A thread in defense of Sinema and Manchin

[Johnny2X2X]

Let's take a moment and step back. Sure, we can point out their flaws, and that they're both GOP lite, there are plenty of threads for that, but both of them have been the 49th and 50th votes that has allowed Joe Biden to pass more substantial bills than any President in the last 80 years, and in less than 2 years.

They were the 49th and 50th votes on the American Rescue Plan which saved the economy and fought Covid. It was, as Bernie Sanders put it, "The most significant piece of progressive legislation in a generation." Wouldn't have happened without these 2.

They have consistently gotten there when really needed. Voted for the Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Bill which was the largest investment in US infrastructure in generations and something no other president has gotten done.

They voted for CHIPS, which was the largest government investment in an economic sector in decades. A very important bil.

They were reliable votes for the Burn Pit Bill which is one of the most substantial veterans assistance measured passed in a generation.

They've been reliable votes for judges, Biden has gotten 76 judges seated and a SCOTUS seated with the votes from both.

And now the Inflation Reduction Act. They're both on board now, this is the largest investment to fight climate change the country has ever made. Is it perfect? No. But Both Sinema and Manchin are accepting huge parts of this bill that their donors absolutely hate. But Manchin especially conceded a ton that the oil and gas industry doesn't want. There are taxes on emissions, unprecedented investment in green energy. He got some more drilling and a pipeline for those things, but overall this reduces our carbon emissions. And Manchin was always about a broad approach to energy, this helps us reduce carbon while maintaining energy independence. It's a compromise. And I especially love the reinvestment in nuclear, it's clean energy that we have evolved the technology on enough to be safe with it.

Sinema, for all the bluster, she did remove the change to the carried interest tax loophole, but let's be clear, they weren't eliminating this loophole, just changing the application of it for assets owned a minimum of 3 years to be eligible, to 5 years. She has stated she wants it totally gone and you know what? Republicans agree with her too. She agreed to the 15% minimum corporate tax, but she wanted to exempt some manufacturers, that's the change they made. And she inserted a 1% tax on stock buybacks. Hardly a terrible trade.

And in this bill there is a cap on insulin prices. Medicare negotiating for drug process, and a ton of other inflation and climate change fighting provisions.

It's not passed yet, but if/when it does, Joe Biden will have gotten more major legislation passed in less than 2 years than most Presidents have done in 8. Maybe the most since FDR. Just remarkable, and we did it with a 50-50 Senate and 2 of our 50 being extremely moderate.

SO after the weekend, I will be toasting not only Joe Biden, but Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema as well. They showed that compromise is the way to get more done than anyone thought possible.

[Beachnutt]

1. I have to hold my nose and agree with you

[Mister Ed]

2. I must grudgingly agree, and grudgingly give them their due.

But I can hardly wait to get a couple more Dem senators, and make these two irrelevant.

[Johnny2X2X]

5. Holding and expanding the Senate is a must

There are judgeships to fill for 2 years that will reshape the Federal judiciary.

It's not talked about here, but currently 52.2% of all federal judges have been appointed by Democratic Presidents. With another 2+ years of Senate Control that can easily be pushed to over 60%. They stole the SCOTUS, but we still have more federal judges now.

[we can do it]

3. Thank you for this.

[Walleye]

4. Yesterday Mitch looked like somebody pulled the football away from him

[Johnny2X2X]

6. Beautiful to see

Republicans are panicking right now, not because they think the bill will be bad for the country, but because they know the bill will be great for the country and they can't let Dems get the credit.

Reps had both houses for 2 years, and all they got done was tax cuts for the rich and to torment children at the border. Biden and the Dems transformed the country.

[texasfiddler]

7. Thank you for taking the time to put into words what needed to be conveyed to the DU community. NT

[Johnny2X2X]

8. You're welcome

I cannot even begin to put into words how incredible of a job Biden has done in getting all of this accomplished with a 50-50 Senate with 2 of our 50 being moderates. No other president could have gotten all of this accomplished. Just astounding.

