Lysistrata, or On Women Withholding Sex From Men To Leverage Power

[intrepidity]

How about having a conversation on this topic? Afterall, it's older than the hills, and there's nothing new under the sun.

And before you say: women enjoy sex, too! Please. That misses the point.

The point being: biology is unfair. So far, at least, women are the ones that must carry the burden and responsibility of pregnancy. That a priori makes this a conversation of inequality.

So, how about it? Can we discuss it?

Seems to me that if men want to deprive women of bodily autonomy, then women might want to deprive men of something they also desperately want.

What's the problem with this strategy?

[leftstreet]

1. This is embarrassing

Women have free agency to enjoy sex

It's not a fucking weapon

[intrepidity]

4. Sex is one of the oldest weapons on this planet

Opting to not use that weapon is, of course, a choice.

That's the discussion here.

[TheRealNorth]

18. Not sure emulating Cersei Lannister is a look you want to go with...

[intrepidity]

33. If it gets Jamie Lannister in my bed...

oops sorry, did I say that out loud?

[leftstreet]

25. What's the punishment for anti-abortion women?

Should their husbands withhold sex?

These threads that assume women are vending machines dispensing sex as a treat are gross

[intrepidity]

36. Raise their taxes so society can support all those children?

I don't know, how *does* one motivate such people? That's what we're discussing.

[Skittles]

45. thank you

I can't believe the antiquated dea that sex is something men take and women give is being circulated on DU

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. I'm afraid sex is used as a weapon a lot. On both

sides.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Rapists use their penis as a weapon.

[leftstreet]

29. Has nothing to do with the OP

You're right, yes they do.

But the OP is about voluntarily 'withholding' sex to make some kind of statement

[intrepidity]

38. And their sperm, too.

Forcing women to bear the children of their enemies has often been used as powerful weapon.

[iemanja]

50. It sure as hell is

Look at the Ukraine.

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. Only Republican men that are sleezebags. And Incels.

Last edited Wed May 4, 2022, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

The other guys are fine.

[herding cats]

9. That's what I said in the other thread.

If you're getting down with someone who supports your right to choose and respects your right to have privacy and autonomy over your own body, what good would this do?

If you're having sex with a knuckle dragging misogynist who thinks they have rights then stop right fucking now! You can do way better than that jerk.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. Unfortunately there are women who are attracted to

that raw too much testosterone kind of guy. There is something to be said for pure lust but one can find manly man Democrats, too.

[herding cats]

3. See this thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216656645

[intrepidity]

11. It's amazing how frequently meta hijacks threads

I say, either discuss the topic or don't. But why must the discussion inevitably devolve into a condemnation of the discussion of the topic? I never understand that.

[Efilroft Sul]

6. Motto: Back off and jack off

It fits that bumper sticker criterion, at least.

[TheRealNorth]

20. Lol

Or
"You have a big, strong left hand- use it"

[Efilroft Sul]

47. In their most private moments, all Republican men are "leftists."

[sarisataka]

7. .

[Sympthsical]

8. Women's inequality is also older than the hills

Don't think we should be examining the virtues of that either.

[mcar]

10. Why would I withhold sex from my

pro-choice, staunch Democrat husband of 37 years?

[intrepidity]

12. Well, I think personally, you wouldn't

And that's fine.

[Deep State Witch]

13. Let's Think About This for a Second

Okay, it probably worked in ancient Athens, where women were treated worse than slaves. It may even have worked in the 1960's. However, there are some things to take into consideration.

1. What if a woman's partner is pro-choice? My husband is pro-choice. The only reason that he doesn't march with me is that he doesn't like crowds. Should I withhold sex to punish him for what some Republican man is doing?

2. LGBTQ+ people. Lots more of them than there were years ago. They're affected by this, too. I mean, you think that SCOTUS is gonna stop at abortion rights? Gay rights are on the chopping block, too!

3. Domestic violence situations. If "denying your anti-choice partner marital relations" is gonna have them commit violence against you, please get out of that situation if you can.

