My new response to Qloons about Antifa

[Duncanpup]

You wanna meet some Antifa I’ll take you up to Indian town Gap military cemetery. Will stop for flowers I’ll buy because these were fine Americans they saved the world and we should never forget that.

[paleotn]

1. Exactly.

American Antifa. Magats are on the other side.

[keithbvadu2]

4. Antifa

.

[Butterflylady]

2. Thank you

My mother, father and step father are buried there. My brother will be buried when he passes.

[OMGWTF]

3. My dad was Antifa, Class of 1945.

[vlyons]

5. My uncle Turney

A true Antifa, who gave the ultimate sacrifice to defeat Nazis. Awarded the Medal of honor. His remains were found 6 years later beneath a tank. A German stole his Texas A&M ring, which had a unique number inscribed inside. When the German died, his son inherited the ring and returned it to Texas A&M.

We decent people are all Antifa now.

https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/turney-w-leonard

[keithbvadu2]

6. Trump family members could have been at Normandy... on the cliffs above the beaches.

Trump family members could have been at Normandy... on the cliffs above the beaches.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

12. They were kicked out by royal decree in 1905

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/21/trump-grandfather-friedrich-banished-germany-historian-royal-decree

[whistler162]

31. So could Ike's

[alphafemale]

41. What does this mean?

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

[TigressDem]

43. Nope. They came to America to avoid being drafted for military.

Last edited Mon Sep 5, 2022, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.history.com/news/donald-trump-father-mother-ancestry


On October 7, 1885, Friedrich Trump, a 16-year-old German barber, bought a one-way ticket for America, escaping three years of compulsory German military service. He had been a sickly child, unsuited to hard labor, and feared the effects of the draft. It might have been illegal, but America didn’t care about this law-breaking—at that time, Germans were seen as highly desirable migrants—and Trump was welcomed with open arms. Less than two weeks later, he arrived in New York, where he would eventually make a small fortune. More than a century later, his grandson, Donald Trump, became the 45th president of Friedrich’s adopted home.

But for decades, Trump denied this German heritage altogether, instead claiming that his grandfather’s roots lay further north, in Scandinavia. “[He] came here from Sweden as a child,” Trump asserted in his co-written book The Art of the Deal. In fact, his cousin and family historian John Walter told The New York Times, Trump maintained the ruse at the request of his own realtor father, Fred Trump, who had obfuscated his German ancestry to avoid upsetting Jewish friends and clients. “After the war,” Walter told the Times, “he’s still Swedish. [The lie] was just going, going, going.”

Trump is the son, and grandson, of immigrants: German on his father’s side, and Scottish on his mother’s. None of his grandparents, and only one of his parents, was born in the United States or spoke English as their mother tongue. (His mother’s parents, from the remote Scottish Outer Hebrides, lived in a majority Gaelic-speaking community.)


NOTE: I also read that Friedrich returned to Germany to marry, but because his leaving to dodge serving in the war was a crime, he was expelled from the country and returned to America.

[calimary]

7. Damn right.

If this were the WW2 era, those assholes would be burning incense to Antifa as Antifa saved their lives and took back their villages from enemy territory.

[sdfernando]

8. If this were WWII

These fascists would be beaten up by everyday citizens…might even be shot where they stood.

[samnsara]

9. we should all be antifa

[TigressDem]

11. My thought exactly. ALL AMERICANS should be AGAINST FACISM. nt

[LeftInTX]

10. Antifa is anti-military

They were an unsuccessful political party in Germany prior to WWII




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(Germany)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

[TigressDem]

14. The problem is, they were, as we are, fighting the REICH WING extremists and are under attack

I am not a registered member of ANTIFA and I don't approve of violence or property destruction, but in self defense, a person has the right to defend themselves and in such situations I have had to fight my way out of a large group of attackers, so knowing how to defend yourself is part of the right to life.

The problem is, and MLK showed us how to get better results with peaceful protests, IF WE DO WHAT THEY DO, WE ARE SEEN AS "TERRORISTS".


