France and Germany have armed Russia with nearly $300 million worth of military equipment

[speak easy]

Report: Russia Likely Using French, German Military Gear in Ukraine

France and Germany have armed Russia with nearly $300 million worth of military equipment that is “likely being used in Ukraine,” according to an exclusive report, based on European Commission data, in The Telegraph, a British newspaper.

The hardware was sent, the newspaper reports, despite a European Union-wide embargo on arms to Russia that was imposed following the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014.

Germany has defended the sales, saying the items were "dual-use" equipment and that Russia had said they were needed for civilian, not military use.

The newspaper said the equipment sent to Russia included “bombs, rockets, missiles and guns.” French firms also sent “thermal imaging cameras for more than 1,000 Russian tanks as well as navigation systems for fighter jets and attack helicopters,” The Telegraph reported.

https://www.voanews.com/a/report-russia-likely-using-french-german-military-gear-in-ukraine/6541892.html

Of course Germany can't supply bombs, rockets, missiles and guns to Ukraine. They've sold off all their surplus stock

[SunSeeker]

1. That is fucked up.

It's outrageous that so many countries sold Russia weapons after it invaded and annexed Crimea.

[Frustratedlady]

2. When I first read this, I had to smile. Then, I read it again and saw that the items were sent to

RUSSIA. WTH? Bombs, rockets, missiles and guns are dual purpose? Russia have more oligarchs to kill?

That is scary. What is going to happen if France elects that woman on Sunday? Will Germany cut off their gas/oil deliveries from Russia?

[speak easy]

4. What exactly are dual use missiles?

[brer cat]

3. "bombs, rockets, missiles and guns"

are for civilian use?

[Xipe Totec]

6. Technically, yes, since they're bombing civilians - Russian's consider it civilian use.

[rpannier]

18. Of course. How else are you expected to get the mold off your walls

[bucolic_frolic]

5. The profit in war is still the profit in war

Taxpayers pay, workers pay taxes, materiel is destroyed, people die. It's a vicious cycle.

[mitch96]

12. As Gen. Smedly Butler said...

[oldsoftie]

7. Well finally something that WE won't be blamed for.

Seel them weapons, chain yourself to their energy & now express SHOCK that the shit has hit the fan

[gab13by13]

8. Need some kind of penalty from NATO,

this is bs.

[Samrob]

9. War is still a racket! nt

[The Magistrate]

10. Dates Would Be Useful, Sir

Their omission suggests the deliveries are not current.

I have seen reports Russian production of major armaments has recently had to cease due to lack of imported components under current sanctions.

[speak easy]

11. 2015 - 2020

I had to go to the original source.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/22/exclusive-france-germany-evaded-arms-embargo-sell-weapons-russia/

[The Magistrate]

15. So Pretty Much A Dead Letter Then

[speak easy]

16. Not if those same weapons are being used to kill Ukrainians today.

Those responsible for flouting the 2014 embargo should be held to account.

[The Magistrate]

21. What Does 'Held To Account' Mean Here, Sir?

Companies did something that violated a regulation. This is more token fine territory than lock 'em up and ditch the key stuff. As the man said "A capitalist well sell you the rope to hang him."

Given the rates at which Russian equipment is being converted to scrap or come under new management, any benefit Russia gained is at best ebbing dast.

[speak easy]

27. Example March 2021 - a prison sentence and 8 million Euro fine in Germany.

https://globalinvestigationsreview.com/guide/the-guide-sanctions/second-edition/article/eu-sanctions-enforcement

[The Magistrate]

28. Glad To Hear It, Sir

The case seems to have involved outright fraud, as opposed to mere stretching of a definition.

It never bothers me to see a businessman jailed, I need convincing any of them ought to be walking free. It might not cheer me up so much were it more common....


"Optimists know bitter disappointments. Pessimists get pleasant surprises."

[rpannier]

19. The Embargo was set in 2014

The Germans were selling their civilian use bombs after that date

[speak easy]

20. and 'dual-use' missiles

[The Magistrate]

22. And They Should Not Have, Sir

Raking it up at present is mere shit-stirring.