4. How many people are randomly hooking up these days, anyway? I may be a middle-aged White lady, but I grew up in the 80's, where the idea was to get it on with as many people as possible. These days, you never know what kind of viruses someone has! Between AIDS, COVID, and STD's, hooking up is risky business.

[intrepidity]

21. Thank you for engaging with the topic

Firstly, it seems even more apropo now than in Lysistrata, because in this case, there's a direction connection--cause/effect--of sex and pregnancy/abortion.

Now, to your points:

1) I think those private exceptions may be ok; unless one thinks that their SO might be spurred to some concrete actions (eg, GOTV efforts, etc) with the right incentives? Just thinking outloud.

2) One thing at a time.

3) You said it yourself: get out regardless.

4) Don't know enough to comment.

In the end, it'd mainly be a PR tactic, to get men to think about the issue as something that very directly affects them personally.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Lysistrata is a comedy, not a history

Basing your tactics on fiction from 2,400 years ago is a pretty desperate dice throw.

If you think there are couples that this would actually have an effect on (ie the woman is pro-choice, and the man isn't), then I'd think few such women are on DU.

[LuckyCharms]

14. I'll discuss this, because I was thinking about this today.

There seems to be a notion floating around out there that straight men will fuck any woman that is available to him.

There seems to be a notion floating around out there that most men like to see how high they can get their body counts (ie: how many women they can have sex with).

There seems to be a notion out there that men let the little head do the thinking, instead of the big head.

All of those notions are true...if the man happens to be a complete fucking asshole and a failure at life.

The vast majority of men do not use women as sex objects. Most men know that if a woman is not enthusiastic about having sex with them, then the sex is going to suck anyway.

Most men care about satisfying their partner more than satisfying themselves.

And many men can't have an orgasm unless they know that their partner is satisfied.

So I guess that "withholding sex" might be an option for women who are paired with the very few men who are fucking assholes.

But for the majority of healthy relationships where both men and women are reasonable human beings with actual emotions, "withholding sex" doesn't mean much, because if things get to that point, there's much bigger issues that need to be addressed.

[LuckyCharms]

40. Your response is one of those that I

don't quite understand, but I'm laughing anyway because I'm sensing it is funny

I'm a bit out of it mentally today...got put on a new blood thinner, on top of my existing blood thinner, and I cut myself shaving a few moments ago and I feel like I'm bleeding out.

But I wanted to respond to let you know that I take no offense to you apparently busting my balls because you wrote the word "KIDDING". Truth be told, I love getting busted on, makes for good banter!

Hope you are doing good, Chin music!

[intrepidity]

26. I think you got it here:

So I guess that "withholding sex" might be an option for women who are paired with the very few men who are fucking assholes.

Although, I think I could take issue with the use of "very few" to describe that demographic. Sure, not the majority either, but somewhere in between.

[LuckyCharms]

31. Well, that seems to be the consensus, but I do not currently

know any men like that, and have known only a very few like that in the past.

Personally, I'm 63, have had sex with no more than 8-10 women in my entire life, and never had a "hook up", or one night stand, that I can recall.

The guys I am friends with are the same way. One of them has only had sex with one woman.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying what I know based upon my own life experience.

[obamanut2012]

15. Jfc no! Can we stop this stuff now

God.

[intrepidity]

28. If you're asking if we can stop discussing a topic, then

the answer is "no" from me. People engage in discussions for a purpose. If it doesn't suit you, abstain. But do you really want to tell others that they cannot, or shouldn't, discuss a topic. Why?

[Model35mech]

37. It's all about anger and signalling anger... angry outbursts like this

will only be picked up by hostile legislators and hostile websites who want to mock it.

Mostly this sort of message will be pretty much ignored by every member of Congress and most State Legislature. I have no idea how that helps any democratic or independent member of Congress make a better argument for abortion protections in future legislation.

I understand venting, I'm sorry that needs to broadly disparage men, but that's part of what happens. Mostly I think there are millions of men who support Choice and are willing to contribute to saving it and who will work and donate to get self-determination rights for a number of causes into a Constitutional Amendment.

Being denied the right to determine your own path when it harms the person wanting to make a choice, but effects no government interest is wrong and needs to be codified as such.

