Orlando was a cow town before Disney

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I lived in Central Florida from 1970-2012 except for a year when I lived in Miami and another year when I lived in Tallahassee. Orlando was a cow town before Disney. I keep seeing that Disney World employs 75,000 people. How many other indirect tourism jobs do they create? Tourists come to Orlando for the Mouse. Universal, Legoland, and Sea World are additions to, not in lieu of a Disney vacation. Disney did and does more for the state of Florida than Ron DeSantis ever could. How its residents can't see it, regardless of their party identification is beyond me.

[FeelingBlue]

1. Time to leave Florida. Nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. They have nowhere to go.

Theme parks like Disney require temperate climates for year around access. Except for California most of the states with temperate climates have Republican governors.

[Tickle]

5. The only thing that will probably go

is the CEO. I suspect at the next board meeting the CEO will give his resignation. The share holders have to be pissed

[rockfordfile]

14. No he isn't

[Tickle]

23. they haven't had a shareholder

meeting yet lol

[The Grand Illuminist]

56. And the only thing people will be interested in...

is the next series of MCU movies and Star Wars.

[Tickle]

72. Ok nt

[FBaggins]

73. Because - unlike other large corporations - they don't care about profits?

Disney stock is down substantially (about 25% this year).

No telling whether they'll attribute any of that to recent events in FL - but they surely aren't happy.

[TheRealNorth]

9. Yup

Florida doesn't have to create good jobs that create wealth because it offers incentives (along with warm weather) for wealthy retirees to bring their wealth earned elsewhere to FL.

[ProfessorGAC]

63. Serious Question

What are the incentives? Illinois has no income tax on retirement income, so that's not an incentive for us.
What, other than weather, are the incentives to move there?
Is it low/no property taxes, or big senior discounts on state fees, or whatever?
Are there many states that fully tax retirement incomes?
I honestly don't know what those incentives would be, because they don't seem to apply to us.

[Celerity]

30. Temperate climates include most of the US, Canada, and Europe.

We here in Stockholm live in the temperate zone.

I think you may mean full or near full subtropical for your climatological delineation.

Paris Disney (not subtropical) and Tokyo Disney (technically subtropical) are in temperate climates where it snows.

[speak easy]

34. that is a political map

not a climate map...

so why post it?

[Celerity]

39. What are you talking about? Of course it is a climate map.

[speak easy]

47. WTF?

[Celerity]

52. You are not making any sense. It IS a climate zone map. Zero clue what you are on about.

[FBaggins]

74. Different notions of "temperate"

Disney clearly can't run a year-round theme park in Nova Scotia - despite this map labeling it as within the "temperate zone".

[DonCoquixote]

70. New Mexico?

plus the fact that just a small part movign out, like let's say star wars parks, would make florida bleed

[kskiska]

71. Puerto Rico

[calimary]

69. Yeah. That was my first thought.

And leak it. That DisneyWorld is considering a change of venue.

If it were me, I’d start looking at either Atlanta or in the general New Orleans area. Both are destination cities with tourism emphasis and capability.

A DisneyWorld-type attraction would enhance whichever city became the new host. AND for the Disney side of things, there may not by all the nice little perks and contractual gimme’s but I’d bet there will still be some nice tax incentives and/or other bonuses to the company for relocating there.

If I were running Disney I’d have already started looking. Good grief, the bonanza in advertising and promotion that a relocation would trigger! Man-oh-man! There’d be coverage for years! And don’t forget the benefits to the new host state - taxes, employment for thousands of people, and the tourism bonanza! Cool “flying Goofy” travel packages etc… DAYUM, I can just see the ad campaigns now!

[Tickle]

3. well now they lost their tax break

The villages were excluded so they were saved.

Florida has hundreds of similar special tax districts that would be left in place. One covers the Villages, a massive senior-living community northwest of Orlando. Another covers the Daytona International Speedway and surrounding area.

The reaction to the action

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I'm not a NASCAR fan but I wouldn't crap on the Speedway.

It's also iconic and a major destination.

[Tickle]

7. lol nt

[Escurumbele]

22. Read about the villages, orgies and other weird stuff...Maybe that is why republicans want to

protect it...the orgies and drugs...

[link:https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-villages-florida_n_5504154|

[Tickle]

26. lol I haven't read it yet

but I'm having visions of naked fat old people rolling around

[RedSpartan]

46. Fun fact:

The Villages has the highest rate of STDs per capita in America.