[Traildogbob]

22. Yes, thank you for calming facts.

I did hear this AM on Steph’s show that the 1 percent rate will raise 10’s of millions more than one she wanted out.
Take the win, and the political clout it may give for mids.
No time for hissy fits. A time to message strong of accomplishments, win seats in both chambers and then go all in on, not just what we want, but what the country needs. What the people need. And bury this GQP criminal cult.
Thank you Joe and all that worked hard to get what is great about this legislation.
This is a “Let’s Go Joe” moment.
If we take senate big, and keep house, we go back and build on these plans, go very progressive, and fix the court. Long game here folks.
Thanks for the post.

[Johnny2X2X]

26. And it puts the GOP is an awful spot

Sure, Joe has a poor approval rating, but the GOP now can't claim, "He failed to do anything!" He got more done than any President in my lifetime. And the way they've been painting him as not getting anything done means they're going to have a tough sell to paint Joe as an "extreme leftist."

Joe is experienced, he personally took the hit politically by letting these huge bills get passed without too much fanfare. But at the end of it, if Inflation does start to ease, he's going to have a list of accomplishments for Dems to run on in November that is unprecedented in the last 80 years.

Saved the economy
Saved the jobs market
Record reduction in deficit
Record jobs creation
Record wage growth
3 massive signature bills
Got the US back on track towards its climate goals
Handled Covid

Inflation is a global issue, people are starting to see that message. Everything else is looking really good.

And Dems will have Joe's long list of accomplishments to run on and preserving body autonomy for women. It's shaping up to be a historic mid terms.

[Traildogbob]

38. 🤜🤛

[comradebillyboy]

9. I celebrate all the progress that has been made by the Biden, Schumer and

Pelosi team. For better or worse Manchin and Sinema have been integral to that progress.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

10. Yeah, well, maybe so, but ain't none of 'em mowed my lawn yet!

[xocetaceans]

11. They have interfered with the Build Back Better plan. They have interfered with removing the

filibuster. They have interfered with the Democrats being truly successful. They are not team players. To them, there is only a Team Manchin and a Team Sinema.

They should be discarded as soon as possible.

[Peregrine Took]

15. Agreed. 'Can't wait til November when we will never hear from either of them again

as they will just fade into the background.

[certainot]

34. i agree. they were pulled along very grudgingly. the delay on climate action is inexcusable. they

got on board because they realized the GOP is likely fucked and is not going to be a refuge for them.

they are both limbaugh democrats, in talk radio states where they get hammered by the many rw radio stations and the made-to-order constituencies of dittoheads they create. like claire mccaskill, losing to that traitor because she thought the dittoheads anti immigrant 'concern' was real instead of ejected out the ass of a few hundred radio assholes.

they think the assholes screaming into the phones at their staff, or thanking them when they buck the dems, are legitimate 'popular sentiment' and whether they're intimidated or enabled by them they're full of shit

[happy feet]

39. Agreed

Remember, we don't have the voting rights or George Floyd justice bills --- everyone will forget until the next time and the next time and the next time. And, they among others are against expanding this right wing theocratic supreme court.

Good they finally joined the team this time. We need more team play from them...

[llashram]

12. toast on

politically I will raise a glass with you. Yet I hold out that they seem to be terribly compromised and dangerous...

[onecaliberal]

28. 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[Mr. Sparkle]

13. You are a lot more informed than the news i watched earlier today

Great post, thanks.

[Wounded Bear]

14. All true, and if we can pass this, maybe it helps us this fall...

If we can hold the House and expand our footprint in the Senate, we can get more done in the next session. This bill increases our chances to do that.

For all of our wailing and gnashing of teeth, we've got a lot done in the last 2 years. It's incrementalism, which doesn't please the extremist leftists, but it's good solid progress.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. What's absolutely crazy is that on January 1st 2021...

