr 2022

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

But in Europe...

Hitler was obsessed on purely ideological grounds.

Amassing a New Third Reich "Empire" was just a benefit.

It's important to look at all of Europe in the 20's... 30's...

The Communists were spreading all over Europe. They found opposition in Spain, France, Germany, Italy... basically everywhere.

Hitlerian Nationalism, later called Nazism... was, at it's core anti-Communist. Yes, Hitler added lots of "Aryan Race" this and that and blaming Jews, which he saw as allies of Communism but at it's core, Nazism and the war in Europe was based on vengeance for WW1 and the destruction of Communism including the European Jews, seen by the Nazis as allies of the Communists.

The Nationalism aspect was propaganda. The Aryan fairy tales and the official State "mythology" were designed to make the population ready for war.

Of course, Hitler dreamed of a massive European Empire, the Thousand Year Reich... but IMHO, it differed from the "Empire Building" of Japan.

There's a lot more that could be said but my keyboard is noisy and it annoys my wife while she's watching TV... lol.

Hope that clarifies my angle.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
7. Hitler was inspired by American "Manifest Destiny"; what do you think his idea of "lebensraum" was?
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:27 PM
Apr 2022

Hitler was a virulent anti-Semite. Pan-German natonalism mated to something like a German Manifest Destiny was absolutely a defining factor of Nazi ideology, well beyond mere propaganda.

WarGamer

(12,463 posts)
8. The strongest single component of Nazism and Hitler's ideology was anti-Communism.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:36 PM
Apr 2022

Look at Hitler's own words in Mein Kampf and his testimony in Court after the Beer hall Putsch.

Yes, there were other aspects such as Lebensraum, of course... but IMHO... and that of other authors and biographers... the anti-Communist/Bolshevik/Marxist/Jewish thing was the core.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
9. Which authors and biographers?
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:41 PM
Apr 2022

Anti-Communism absolutely was not his primary motivator, and anyone suggesting that it was is clearly ignorant of the subject. (Reducing exterminationist anti-Semitism to "anti-Communism", while ignoring Hitler's romantic conception of "the volkisch state" is also a bit historically revisionist.)

WarGamer

(12,463 posts)
10. Well...
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:54 PM
Apr 2022

Hitler CLEARLY conflated Communism/Bolshevism with the European Jews.

Heydrich wrote:

"eastern Jewry is the intellectual reservoir of Bolshevism and in the Führer's view must therefore be annihilated"

Hitler told the League of Nations in 1939:

"Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend this, I will be forced to reach an understanding with the Russians, turn and strike the West, and then after their defeat turn back against the Soviet Union with my collected strength. I need the Ukraine and with that no one can starve us out as they did in the last war."


Alan Bullock wrote the "granddaddy" of Hitler biographies. It's been years since I read it but do remember the focus on defeating Communism/Bolshevism above everything else and the way he conflated the Soviet Union with European Jews, blending his antisemitism with anti-Communism.

All people are free to form their own opinions... it's not a crime to disagree and I won't argue with you and your views.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
11. But his primary motivators were German nationalism and anti-Semitism.
Mon Apr 4, 2022, 11:59 PM
Apr 2022

"but he was really an anti-Communist, because he thought Communism was a Jewish plot to destroy the West" is not the impressive reasoning you seem to think it is. Everyone may be entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts.

The Magistrate

(95,255 posts)
13. Sound Enough, Sir
Tue Apr 5, 2022, 12:49 AM
Apr 2022

I think our most important point of agreement is the essential identity Hitler drew between Bolsheviks and Jews. In this he was not alone, I could cite no less than Woodrow Wilson to the identical view circa 1918. It has been a staple on the authoritarian right as long as there have been Communists. So in the phenomenon of Nazism, Hitlerism, if you will, there is no meaningful distinction between Jew and Communist, and so no meaningful distinction between Anti-Semitism and Anti-Bolshevism.

I am of the opinion the exaltation of the Aryan was genuine belief, not mere manipulation. There is a good deal of that, too, in Mein Kampf. Some ascribe that to Hess. It's not really knowable, involving as it does an individual's mind. Himmler certainly seems to have been a devotee.

I also think it unwise to ignore the influence of things that observably have driven a nation's policy for generations. The Russian Federation today seeks things the Soviets sought or had, that the Czars sought or had.

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