Or so I've heard.

[Tickle]

51. That's an interesting

picture to put in my head

[Walleye]

4. Republicans don't care. The revenge against their imagined enemies feels so good

[RKP5637]

8. One thing for sure, DeSantis doesn't give a shit about anyone, anything. He thinks his

sociopathic shenanigans will win him the presidency in 2024, that is all he cares about, and Florida is just a tool to use. Hopefully, but I have doubts, people will wise up by 2024.

[global1]

13. OK People - Look What DeSantis Is Willing To Do To Disney.....

Disney - as big and as powerful that it is.

Now People - think about what DeSantis would be willing to do to you if you cross him.

Remember - in comparison to Disney - you are non- existent.

Is this the type of person you want as a president - or even a Governor going forward?

Hmmmmm...... Something to ponder.

[mgardener]

16. Trump had the same reputation

They didn't care then and they won't care now.

[global1]

42. I Would Hope That Many People Have Learned The Hard Way With TFG....

and that they do care. Maybe not then - but now they do.

Don't get me wrong - TFG still has followers - but I think a lot dropped off.

What's the old saying? "Fool me once....."

[griffi94]

68. Fool Me Twice

Won't get fooled again - GWB

[RKP5637]

29. If you could get into his head, ugh, I think DeSantis wants to be a Dictator for the US with

a Totalitarian government if elected into the presidency in 2024. This guy is nasty. Many at Yale hated the guy. He's a belligerent bully at best. I can't believe Florida wanted an ass like him as their governor. With all the crap he's done, if reelected in 2022 as governor of Florida, it will be a very bad omen for the US, 2024.

[global1]

45. Is He Up For Re-Election In Nov - This Year?.....

How are the polls running for him in Florida? Who is he running against? Who's the Dem candidate? We might want to donate some money to them.

[RKP5637]

66. Yes, he's up for reelection in Nov. Polls have generally showed him in the lead,

but polls are polls. Here's a summary of who is running against him.

https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-governor-race-2022-desantis-challengers-democrats-whos-running-platform-2021-11

He's the 7th most popular gov. in the US. I really fear what the US appears to be becoming.

[housecat]

33. Yeap, going up against Disney is a publicity stunt, and DeSantis is a prostitute

[haele]

10. Only other employer in Orlando back then was Navy/Coast Guard Boot camp.

Which was BRAC'd back in the late 1980's, I think.
I went to Boot Camp there in 1977. Disneyworld was the only place to go for the Graduation Weekend if you weren't into bar hopping.

Haele

[Deep State Witch]

11. My Great-Aunt Lived In Kissimmee

My Great-Aunt Margaret (grandfather's half-sister) emigrated from what's now Western Romania along with her other sister, my GF, and his wife in 1920. Tante Margaret married a guy and settled in Kissimmee, Florida. Her and her husband owned an orange grove there. Along about the late 1960's, some mysterious company started buying up land in that area, including their orange grove. Her family took the money and relocated to the Tampa area. We always wondered what ride their orange grove was on top of!

[Tommy Carcetti]

12. Disney also contributed to a lot of sprawl and ecological mess in Central Florida.

And Reedy Creek enabled it.

I understand that it has been a major economic catalyst for the region, but there's a major downside to what Disney did and how they did it.

Carl Hiaasen's Team Rodent is a good read on the whole sordid deal.

https://www.amazon.com/Team-Rodent-Disney-Devours-World/dp/0345422805

(Note: Not endorsing DeSantis' behavior here, and certainly not the disgusting legislation that underlies it, nor am I criticizing Disney's decision to criticize it. But Disney as a whole has not always been a progressive corporation.)

[rockfordfile]

15. You're supporting the Nazi DeSantis.

[Tommy Carcetti]

19. No, I just never had much love for Disney World in the first place

I mean, what DeSantis is doing could backfire against him, and that's fine too.

But I don't have many tears to shed for Disney World.

[IronLionZion]

25. Probably destroyed a lot of wetlands and killed wildlife habitats

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. I'm sure Florida Republicans are really concerned about that.

[IronLionZion]

36. The "small government" party is super concerned about self governing territories

the pro-business party is concerned that a big business has too much autonomy in their state

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. They gave that exemption I believe in 1966.

Central Florida didn't have the infrastructure to support Disney World.

