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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMerrick Garland Needs To Do a Press Conference
I heard this discussed yesterday, with good reasons given.
Garland needs to assure the American people that Donald Trump is the subject of a DOJ investigation.
Donald Trump has been undermining our democracy from the day he decided to run for president, the 2016 election. Enough time has passed for crying out loud. It is not just decent patriotic Americans who need to hear this, traitors who are still conspiring to overturn our democracy need to hear this.
I am not asking for Garland to indict anyone; I am asking Garland to tell the American people that Donald Trump is being investigated.
If Garland decides not to prosecute Trump, so be it, I understand why, because he is an institutionalist.
No Garland doesn't get a pass for his former speech where he said he would follow the evidence wherever it leads, he needs to spell it out clearly for dummies like me, and Adam Schiff.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)... in the way he sees fit, and not in the way others dictate his job should be done.
I have every confidence that Joe wouldn't have appointed him AG if he wasn't equal to the task - and make no mistake, Joe knew what the task would be when he chose him.
They both knew what was ahead when Biden appointed him and when he took the appointment.
gab13by13
(21,405 posts)Merrick Garland chose not to indict Trump for "individual one," the same crime that Michael Cohen went to prison for.
Merrick Garland chose not to indict Trump for the numerous obstruction of justice crimes that Robert Mueller laid out.
Merrick Garland did nothing to stop a pro-Trump, bogus, Cyber Ninja company have access to ballots, voter information, and election equipment and materials, all in violation of federal law, Title 52 which states that those materials should have remained in the possession of election officials for 22 months. Doing nothing to the Cyber Ninjas allowed the Big Lie to grow and more fraudits to spread across the country.
Merrick Garland chose to defend the office of the presidency in the E. Jeanne Carroll defamation law suit against Donald Trump. He did not have to take that case on. Is one of the official duties of the president defaming someone who is accusing him of rape?
Merrick Garland is a decent, patriotic American, but he is also an institutionalist which means he may choose to not indict Trump if he feels it would do more harm to the office of the presidency, and more harm to our nation, even if evidence warrants an indictment. I respect that opinion, Garland must consider it. It is not an easy choice to indict a former president, it is not a cut and dried choice, even if evidence warrants it.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)... Garland needs to do his job in the way he sees fit, and not in the way others dictate his job should be done.
FoxNewsSucks
(10,435 posts)on the points made above in post #6.
Criminals are still free, doing immense damage to us all.
We should all be demanding an explanation for that.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)It won't change the fact that the DOJ does not disclose nor explain whatever investigations may or may not be ongoing.
gab13by13
(21,405 posts)Clark and Eastman and the other Kraken lawyers? DOJ may not leak but we certainly find out about it in numerous other ways.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)... in numerous other ways."
Didn't you just answer your own question?
Paladin
(28,273 posts)The committee hearings are making the DOJ's comparative inaction less acceptable by the day.
Novara
(5,851 posts)Just because Garland isn't updating you doesn't mean he isn't doing anything. Sheesh, people. You have no idea what he is doing. Many of you don't even seem to understand how phenomenally careful he has to be in order to secure a conviction, how big a task this case is.
So, you are saying you'd rather he rush into indictments to please your timeline than to make sure he has a rock-solid, completely convict-able case for an ex-"president," something that's never been done in America's history? Do you not realize what a huge case this is, how it has to be done so thoroughly? Remember the saying: "if you come at the king, you best not miss"? What if he rushes into an indictment and it falls apart because he didn't take the time to gather every piece of evidence?
I repeat for the fifty millionth time: just because you don't see what he's doing doesn't mean he isn't doing something.
I am anticipating the day when he does announce the indictment of the orange fuck and you all have to admit you were wrong. By the same token, if he doesn't indict him, I will gladly admit I am wrong. Then I'm going to go out and protest like hell.
FoxNewsSucks
(10,435 posts)You have to read the whole post, not just the subject line.
Statutes of limitations have expired. Criminals faced no consequence. We deserve an explanation for that.
I'm not talking about general impatience, but specific crimes and harm to democracy that Garland allowed.
Novara
(5,851 posts)I repeat: no president has ever staged a coup to steal an election he lost after the fact of his loss. This case is absolutely unprecedented. It is also unbelievably complex, with many, many moving parts.
