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In It to Win It

(8,254 posts)
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:45 PM Jun 2022

It's Hard to Overstate the Danger of the Voting Case the Supreme Court Just Agreed to Hear

The Supreme Court on Thursday agreed to hear Moore v. Harper, an “independent state legislature” theory case from North Carolina. This case has the potential to fundamentally rework the relationship between state legislatures and state courts in protecting voting rights in federal elections. It also could provide the path for election subversion in congressional and presidential elections.

The issue presented in this case has been a recurring one in recent years. Two parts of the Constitution—Article I, Section 4 as to congressional elections and Article II as to presidential elections—give state “legislatures” the power to set certain rules (in the Article I, Section 4 context, subject to congressional override). In cases such as Smiley v. Holm, the Supreme Court has long understood the use of the term legislature here to broadly encompass a state’s legislative process, such as the need for a governor’s signature on legislative action (or veto override) about congressional elections. As recently as 2015, in Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission v. Arizona Legislature, the Supreme Court held that the voters in Arizona could use the initiative process to create an independent redistricting commission to draw congressional districts even when the state legislature objected. The majority saw voters passing legislation via initiative as part of that legislative process.

There’s a more radical version of the idea that the legislature has power, standing on its own as a body and not part of the general structure of state government, in the independent state legislature theory.

Take the facts of the Moore case. The North Carolina Supreme Court, interpreting a provision of the state constitution protecting the right to vote, held that partisan gerrymandering violated the state constitution and required drawing fairer lines, including in congressional districts. That state court is majority Democrat, and the North Carolina General Assembly is majority Republican. The Republican legislature argued that this holding usurped its sole and plenary power to choose the manner for drawing congressional districts.

Pause on that for a moment: The theory in this extreme form is that the state constitution as interpreted by the state supreme court is not a limit on legislative power. This position would essentially neuter the development of any laws protecting voters more broadly than the federal Constitution based on voting rights provisions in state constitutions. It also goes against what Roberts wrote for the conservative majority of the court as recently as in the 2019 redistricting case Rucho v. Common Cause, when he explicitly said that “provisions in state statutes and state constitutions can provide standards and guidance for state courts to apply” regarding redistricting. As Roberts wrote, the courts have a role to play in redistricting fights:

Our conclusion does not condone excessive partisan gerrymandering. Nor does our conclusion condemn complaints about districting to echo into a void. The States, for example, are actively addressing the issue on a number of fronts. In 2015, the Supreme Court of Florida struck down that State’s congressional districting plan as a violation of the Fair Districts Amendment to the Florida Constitution.

A state supreme court—albeit a Democratic-controlled one—making a judgment about what a state constitution allows in terms of redistricting is also what happened in North Carolina. Of course, the composition of the Supreme Court has changed in the intervening years since Rucho.

What’s worse, this theory might not just restrain state supreme courts; it can also potentially restrain state and local agencies and governors implementing rules for running elections.



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It's Hard to Overstate the Danger of the Voting Case the Supreme Court Just Agreed to Hear (Original Post) In It to Win It Jun 2022 OP
"You Vote, We Decide" dalton99a Jun 2022 #1
Wait until they insist legislators pick the senators jimfields33 Jun 2022 #14
NC Republicans are KochBroRepublicans blm Jun 2022 #2
Congress and President Biden need to do something to stop this. gab13by13 Jun 2022 #3
constitution is very clear that congress can make all rules regarding elections ... msongs Jun 2022 #4
Will ignore, guaranteed. Eliot Rosewater Jun 2022 #7
...and it doesn't mention any other state entity other than the state legislature In It to Win It Jun 2022 #10
Laurence Tribe agrees (he's working on his analysis, but has echoed that of Marc Elias) hlthe2b Jun 2022 #5
If extreme gerrymandering becomes the rule in red states Red Mountain Jun 2022 #6
Can't redistrict until 2030. gab13by13 Jun 2022 #9
Not true Rstrstx Jul 2022 #22
What Exactly Can We Do? SoCalDavidS Jun 2022 #8
I liked your post until the last sentence. gab13by13 Jun 2022 #11
Our Constitution Zeitghost Jun 2022 #16
And yet, extreme measures are now the norm for this Rogue Court. n/t Mister Ed Jul 2022 #21
Extreme positions maybe Zeitghost Jul 2022 #23
KICK...this is the one folks, when the SC decides this...there is no conceivable way Eliot Rosewater Jun 2022 #12
The HOLY FUCK of cases! If the Court agrees with this bullshit theory, the only remedy is Congress In It to Win It Jun 2022 #13
In the EPA decision, gab13by13 Jun 2022 #15
The Supreme Court can't gut the constitution (in theory they can't I suppose) In It to Win It Jun 2022 #17
+1. The Six Ayatollahs have usurped our government. dalton99a Jun 2022 #19
K&R UTUSN Jun 2022 #18
This G_j Jun 2022 #20
This In It to Win It Jul 2022 #24

gab13by13

(21,359 posts)
3. Congress and President Biden need to do something to stop this.
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:51 PM
Jun 2022

I don't feel so bad now that the Senate failed to pass S1. If it had, it would have been appealed to the SC and the Court may have ruled for the states absolute right to run their own elections already, at least we have some time.