THIS IS WHAT THE REICH WING SPEWS about ANTIFA

https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/antifa/


Mark Bray, author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, explains, “militant anti-fascism is inherently self-defense because of the historically documented violence that fascists pose, especially to marginalized people.” Simply put, Antifa believes that the rhetoric of their adversaries will ultimately lead to violence against vulnerable communities, justifying their violence in return.


IS THIS GUY READING THE SAME SENTENCE HE QUOTED?

inherently self-defence because of the historically documented violence that fascists pose


NOT THE RHETORIC leading to self defense, the violence that comes AFTER the rhetoric leads to self defense.

[LeftInTX]

16. I'm neutralish on Antifa, but they are anti-military

It just bugs me when I see Eisenhower depicted as Antifa...

Antifa is anti-establishment and I think Eisenhower is probably the epitome of establishment....


Someone could make a cartoon, "Ike versus the Ninjas"

[TigressDem]

17. Well, to actually go to war to depose a FASCIST is pretty ANTI FASCIST is the point.

AND Antifa may be "anti-military" as in organized, but they are becoming more violent in response to White Supremacist actions.

AND being Anti-Establishment also makes them ANTI Democracy, so are they declaring war on US too?

Do they just want anarchy?

Does that really help anything or any one?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

21. In 1930s Germany ANTIFA primarily attacked the German Social Democrats (SPD)

as part of their strategy for the German Communist Party (KPD)to gain power (after the Nazis).

Note the SPD was and is Germany's equivalent of the Democratic Party, if not somewhat more "left."

Here is a short quote from the Wiki page [emphasis added]:

However, after the Comintern's abrupt ultra-left turn in its Third Period from 1928, the KPD regarded the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) as its main adversary and adopted the position that the SPD was the main fascist party in Germany.

This was based on the theory of social fascism that had been proclaimed by Joseph Stalin and that was supported by the Comintern during the late 1920s and early 1930s, which held that social democracy was a variant of fascism.

Consequently, the KPD held that it was "the only anti-fascist party" in Germany[6][15] and stated that "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

German ATFIFA helped take down liberal democracy and aided Hitler's rise to power.

They believed that liberals (and all "capitalists&quot were fascists. They were enablers of fascism, not legitimate anti-fascists.

Don't be fooled by "memes."

[TigressDem]

42. Agreed about the German version.

My hope is that ANTI- FASCISM as a general idea is embraced by more than ANTIFA specifically.

AND I also hope that American Antifa is not following in the German version's footsteps and making DEMs look bad to promote MAGA.

I don't know.

BUT the record of violence within ANTIFA being very low historically suggests they aren't in with the REICH WING.

[LeftInTX]

23. Keep in mind, we did not go to war to "fight fascism". We went becuz Germany declared war on US

The day after we declared war on Japan.

The US had originally been supportive of Mussolini's 1920's fascism.

Fast forward to the late 1930's, our closest ally, Great Britain was under attack almost daily by Germany. So whether Germany was fascist or not, we still would have gone to war against Germany because they had declared war on the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/28/when-americans-loved-benito-mussolini/

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/how-us-supported-mussolinis-fascism-in-italy/

[Just A Box Of Rain]

15. Actually, they were a wing of the German Communist Party

and they helped Hitler come to power by primarily attacking the liberal German Social Democrats who they labeled "Social Fascists" as part of their "Hitler First, Then Us Strategy."

The original Antifa was a fierce enemy of liberal democracy and they enabled Nazism.

Know your history good Democrats.

[TigressDem]

18. Yikes.

Because there is so much decentralization, I am guessing most of ANTIFA here do NOT support NAZI values.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

19. I've known many members of the Berkeley branch of ANTIFA.

They are not friends of liberal democracy.

The progressive mayor of Berkeley, Jesse Arreguín (a candidate who, for example, is endorsed by Bernie Sanders), has called for using CAs anti-gang injunctions against ANTIFA.