Just because you don't see something right in front of you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Magoo48
(4,720 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)So... I apologize if I sound a bit frustrated but... These points have been addressed repeatedly and the poster continues to put them up over and over for a very long time now. But... I can give it a go again
"Merrick Garland chose not to indict Trump for "individual one," the same crime that Michael Cohen went to prison for."
This is referring to Cohen's guilty plea in which tfg was referred to as individual-1 and why was tfg guy not prosecuted. The reason is that the only evidence against individual-1 in Cohen's word... And Cohen lied to the feds during the case... Not much of a witness to prove a case. There was no documentation or anything else to back up a charge... Just Cohen. That is why there was no prosecution.
"Merrick Garland chose not to indict Trump for the numerous obstruction of justice crimes that Robert Mueller laid out."
This is sort of true... Everything Mueller laid out, he also said was only good for Congress to try tfg guy on... The senate failed to convict, this is not a 'Garland' issue.
"Merrick Garland did nothing to stop a pro-Trump, bogus, Cyber Ninja company have access to ballots, voter information, and election equipment and materials, all in violation of federal law, Title 52 which states that those materials should have remained in the possession of election officials for 22 months. Doing nothing to the Cyber Ninjas allowed the Big Lie to grow and more fraudits to spread across the country."
This is a fantasy... There is simply no other way to put it. Lets go to the law... Federal Law Constraints
on Post-Election Audits:
Therefore, if the original election official who has custody of records covered by the Act hands over
those election records to other officials (for example, to legislators or other officeholders) or the official
turns over the records to private parties (such as companies that offer to conduct forensic
examinations), the Department interprets the Act to require that administrative procedures be in
place giving election officers ultimate management authority over the retention and security of those
election records, including the right to physically access such records. Id. In other words, the
obligation to retain and preserve election records remains intact regardless of who has physical
possession of those records. Jurisdictions must ensure that if they conduct post-election ballot
examinations, they also continue to comply with the retention and preservation requirements of Section
301.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1417796/download
Bolding mine... Also, that paragraph can be found on page 3. It is clear that states have the right to do an audit. That the ninja's were a scam is not in question... They were a scam pulled off by a repug state govt on it's citizens... A shit move but not a federal crime. They are free to hire a company with no experience. The simple fact is, DOJ has nothing to prosecute here.... Again.
"Merrick Garland chose to defend the office of the presidency in the E. Jeanne Carroll defamation law suit against Donald Trump. He did not have to take that case on. Is one of the official duties of the president defaming someone who is accusing him of rape?"
This is mostly true... But it leaves out a lot of details. This case is not about the rape, that sadly as passed the statute of limitations had passed (it happened in the mid 90's so passed around 2015), this is about defamation. In 2019, Carroll published a book recounting the rape... tfg was asked about it during a press conference by a reporter and he said a bunch of shitty things... He continued to be asked and continued to say the worst kind of shit. So... She sued him for defamation. The concept being defended here is that the President should be allowed to speak their mind when asked a question... I understand it but I completely disagree with it. Too many laws tend to be absolutist and they really should not be... Garland should have backed out of this.
I hope that explains things for you
Justice matters.
(6,941 posts)Oh, but sure, white authoritarians don't believe a woman sex worker's own words... Been like that since... (?)
Everything Mueller laid out, he also said was only good for Congress to try tfg guy on... The senate failed to convict
Mueller told Congress when asked directly, if AFTER his time in office, if he would indict. He answered "yes".
The orange criminal who still defrauds his magats across multiple states using lies, and still threatens witnesses without any accountablility was never impeached for the crime Cohen has been doing jailtime for.
Please stop flooding DU with GQP get-out-of-jail-scot-free lies. TY
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)Stormy knows what Cohen told her, she was not witness to any of the dealing tfg and Cohen had... It has nothing to do with her work, it has to do with her only able to testify to what Cohen told her.
"Mueller told Congress when asked directly, if AFTER his time in office, if he would indict. He answered "yes"."
Not exactly true... Mueller said (In response to Lieu) during testimony:
"I believe a reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met, and I'd like to ask you the reason, again, you did not indict Donald Trump is because of the OLC (the DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel) opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?" Lieu asked.
"That is correct," Mueller asked.
Late, he clarified:
"That's not the correct way to say it," Mueller said. "We did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime."
Link to both here - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/did-mueller-mean-trump-could-be-indicted-when-he-leaves-n1033901
"Please stop flooding DU with GQP get-out-of-jail lies"
These are neither lies nor the product of the GQP... Simply facts. I do not think for one second that tfg is going to be anything except charged and convicted for crimes... You can see my speculation on it here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216824291
That I do not support bringing charges that would never get a conviction does not mean anything other than I want to see a solid case, based on facts that will convict. Perhaps you should ask those that want charges that will certainly fail why they want that done?