We thought there was a very slim chance we'd get to 50-50 in the Senate. Those special elections hadn't happened yet. And even as the results started to come in in Georgia, it wasn't until after midnight that it started to become apparent that we would control the Senate. We were that close to a Republican controlled Senate where nothing would have passed. No American rescue plan, no bipartisan infrastructure bill (Mitch wouldn't have even debated it), and no SCOTUS, Mitch would have held it up.

[Wounded Bear]

18. Indeed! nt

[treestar]

23. Exactly, it seemed like a miracle that those two states

sent Democratic Senators from special elections.

[wnylib]

33. Two states? The election runoff that gave us the two

Senators for control of the Senate was in Georgia, where Ossoff and Warnock both won. It was January 5th. I was up all night watching the returns, so I went to bed in the morning and woke up to the Capitol attack.

[treestar]

63. I was adding Sinema and Mark Kelly

it seemed a miracle to get two D Senators from each of these 2 red states.

[wnylib]

65. But it was the last minute wins of

Georgia"s two Senators that gave us the Senate.

[BlueJac]

17. Just for doing the right thing?

I skip the praise.

[Celerity]

46. +1

[obnoxiousdrunk]

52. +1. N/T

[inthewind21]

53. Ditto

[treestar]

19. Yes, a big tent

Is going to have a lot of different types. Politics can make strange bedfellows. And they leave the gavel to Schumer, and with the Turtle NONE of that would have passed. I have my days when I read a thread and wants to punch Manchin, but at the end of the day he is a Democrat.

[Johnny2X2X]

21. I think we pick up 2+ seats in the Senate

Holding the house is a lot harder, but now is possible. But if we hold the House and make it 53-47 in the Senate, we will talk a lot less about Sinema and Manchin. Both of them probably know that too.

[cally]

20. They both have love the attention and don't mind destroying democracy

And hold too much power over voting rights and saving the planet. BUT, I agree with you. If this passes, then I praise them for going forward, voting for judges, and other Democratic initiatives. I also think they provide cover for some other Senators that I’m not sure are on board so I don’t put all the blame on them. I still hope to have a larger Senate majority, retain the House, so these two can be ignored!

[Torchlight]

24. They get pat on the back from me

for doing the minimum required effort to remain members of the Democratic caucus.

In the amusement park lines that instruct "you must be this tall to ride this" they both make it. A lot of measuring to be sure, but they both make it... and one even curtsied to us prior to getting into the roller coaster.

[bigtree]

25. what they've done to legislation in negotiations and in committee is abhorrent

...despite seeing the light on this bill, they are still a major drag on the Biden agenda and on much of the Dem Senate agenda, for that matter.

Praise is good, for what it's worth, but pressure appears more productive.

[jaxexpat]

27. Joe tapped into their vein of self-service and managed to get some legislation passed.

Too much cannot be said giving credit to the volume of hue and cry from progressives at their antics heretofore as inspiration, enlightening their voting prerequisites.

If the actual voting (supposed to start tomorrow) supports passage of the act, then all the senators who vote for it deserve some applause. Perhaps, after November, we can go back to SERIOUSLY cranking the screws down on the top 0.00001% before they cash in their deed to the nation's government and have their private militias try and perhaps succeed in taking it on that, their second, attempt.

[Bobstandard]

29. Not buying it. Sorry

They’ve only come through after causing numerous bills to be so watered down and the path to getting to approval so fraught with travail that the eventual positive outcome looked to too many like failure.

[BlueIdaho]

30. Not counting my chickens until they are hatched...

The deal Sinema agreed to alters the 15% minimum tax on corporations and allows the carried interest loophole to continue. I’m waiting to see what other billionaire friendly demands will be made when her other shoe hits the floor.

[Gisilbertus]

31. let's hope for the midterms

These two have scuttled too much of Biden's agenda to be anything but furious with them.

[Johnny2X2X]

32. And yet, Biden got more of his agenda passed than any president since FDR

He just had to break it up into several bills.