[ancianita]

48. The biggest killer of the Everglades ecosystem is the Fanjul family sugar monopoly in FL and DR.

They are THE biggest polluters. And unlike Disney they use migrant slave labor.

[DinahMoeHum]

43. Parts of Route 192 south of WDW are called "Motel Hell"

New book dropped in October 2021 worth checking out:

Sunbelt Blues - The Failure of American Housing

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250804235/sunbeltblues

Once the main approach to Disney World, where vacationers found lodging on their way to the Magic Kingdom, the fifteen-mile Route 192 corridor in Osceola has become a site of shocking contrasts. At one end, global investors snatch up foreclosed properties and park their capital in extravagant vacation homes for affluent visitors, eliminating the county’s affordable housing in the process. At the other, underpaid tourist industry workers, displaced families, and disabled and elderly people subsisting on government checks cram themselves into dilapidated, roach-infested motels, or move into tent camps in the woods.

[Tommy Carcetti]

49. The Florida Project is an excellent movie that centers around this.

Filmed locally, no less.

[RamblingRose]

17. Any chance Universal would join in standing up to the FL legislature? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Have no clue. They are another corporation with California roots.

Last edited Thu Apr 21, 2022, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)

[qazplm135]

21. Universal doesn't get the same privilege

so they wouldn't have standing, in fact, this goes to their benefit as it removes something that benefited Disney over them.

[RamblingRose]

27. but they employ a LOT of people in central Florida. On the other hand, they may see Disney's stance

as benefiting them.

[qazplm135]

31. Again

you need standing, and there's been no action taken against Universal.

The problem here is that Disney is the only entity with standing because this was a unique, and I would argue, pretty corrupt single deal set up that they are now revoking.

For absolutely the wrong reasons yes, but Universal doesn't have a claim here.

[qazplm135]

20. so we have two issues

1. The setup was corporate corruption. It was ridiculous and should have been ended long ago.

2. The Republicans in Florida ain't doing it for that reason, they are doing it because Disney had the temerity to be against a political issue they favor.

Both are very problematic. The latter probably more so because of both the precedent and chilling effect of businesses from every having a voice in the future, and more legitimate business practices being curtailed or attacked by the party for dissension.

[Tommy Carcetti]

24. Yeah, it's a neither-nor situation for me. nt

[SergeStorms]

28. I hope Disney sticks it right up his ass.

All this because republicans hate LGBTQ humans, as well as minorities.

It seems to me that white people are their only target audience. And certainly not all white people at that.

This is going to cost Orange County, big time. Fuck with The Mouse, The Mouse is going to fuck you right back.

Florida republicans are subhuman shitheels. I hope they all get COVID, bitten by alligators, bitten by snakes, eaten alive by mosquitoes, and are subject to shark attacks all in the same freaking day!

[ancianita]

50. Me, too. Disney symbolizes the Democratic vote to right wingers in Florida, and DS's drama is

for the Republican base. He's practicing a combo of Putin-Trump bullying as a fake show of power.

We all need to seriously donate to and vote for Val Demings.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

35. I worked for Disney.

They have deep pockets and lots of lawyers. I wouldn't mess with them. They don't lose, they win.

[Chainfire]

44. For DeSantis, it is a win, even if he loses in court. He is proving his credentials

the the party of the destroyers. It is working because everyone is talking about it.

DeSantis knows that he can not win the White House without the votes of the far right wing of the party, so he is playing to them and hoping that the centrists will understand and forgive him. If history tells us anything, he is probably right.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

55. That's all true.

[mainer]

37. Disney can start by relocating cruise ship port

Ships are easy to relocate

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. They also produce movies there.

They can bring that back to CA.

[sop]

41. DeSantis is a disputatious troll, manufacturing one controversy after another to stand out from

the crowded field of Republican primary candidates anticipated in '24. By taking on all the extreme right's culture wars' boogeymen, he hopes to increase his national popularity and gain a lot of free media attention in the process.

[ancianita]

53. So what. Florida was the cow capital of the U.S. in the 50's, not Texas. A little known fact.

Otherwise, I'm totally with you about Disney.

[DownriverDem]

54. Too Bad

Disney can't just pick up and leave Florida.

[nwliberalkiwi]

64. Shutdown

What if Disney announced that it was shutting down until a better political climate came about. That would just screw the Republicans and make Florida more of a shit hole. The Gov would shit his pants. Disney could write the loses off of their taxes and use the time to do necessary maintenance. Fuck the shit hole Florida.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. There's a lot they could move back to CA, including movie production and administration.