FoxNewsSucks
(10,435 posts)Between my CRS and insufficient time away from work to really pay attention to things, I do miss explanations and events. I'm not familiar with that aspect of the cyber-ninja thing, so I should probably have said "some of the points" in post 6.
I do remember the reasoning of Cohen being a proven past liar used to rationalize not prosecuting. But I think I remember seeing a copy of the $130k check with MF45's pointy signature on it. I thought Cohen did have records, and as long as he wasn't lying about this and could prove it, the case should have proceeded. Crimes are usually prosecuted by getting one or more co-conspirators to flip, so having a known liar as a witness isn't uncommon. I would expect that prosecutors know how to make a case using evidence and testimony of liars.
As far as Mueller, he did say it was up to congress. But that was only because he felt bound by that stupid "policy" to not indict a sitting president. When asked under oath, Mueller stated if not for that he would indeed have indicted MF45. That's why he said it was up to Congress - they had to first remove tRump so he could then proceed with prosecution. That excuse should not apply to Garland, as tRump is thankfully no longer the sitting president. Once the orange anus left office, there was nothing to prevent an indictment on the charges that were laid out and ready to go.
Thanks for your info!
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)Not a problem
The Check... Yes, checks exist... Unfortunately, they prove nothing. Cohen paid Stormy out of his own pocket and tfg cut him a check. That the checks exist is not in question, nor is the fact that they came from tfg. What the problem is, is there is no evidence showing what tfg was paying Cohen for... tfg's story is that Cohen just did stuff and he paid him without asking for details....
I get it... You look at this and it seems obvious... You 'just know'. 'I know' as well. The rub comes when you have to prove it in court. The checks are not evidence of anything, in all of tfg's records it's just a payment to Cohen. for services. Sadly, the entire case would come down to one liars word against another and since there is no other evidence... It would almost certainly end in acquittal.
Mueller... I'm going to cut-n-paste in a reply to a post further up, I think it answers this but let me know if it does not:
Mueller said (In response to Lieu's question, also below) during testimony:
"I believe a reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met, and I'd like to ask you the reason, again, you did not indict Donald Trump is because of the OLC (the DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel) opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?" Lieu asked.
"That is correct," Mueller asked.
Late, he clarified:
"That's not the correct way to say it," Mueller said. "We did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime."
Link to both here - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/did-mueller-mean-trump-could-be-indicted-when-he-leaves-n1033901
Justice matters.
(6,941 posts)Link: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/hundreds-of-former-federal-prosecutors-would-indict-donald-trump
But not Garland (then, before the statute of limitations expired, and yet, after witness tampering mob-boss style, at the very, very, very tinny least).
On edit: But, but, but, the orange in-our-faces criminal is not a poor black man trying to sell a cigarette on a sidewalk...
What a effed-up "system of justice"
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)The article is talking about three specific things from the Mueller report... And it says:
"The letter says Trumps actions satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge and asserts that the evidence of corrupt intenta key element of any obstruction caseis overwhelming. We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment, its authors note. Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here. In our system, every accused person is presumed innocent and it is always the governments burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution runs counter to logic and our experience."
___________________________________________________________________________________
So... Yeah... Barr/Mueller could have gotten an indictment and might have had a 50-50 shot at a conviction. They declined so... Lets blame Garland? Good choice
Justice matters.
(6,941 posts)Garland began working as USAG.
The crimes were exposed in detail in the Mueller Report Tome II. The traitorous teflon toddler was not in office and spewing lies freely at the time and still does.
Garland had access to the Grand Jury Material of the whole investigation, which Congress has still not seen any of...
The fully un-redacted Report has been burned by barr or what?
On edit: Taxpayers paid for it.
Ohio Joe
(21,761 posts)They were who blocked congress from getting it Also when Barr was AG but Again, blame Garland Stiil a good plan
Justice matters.
(6,941 posts)Two years ago? And nobody can do anything about it?? Expand the court?
Can't do that. Revolution against the Supremely corrupt Court!