"It was his life's work to announce the obvious in terms of the scandalous."

[paleotn]

23. An intelligence failure by the Germans and French...

to properly understand the Crimea and Donbas invasions and what Putin was really up to. As big an intel failure as the Russians thinking the Ukraine invasion would be a cakewalk. If they viewed Russia as still no real threat to it's neighbors even after those 2014 invasions, there was no real problem in their minds continuing economic ties, even selling them weapons components. And the money. Don't forget the money. One of the reasons German leaders looked liked they'd been smacked in the head as Russian tanks rolled towards Kyiv. The dumbfounded stare from being blindsided by their own foolishness.

[The Magistrate]

24. I Agree, Sir

You put the matter very well.

[Hav]

13. I was about to mention that

It's hard to believe that 10 EU countries armed Russia during this conflict when all of them have clear positions in regards to the war against Ukraine.

[jaxexpat]

14. My fellow Americans, we should be wary of moral indignation at times like this.

Industrial nations have to make a buck too, you know. The US, in its role as the most weaponized population in the world, keeps its business "in house". Other, "poorer" nations, like France and Germany, are forced to peddle their excess arms in order to maintain their weapons industry. It is, as our national heroes, the Corleone family, would say, "just business".

[speak easy]

17. AFAIK the U.S. did not sell weapons to Russia

after the 2014 arms embargo. What exactly is a 'dual-use' missile?

[jaxexpat]

25. That's easy. It's a goddamned obfuscating lie that nobody's called them on.

I'd say that any US arms dealer who sold weapons to Russia would not be advertising the fact. Their Cayman Islands subsidiary? That's another thing which is guaranteed to remain undisclosed by the "right to non-disclose clause of the secret part or the US Constitution of-how-it-really-works-so-don't-tell-the-saps-because-they-wouldn't-understand, section 3, paragraph if-I-tell-you-I-have-to-kill-you.

[dalton99a]

26. France almost sold Russia two of these carriers before the Crimea invasion

The commander of the Russian Navy claimed (dubiously) the carriers would have allowed Russia to defeat Georgia in a 2008 war “within 40 minutes”; and a senior general noted the lead ship would serve in the Pacific fleet in case Russia needed to deploy troops to the Kuril islands, which remain subject to an ongoing border dispute with Japan.

Furthermore, the deal included the transfer of sensitive radar and command and control technologies—which may have been more valuable than the ships themselves.

Russia paid €893 million in advance to help seal the deal. The first Mistral was launched in 2013 and firmly on track for hand-over to the Russian Navy on November 2014. But February that year, Russian special forces and Navy personnel seized the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine.

On September 3, 2014, France announced it was freezing construction. After protracted negotiations, Paris paid back in full Moscow’s advance payment and sent back the Russian-built equipment. Russia also kept 150,000 pages of technical documents, which may inform the design of two planned domestic Priboy (Surf)-class amphibious carriers.

in August 2015, Paris sold the ships to Cairo (which benefited from Saudi financing) for the bargain price of 950 million euros. The two vessels were transferred to the Egyptian Navy in 2016 and are now named the ENS Anwar El Sadat and Gamal Abdel Nasser after past Egyptian presidents. The Egyptian Mistrals came without armaments, so Egypt improvised by placing Avenger anti-aircraft Humvees armed with Stinger missiles for air defense on their flight decks.

[llashram]

29. greed

[Duppers]

32. Absolutely! THAT'S IT!

The whole damn world is greedy.

[rockfordfile]

30. un-fucking real. Arming our enemies

[Xolodno]

31. And your point is?

Our record hasn't exactly been stellar either.

Top it off, we pressured France to cancel its sale of two helicopter carriers to Russia (and was forced to sell them at a fire sale to Egypt). Then we screwed them over by usurping a contract Australia had with France for submarines.

And I got news for you, after this war is over, they will quietly drop the sanctions and trade with Russia again.