I said this about this court, that at least 2 members publicly stated in favor of the absolute right of states to run their own elections. It turns out there were 4 justices who feel that way. All the fascist court needs is for Coney Barrett to come aboard.

msongs

(67,413 posts)
4. constitution is very clear that congress can make all rules regarding elections ...
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:51 PM
Jun 2022

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators."

of course the christian taliban on the court could ignore this

In It to Win It

(8,254 posts)
10. ...and it doesn't mention any other state entity other than the state legislature
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:02 PM
Jun 2022

and that is their point.

A GOP-led state legislature that has no desire to be checked a Democratic-majority state supreme court is trying to gut the state court's ability to act when they try to enact their rigged rules and rigged maps.

hlthe2b

(102,289 posts)
5. Laurence Tribe agrees (he's working on his analysis, but has echoed that of Marc Elias)
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:52 PM
Jun 2022



https://www.democracydocket.com/alerts/u-s-supreme-court-to-review-republican-redistricting-case-about-state-legislative-power/


U.S. Supreme Court To Review Republican Redistricting Case About State Legislative Power


WASHINGTON, D.C. — Today, the U.S. Supreme Court granted a Republican petition out of North Carolina focused on the state’s congressional map, opening up review on the radical independent state legislature (ISL) theory during the Court’s next term. This theory, thus far dismissed by courts as a fringe constitutional theory, argues that state legislatures have special authority to set federal election rules, free from interference from other parts of the state government such as state courts and governors. This special authority, according to the ISL theory, means that only state legislatures can draw new congressional districts and any map passed by a state judicial system is unconstitutional. How the Court rules on this issue could shape legislatures’ power in regulating federal elections — and the checks and balances on this power — for years to come.

The ISL theory was pushed by North Carolina Republicans when state courts enacted a remedial congressional map for the 2022 elections after the previous map was struck down for being a partisan gerrymander. After an emergency application seeking to block the remedial map was denied in March, legislators asked the Court to review the full case and decide “Whether a State’s judicial branch may nullify the regulations governing [federal elections] … and replace them with regulations of the state courts’ own devising.” In granting the Republicans’ petition today, at least four justices agreed that this is an important, unresolved issue that requires the attention of the Court. The case will go on the Court’s docket next term.

Red Mountain

(1,733 posts)
6. If extreme gerrymandering becomes the rule in red states
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:54 PM
Jun 2022

will blue states step up? Seems fair.

That's where the population is, anyway. Doesn't seem like a winning issue for Repubes.

SoCalDavidS

(9,998 posts)
8. What Exactly Can We Do?
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 08:55 PM
Jun 2022

It's pretty much inevitable at this point. Just like the overturning of Roe.

We need at least 2 repub justices to leave during a time when a Democrat controls Both the White House & the Senate.

And we're not going to get there by expanding the court. It simply isn't going to happen anytime soon.

And we're not going to be able to Impeach Thomas, or any of the other conservative pricks on the court.

The more we complain about what they're doing, and what they will likely do with this case, the more determined they'll be in fucking with us. If anything, they'll enjoy the fact we're pissed about it.

So sadly, this is where we are. Because enough Americans voted for the POS, rather than the lady who may have sent some e-mails from a personal account.

gab13by13

(21,359 posts)
11. I liked your post until the last sentence.
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:04 PM
Jun 2022

Extreme times require extreme measures, there must be a way.

Zeitghost

(3,862 posts)
16. Our Constitution
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:12 PM
Jun 2022

By design, does not allow for extreme measures. That's a good thing in case you were wondering.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
12. KICK...this is the one folks, when the SC decides this...there is no conceivable way
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:55 PM
Jun 2022

to have democracy or peaceful transitions of power.

Either justices are replaced somehow, the court is increased somehow, or it is over.

In It to Win It

(8,254 posts)
13. The HOLY FUCK of cases! If the Court agrees with this bullshit theory, the only remedy is Congress
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:58 PM
Jun 2022

Congress would need to step in and make the rules but Congress is extremely dysfunctional. They can't seem to do much nowawdays.

gab13by13

(21,359 posts)
15. In the EPA decision,
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:12 PM
Jun 2022

the SC just overruled Congress. Congress created the Clean Air Act which the SC just gutted. The SC is both the Judicial and Legislatives branches of government.

In It to Win It

(8,254 posts)
17. The Supreme Court can't gut the constitution (in theory they can't I suppose)
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:23 PM
Jun 2022

The Supreme Court is rewriting the establishment clause as we speak.

If the constitution is still a thing, it gives Congress the express authority to regulate federal elections.

But that's just me saying a bunch of words that I'm not sure still apply anymore. I guess we'd have to check with the Supreme Six to ask if Congress can do that if they somehow learn how to function and assume their proper role in government.

dalton99a

(81,515 posts)
19. +1. The Six Ayatollahs have usurped our government.
Thu Jun 30, 2022, 10:47 PM
Jun 2022

They have given themselves exclusive power to decide what Congress can do, what the Administration can do, and what the American people can do.


In It to Win It

(8,254 posts)
24. This
Fri Jul 1, 2022, 12:45 PM
Jul 2022

is probably the most terrifying case.

I remember hearing about this months ago when the NC supreme court struck down the map and hearing the news that the legislature petitioned for cert, my heart dropped.

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