Supreme Court blocks House from seeing secret Mueller grand jury documents until hearing this fall
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/politics/mueller-grand-jury-material-democrats-supreme-court/index.html
JanMichael
(24,890 posts)kairos12
(12,873 posts)Novara
(5,851 posts)He needs to hold a press conference, sure. I agree with you on that. But announcing the target of an investigation is stupid - if gives that target a heads-up. Oh, I'm sure the orange fuck surmises the DOJ is investigating him, but to make a public announcement and make it certain would be stupid. It's better to leave the target of an investigation wondering versus spelling it out in a public manner. The reasons for this are many, but the biggest one is that you don't want the target to destroy evidence before you can get your hands on everything they've got.
Garland should make a public announcement that hints at what they are doing, and then give the same assurances he gave before about no one being above the law and following all investigative leads no matter where they lead. Yes, that is enough for now. The committee is just now starting to work with the DOJ.
I get that everyone is impatient, but you all have to be prepared that this will take a lot longer than you'd like. Wouldn't you rather have it done so comprehensively that conviction is assured versus rushing into indictments without all of the evidence? I would.
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,820 posts)and Emptywheel.net you would see that there is evidence that the Orange Monster and his subordinates are already the subjects of investigation
Magoo48
(4,720 posts)I repeat, hes on our dime; its courteous that he personally keep us informed.
gab13by13
(21,405 posts)"But other signs are not so encouraging: Department prosecutors were reportedly surprised by the testimony of Ms. Hutchinson. That is not a sign of a robust investigation into the facts. The department has more tools than Congress does to learn the truth. It could have interviewed Ms. Hutchinson long ago, as well as many others whose evidence is relevant indeed, Ms. Hutchinson alone provided investigators numerous leads to pursue."
Andrew Weissmann.
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,820 posts)podex101
(53 posts)Ladies and Gentlemen
We are talking about a big step by the the DOJ. Something that has never been done before (I think so).
An ex-president will be charge with crimes against the US Constitution. (That statement right there is significant).
The DOJ knows that when the charges come up, a million + lawyers from all directions will be digesting every single word coming from Mr. Garland.
Good luck, sir.
Tree Lady
(11,498 posts)The televised hearing was on tv at hotel I went to in lobby.
Everyone is paying attention.
gab13by13
(21,405 posts)if Speaker Pelosi had not created the select committee?
I see that the select committee is now turning over evidence to DOJ, imagine that. Where would we be?
duckworth969
(614 posts)mcar
(42,375 posts)bigtree
(86,005 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2022, 10:43 AM - Edit history (1)
...that's not how investigations and prosecutions work.
What you're positing are moves that would scuttle those prosecutions.
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)What is the point of saying it here? None of us have any connection to the DOJ, nor any influence on the DOJ, as far as I know.
Merrick Garland will do what he thinks is best, no doubt, our input notwithstanding.
It doesn't matter whether you give him "a pass" or not. Your opinion is relatively as irrelevant as mine is.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,445 posts)cally
(21,596 posts)And many times, it helps to discuss our perceptions with others. I do not believe belittling others for posting their opinions helps discourse.
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)Now, if President Biden put some pressure on him, that might make a difference, or even Nancy Pelosi. I don't know. Maybe they are doing just that. Expect something from Garland before very long. After the public hearings of the committee are done.
I am not belittling anyone. I'm voicing MY opinion to someone who almost daily posts negative crap about Garland and the DOJ. I will continue to do so, but thanks for sharing your opinion.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,657 posts)You are not entitled to have your curiosities satisfied and anxieties soothed at the expense of jeopardizing an ongoing investigation.
This isnt a long road trip to grandmas where impressionable children simply must get an answer to their demanding question are we there yet?
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,445 posts)Takket
(21,628 posts)cally
(21,596 posts)Garland needs to reassure those of us who still care about rule of law, American Democracy, and that the rich and powerful can be prosecuted, that Justice Department will follow the law. I believe Garland cares more about the Justice Department than Democracy. Im filled with despair and anger today and I believe our leaders owe us so much more than secrecy and telling us to vote. It does not meet the moment and the threat we all face.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,445 posts)AG Garland does not need to reassure us of anything, that's not his job, his job is to investigate and prosecute crimes, nothing more, nothing less.
LuckyCharms
(17,459 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2022, 05:52 PM - Edit history (1)
Anything that he may say could influence the current actions of those potentially under investigation.
Why would he say a word that may jeopardize an investigation?
Because some are impatient?
Which is more favorable? Waiting for a proper indictment that will lead to a successful prosecution...
or...
Announcing the progress he is making in investigations to appease impatience, and then killing any chances of success?