[maxsolomon]

17. The problem with the strategy is that

it won't impact the men who have any ability to impact this issue. Pro-Choice women generally have pro-choice partners who are on the same team. They're not crafting Anti-choice laws in Red State legislatures.

The Roe ship has sailed; we're seeing the fruits of a decades-long project. The SCOTUS was lost when Obama didn't fight back against McConnell's obstruction, and the dipshits of America put Trump in office, and RBG held on until she died too soon.

Lysistrata was fiction, but, hey, go for it. I'm sure you'll get a lot of support from Gen Z.

[TheRealNorth]

23. Exactly

This is Democrats and Democratic-leaning people engaging in a circular firing squad.

[intrepidity]

30. Thank you for engaging on the topic.

That was all I intended with this thread.

Your points are all compelling.

[brooklynite]

19. And who's depriving the women who supported/campaigned for/voted for abortion bans?

[Wounded Bear]

22. Most of the women who need to do this are forced birthers...

[intrepidity]

32. I wonder how many of our assumptions are false

I'm thinking of the women in deep red territory, who vote R every time, but who have also secretly terminated a pregnancy. I suspect those numbers are large. There must be a massive PR campaign--stunt even!--to get their attention ASAP.

[Kaleva]

34. This assumes women who support freedom of choice are in relationships with men who don't

Otherwise, what good will such an action be?

Women who aren't pro-choice won't do such a thing.

[beaglelover]

35. Won't men just masturbate to get the relief they need?

Why yes, they will!

[intrepidity]

41. How many pregnancy/abortions have been caused that way?

I'm guessing like zero.

[Kaleva]

44. won't many of the men just hook up with other women?

Infidelity isn't uncommon.

[intrepidity]

49. I would view it more as a PR event to raise awareness

The right excels at outrageous publicity stunts, and it works for them, if only to get eyeballs.

[tirebiter]

39. There is a functional loophole

[Skittles]

43. sex as a weapon is ridiculous

can we fix the REAL problems without playing stupid games?

[NickB79]

46. Are there a lot of fiercely pro-choice women screwing Trumpers these days?

Because otherwise it's just liberal women punishing liberal men to teach rabid conservatives a lesson somehow.

[iemanja]

51. That assumes Republican women care enough to do something

It does no good for Democrats, since Democratic men already support abortion rights. Sure, some think it's all about them rather than us, but they don't vote pro-choice.

[meadowlander]

52. Please stop. It's a concept for a 2500 year old screwball comedy not an actual policy position.

What's the problem with this strategy?

Sex shouldn't be about power or if it is that should be on an explicitly consensual basis. Healthy respect-based sexuality should be about two (or more) consenting people who have genuine feelings for each other and want to express those feelings in a safe way that meets everyone's needs. As soon as you start leveraging sex for power, you turn what might have been a healthy relationship into a conditional power exchange which the other person did not consent to.

Also, some people are asexual. Your strategy is based on outdated stereotypes about all men craving sex insatiably and that women are the gatekeepers. This is a massively harmful stereotype for both men and women.

And you are never going to get 100% of women on board. The actual problem is that 30% of the white male population has a disproportionate influence on laws in this country. You're not going to solve that by the 60-70% of women who were probably never going to sleep with those men anyway announcing that they are withholding sex from them.

So it's not a serious strategy. It's a very old and tired joke that perpetuates fucked up attitudes to sex, men and women and ignores the existence of queer people. Can we put it to rest already?

[TreasonousBastard]

53. As someone who has actually attempted to update...

Lysistrata to a modern comedy, I would say some here are taking the idea far too seriously.

It's been a comedy for over 2,000 years, and a comedy it shall remain for another 2,000, especially with expected advances in artificial penises.

The point of comedy is to point out the imbecilities of life and to laugh at them. Shock is a common method of such pointing.

C'mon-- if you ever lived in a household like the Ricardos or the Bundys, no matter how hard you laughed you knew it wasn't real. (or hoped it wasn't real)

[tirebiter]

54. Somebody must really dig

Makeup sex, is all I can figure.