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H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
Fri May 27, 2022, 12:39 PM May 2022

What's Going On

"There is, however, an important difference between individual and social mental illness, which suggests a differentiation between two concepts ..."
-- Erich Fromm; The Sane Society.


The first documented writing about seeing the forest for the trees is found in John Haywood's writings, I believe from the 16th century. It's been a long time since I sat in a university classroom, but I do remember that in discussions of the differences between the concepts of psychology and sociology. One's focus is the individual tree, and the other the forest. Fromm's classic 1955 book intertwined the two in a manner that remains valid.

Towards the end of my career, the word "dysfunction" became a polite word for "pathology," meaning the cause of sickness. Let's look at some of the pathogens that, if an individual or individuals in a family system suffer from, allow us to view that family system as dysfunctional. Substance abuse, mental illness, other serious illnesses, personality disorders, a death in the family, the loss of a job, poverty, and domestic violence. Some cause temporary disruptions and others are entrenched. Others, such as mental illness or, say, cancer, can be treated, allowing the family system to regain balance.

The important factor, for this discussion, is that a single individual (psychology) can cause dysfunction within the family (sociology). Now, let's apply this same thinking to a neighborhood, a community, and a country. There is a tipping point where the number of dysfunctional individuals and families allows us to define that neighborhood, community, and/or nationas dysfunctional (sociology).

In a sick society, as in sick individuals, there is often a twisted interpretation of both social norms and formal laws. Let's consider an example. Does anyone really believe that Amendment 2 is intended to protect the rights of Payton Gendron and Salvador Ramos? To provide them with the weapons of mass murder? If a family allows a sick member to access such a weapon, and does nothing to stop him, does that family not have some responsibility when he goes on a rampage? Would anyone take them seriously if they spoke of his Amendment 2 rights? And would it not be obscene if the responsible family members offered their "thoughts and prayers" for the victims?

There is a great deal of focus on the police response at the school. That is important for a number of reasons. I'm not going to comment directly on their response, as it is such an emotional issue, and I respect everyone's right to react as they see fit. But I will say this: there are distinctions between various groups within police forces, with SWAT teams being far more capable of responding to a horror like this, than the average officer. That same difference demands society's attention when people say there should be an armed cop in every school. Or arm teachers. Hostile situations aren't like a shooting range. They require sharp-shooters. Hostage situations require trained negotiators.

I note that many of the police chiefs across the country support laws to restrict the ability of Gendron or Ramos to easily access the weapons of mass murder. That is an area where I, as a member of the Democratic Party, can identify some common ground as we approach the November elections. More, there are police chiefs who talk about how cuts in mental health services such as case management results in their forces having to deal with issues they are not trained to deal with. And the unfortunate changes in PINS services.

The social pathologies that combine to create the conditions we are confronted with will not be resolved by way of a single change in law, although those changes are indeed an essential element in making progress. To change laws, we need to change who gets elected to represent us, rather than representing the NRA. And to do that requires the best efforts of each of us.

Peace,
H2O Man

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What's Going On (Original Post) H2O Man May 2022 OP
Thanks for this perceptive post!! Karadeniz May 2022 #1
Thank you! H2O Man May 2022 #3
K&R n/t ms liberty May 2022 #2
Thanks! H2O Man May 2022 #4
Yes, it's more than just guns. It's American pathology. It's toxic masculinity. Novara May 2022 #5
Right. H2O Man May 2022 #6
In college I took a course on Ezra Pound. cachukis May 2022 #7
Thank you! H2O Man May 2022 #8

Novara

(5,841 posts)
5. Yes, it's more than just guns. It's American pathology. It's toxic masculinity.
Fri May 27, 2022, 01:24 PM
May 2022

It's a lot of uniquely American sociological ills and they all contribute. But the damage can be limited if we start with banning these types of weapons and limit gun ownership to self-defence pistols and single shot hunting rifles.

Fixing our sociological pathology is a much harder thing to do, although strengthening the social safety net WILL definitely help and it would be a good place to start. Supporting people, supporting families. Getting away from this idiotic go-it-alone independent mindset (and I say this as a fiercely independent person). Fostering a sense of community responsibility. ALL of that will go a long way to neutralizing some of the poison in our society.

I am of the mindset that Reagan and his brand of racism, hating "the other," and "government is the problem" set this all in motion. It has metastasized since then. The countries where these shootings are rare or nonexistent all have the elements I outlined above, which collectively produces a society that supports all people. A strong social safety net. Limiting the isolation of its citizens. A sense of community.

I refuse to believe that this is never possible. But it is impossible as long as republicans are elected.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
6. Right.
Fri May 27, 2022, 01:59 PM
May 2022

I entered a lot of homes with "dysfunction" over the decades. The first thing I wanted to be sure of was that there were not guns or other potential weapons there. I brought a number of graduate students out in the field with me, and always stressed that this was the first step in safety for everyone. You can't really address other issues without that coming first.

cachukis

(2,238 posts)
7. In college I took a course on Ezra Pound.
Fri May 27, 2022, 02:37 PM
May 2022

He was one of the first to translate the philosophies of the ancient Chinese.
I recall analyzing a piece and how it came out that Confucius was trying to determine who/what was more important, the individual or the society. Confucius or the philosopher determined that if he/she was the last person on Earth no one would care. One has no purpose if it cannot be shared.
The fallacy of individual rights undermines the success of a society. We are all in this together and when we ignore that in defence of our tribe, we get what's coming.
We, who prefer democracy, have ourselves to blame for playing by the rules.
After Socrates was found guilty by the Gang of 30 they sent him back to his cell. They left his door ajar.
He drank the hemlock anyway to defend the rule of law.
When the rule of law is gone, so are we.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
8. Thank you!
Fri May 27, 2022, 07:48 PM
May 2022

Very interesting!

When I worked with Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman, he said that the traditional way to raise children is to teach them to think for themselves, and act for others.

Merton's book on Gandhi is a wonderful blend of East and West.

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