Still more he wants to get done, but what has happened in just 18 months is absolutely remarkable.

[SpamWyzer]

75. Correct

old friend.

[The Mouth]

35. You want "Democracy", then you have to accept

that they represent, to a great degree, the people they are sent to Washington to represent.

There seem to be some people who want "Democracy" as long as that means they like the people elected.

[Johnny2X2X]

36. And to play devil's advocate

Incrementalism might be just what we needed to actually get things done. And that Sinema and Manchin have saved their party from being painted as extremists effectively.

People are sick of such big swings, Biden was able to effect massive change without being painted as an extremist because he accepted compromise. He's done all of this and still kept his moderate chops mostly intact.

[TrogL]

37. I've been wondering if both of them have been playing a long game

I got really suspicious when Manchin facilitated the CHIP act then suddenly there was Build America Better-lite and Republicans were shitting the floor.

[wryter2000]

40. The tax on stock buy backs is a great idea

Manchin's concession on on the oil and gas companies is good, but why was he fighting it's to begin with? That's the best I can do for that pair. I can't wait until we have two more senators.

[appmanga]

41. Let's not get it twisted...

...these two have abused the leverage they've had over past two years and for petty, political reasons. They've extracted their pound of flesh, and some, for Kamala Harris' inexplicably going on their home state news stations to prod them.

Yes, they've been there, but they've vacillated and tied their party into knots, and made their president appear feckless and enfeebled while his opponents on the right were pushing this narrative.

Make no mistake, the fact Biden's approval rating is close to the political nether region is in part to their push-me, pull-you gamesmanship. The only reason these two are coming around is obvious to those who keep a close eye on politics: it looks like the Democrats are going to add to their number in the Senate, and the folks in their caucus (and Arizona voters) have pretty decent memories. Even with her coming on board now, lots of people in the party aren't going to forget Sinema's disregard for them and her too cute by half portrayal of "Legally Blonde Goes To the Senate".

Manchin and Sinema are graduates of the "compromise means I get my way" school of governing and both know if Republicans were in control of the Senate not one of their proposals would get the time of day. I'm glad they're Democrats, but I'll save my alcohol for some other occasion.

[The Mouth]

50. Call me cynical, but

I think *any* Senator who found themselves the deciding, swing vote in a closely tied chamber would extract every last thing from both sides they could. Maybe there are a handful of truly partisan ideologues that wouldn't be true for, but if I were a deciding vote like that, California would be getting a double toke of every doob passed around.

[Novara]

42. Nope.

These two preening fucks are blocking voting protections.

If republican states claim wins they did not earn and we devolve into fascism, will you still praise them?

[Emile]

43. If you are defending them, why does Sinema need tax evading

loop holes for hedge fund managers?

[Johnny2X2X]

44. Not sure

She's come out for eliminating those altogether. She's claiming she doesn't want it in this bill because this bill wasn't eliminating them, it was keeping them, just changing them slightly. More likely she's beholden to her donors. But at the same time, she kept the 15% minimum corporate tax, although she tweaked that to excuses some manufacturers, and she is the one who added the 1% stock buyback tax. She also added $5B to fight drought in the SW. So she is obviously a mixed bag, but she's supporting a ton of amazing things in this bill.

People are all up in arms over the carried interest tax loophole when the changes proposed made up only $14B of a $750B bill.

[yaesu]

45. LOL.

corporations and the rich have been getting everything they have wanted since the 1980's. Is it too much to ask that we the people get just one package passed without a few corporate dems chopping it up.

[Demsrule86]

47. I agree completely with you and I am not grudging either...WVA is deep red and Arizona

is maybe purple...hard to say with the MAGA shenanigans. Both Manchin and Sinema came through for us. And I am grateful and proud that Democrats can still work together for the good of the people in this divided time.

[llmart]

48. Thank you!

Politics is all about compromise as is life. Or as someone else said, you can't always get what you want.