[tishaLA]

57. Jason Johnson is on Nicolle Wallace's show right now

Speaking the truth about this. Disney is more or less getting what it bargained for: they played both sides of the aisle constantly, giving money to Biden and money to the twice impeached one term loser and treated them as if they were equal; they gave money to DeSantis and money to Gillum, and on and on.

And Disney had the nerve to make public statements critical of Gov Newsom during the pandemic because they were so hell bent on getting their amusement park open, whatever the implications to public health might be. When they didn't get their way, they made a big show of transferring several hundred jobs from FL to CA, with the unstated messages that more could follow if Newsom didn't acquiesce.

So, sure, DeSantis is terrible but Disney ain't so great, either. They couldn't even be bothered to speak out against the Don't Say Gay bill until it had passed the legislature and they had employees in open revolt. They need to fix themselves and decide where they actually stand.

[Warpy]

58. First time I saw Orlando was when I hit the air. My parents moved soon after

Second time was 1955 when they decided to do a driving tour of the whole state on a prolonged vacation, my dad getting some down time between a good job and a better job. It was the then futuristic architecture in Miami Beach, the glass bottomed boats in Silver Spring (loved those), the water ski show at Cypress Gardens, and so forth. I remember Orlando as a small city, plenty of amenities but a little on the sleepy side. There was a nice park with a pond full of waterfowl. People had started moving in, so there was tract housing, but not the endless miles and miles of it, punctuated by tacky strip malls and chain restaurants. It wasn't really a cow town, either, it was a little too big for that. It was the central jumping off spot to other places in Florida, thanks to their foresight in building their first municipal airport in 1928 (looked that one up).

So there was a lot to it before Disney moved in. You wanted cow towns, you had to go elsewhere. There were plenty of ranches, cows, cowboys, and cow towns in central Florida. Disney located near Orlando precisely because it wasn't a cow town. I saw it before and after. It was a small tropical city with a medical center before. It was a sprawling suburban megalopolis after.

Even if Disney blew a corporate fit and closed tomorrow (they won't, they know Gov. Death Sentence is just a bad stink passing through), it wouldn't kill Orlando, although it would hurt.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Orlando is second only to Las Vegas in convention space and hotel rooms.

I don't believe they're coming for Universal, Legoland, and Gatorland. The Mouse isn't going anywhere but if it did it would likely create a recession and massive unemployment in Central Florida.

[paleotn]

59. Quite unfair for Disney....

But personally, it makes no never mind to me. No offense, but I wouldn't set foot in FL if my life depended on it.

[SpankMe]

61. I've been to Orlando. Some of it is still a cow town.

Kidding aside, the OP is right. Whether you're for or against Disney (they have a lot of critics) it's clear that Disney in Florida is responsible for over 200,000 jobs directly and indirectly.

When Democratic leadership at the local or state level attempts to impose labor/safety standards on business, or environmental regulation, Republicans have reliably freaked out at "government's attempts to interfere with and shut down business because Democrats hate America". Same thing with laws that prevent or punish businesses from committing fraud or screwing the consumer...because legislators (both D and R, but mostly R I'd argue) take donations from business in exchange for this pro-business legislation, I'd say this is the equivalent of business running the government.

Republicans have implemented ALEC-authored legislation - which comes straight from big business - that hamstrings government at all levels.

And DeSantis has the gall to say he doesn’t "support special privileges in law just because a company is powerful." Apparently he's forgotten about the gun industry and the oil industry.

Fuck DeSantis and fuck Republicans everywhere.

[Fla Dem]

62. Well said. I hope all those who work directly for & those who benefit from Disney, understand this.

Big need to GOTV in Fl mid terms and in 2024. Unfortunately I live in St Johns county. It's about 25% Dem based on the 2020 election. Even if all the Independents and "other" were added to the Democratic total (and we know they don't all vote Democratic), the Republicans hold almost a 20,000 vote advantage and a 55% to 45% spread.

Very discouraging. The worse part is it's the 55+ age group holds the biggest spread and that age group continues to migrate to Florida so I don't see those numbers changing anytime soon.

[maddiemom]

65. I recall driving from the Gulf Coast over to Sebring for the races in the early Seventies.

Last edited Fri Apr 22, 2022, 10:46 AM - Edit history (3)

Just open ranch land; pretty desolate..