[Johnny2X2X]

49. You're welcome

If it hadn't been a 50-50 Senate, no one would be crying about those 2, but this was a 50-50 Senate. How did Biden get several historic bills passed with a 50-50 Senate in 18 months when all Republicans could do with 2 years controlling the WH, the House, and with a 52-48 Senate was tax cuts for the rich?

It took a damned magician to get these 3 big bills, and the several significant medium sized bills through. Astounding.

[Bettie]

51. They agreed to do this bill

I am happy but I won't believe it until they actually both vote yes.

[Spazito]

54. It's interesting that the media actually went further into the weeds...

on some of the bills because of the threatened hold-outs, Sinema and Manchin. If the bills had been a sure thing from the get-go, I doubt the media would have covered as much of the bills as they have.

[Johnny2X2X]

55. I appreciate that

I mean, both sides have been talking about negotiating prescription drugs for Medicare for decades now, this gets that done. Cap on insulin prices is also in it. Things Dems have been pushing for a long time.

Between the 3 big bills, really amazing stuff. Now if we carry the midterms, Biden will have 2 years to get the rest of his agenda done.

[Spazito]

57. Yep, exactly...

I don't think getting the media to actually pay attention to what is actually in the bills was the intent of either of them but, rather, a beneficial byproduct.

I hope the Senate gains at least two more seats in the midterms so this current tension will dissipate to a great extent.

[Johnny2X2X]

58. Might take more than 2

People don't like to talk about it here, but there are other moderates that have been letting Sinema and Manchin take all the heat publicly, but privately are thankful they have done so.

Regardless, an incredible amount got done in just 18 months. If Dems can hold both houses, the next 2 years are going to be great.

[Spazito]

59. Your point is well taken...

there are more moderates who stay silent publicly and they can precisely because Manchin and Sinema are doing what they are doing. The difference, to me, is those moderates do not vote against any of the bills Sinema and Manchin end of voting for. One would think they would not always be in lockstep with Sinema and Manchin on everything and would still vote no on some they disagreed with yet, from what I see, they don't do that.

[Demsrule86]

56. Kicking for visibility.

[Johnny2X2X]

60. I told my Bernie fan friends

I told my Bernie fan friends that Biden will get more of Bernie's agenda passed than Bernie could have, but it will be in little steps. We're not even halfway through Biden's first term, but he is getting a ton done so far.

[DemocraticPatriot]

61. I predict that Democrats will pickup 2-3 senate seats this midterm,

and after that we won't have to kiss their asses anymore!

THAT will be worthy of celebration!

[RANDYWILDMAN]

62. Always Remember 50 senators block tons on bills, REPUBLICANS

Their inaction and lockstep is disgusting !

[48656c6c6f20]

64. Oh. All hail Cinema and Munchin. Yeah..

[Zeitghost]

66. Well said

Somebody gets it.

[Voltaire2]

67. Corrupt self serving assholes.

[Mr.Bill]

68. When one or two Democrats kill a bill by not voting for it,

we should emphasize that there were also 50 republicans that killed it by not voting for it.

[whopis01]

69. It is a better situation than the Republicans controlling the Senate. n/t

[Earth-shine]

70. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema act out of ego, not principle -- Robert Reich

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/03/joe-manchin-kyrsten-sinema-attention-ego

[867-5309.]

71. The Inflation Reduction Act is crumbs

It was reduced to 5% - 10% of the initial Build Back Better. Don't talk like they tweaked it. They destroyed it.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

72. Many folks think that so many more nice things were possible.

To paraphrase JFK/George Bernard Shaw/RFK:

We need leaders who can dream of things that never were and ask "why not?"

Moderates and Republicans....not so much, when any nice things we get are only those that they permit us to have.

I will raise a glass to President Biden, and will dance in the street when Ruben Gallego is elected to to the US Senate after defeating Sinema in the primary.

[Patton French]

73. Nice

Creative spin, there.

[Nixie]

74. K&R