"They believe that felony violence is acceptable. We need to look at legal tools to deal with violent extremism.”

"We also need to hold accountable and encourage people not to associate with these extremists because it empowers them and gives them cover."


Not a good look for liberals and Democrats to give cover to these violent enemies of liberal democracy and the Democratic Party.

When a group belive that liberals are "fascists," then their "antifascist" bona fides are nothing but bullshit.

As I said before, know your history. Know your present.

[Kingofalldems]

24. So what Democrats are covering for Antifa?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

25. I dunno, but when when liberal Democrats who don't understand the history of ANTIFA,

in either 1930s Germany or in contemporary USA post memes about brave Americans who fought fascism in WWII (my father was one of them) being ANTIFA I think they are inadvertently slandering people who actually were anti-fascists by conflating them with ANTIFA (who are anti-democratic and anti-Democratic political extremists with very bad history).

I'm afraid too many people--including good liberal Democrats on this forum--don't understand the nature of ANTIFA as an organized political movement.

[Kingofalldems]

26. Non responsive.

You said Democrats were covering for Antifa--so I asked who these Democrats are. Can you name one?

Also do you believe Antifa was responsible for Jan. 6?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

28. Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe Donald J Trump's lies. Why the insulting rhetorical question?

Trump incredibly claims that Democrats are fascists.

The original ANTIFA did the same thing to Germany's liberal Social Democrats.

I think too many people are unaware of ANTIFA's actual history as enemies of liberal democracy.

[Kingofalldems]

29. Okay so you can't name one Democrat covering for Antifa.

Yet you made the claim in a post.

Care to retract that statement?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

30. Goodbye

[Kingofalldems]

33. I'll be around---rest assured.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

34. Do you think it was a good idea for the original German ANTIFA to make common cause with the

Nazi party and help to destroy the liberal Social Democrats and aid in Hitler's rise to power?

Given the reality of what actually happened in Germany, is it a good idea to conflate the memories of Americans who fought and died opposing fascism with ANTIFA? I sure dont.

More from Wikipedia [emphasis mine]:

The KPD sometimes cooperated with the Nazis in attacking the SPD.

In 1931, the KPD had united with the Nazis, whom they referred to as "working people's comrades", in an unsuccessful attempt to bring down the SPD state government of Prussia by means of a referendum.

In the usage of the Soviet Union, and of the Comintern and its affiliated parties in this period, including the KPD, the epithet fascist was used to describe capitalist society in general and virtually any anti-Soviet or anti-Stalinist activity or opinion.

My take is that most people (including forum members) are unaware of the actual history of the German ANTIFA and that, as a result, they inadvertently believe that this was an "anti-fascist" movement (and therefore a "good thing&quot when ANTIFA actually braided liberal democracy, including the left-liberal Social Democrats to be a fascist party.

I think it is important for people to be aware of the facts.

Wouldn't you agree?

[Kingofalldems]

35. No Democrat has shielded any Antifa.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

37. People in this thread have inadvertently conflated Americans who fought fascism in WWII

with ANTIFA. I'm sure this was done from a position of goodwill and with a lack of understanding of the true history of ANTIFA's role in aiding Hitler's rise to power.

We are all antifascists. German ANTIFA branded liberals as "fascists." Not the same thing. Clearly.

I noticed you dodged all my questions. Talk about "non-responsive."

[Kingofalldems]

38. Your questions have no relevance to the OP.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

39. I'm calling this a deflection and non-responsive.

I asked legitimate questions and answered yours.

Your refusal to answer speaks volumes.

Adios!

[scipan]

27. Not your grandfather's Antifa

BBC notes that, "as their name indicates, Antifa focuses more on fighting far-right ideology than encouraging pro-left policy."[41] Beinart argues that the election of Donald Trump vitalized the antifa movement and some on the mainstream left were more willing to support them as a tactical opposition.[10

[Escurumbele]

13. Brilliant!

[Brainfodder]

20. Shouldn't just explaining that antifa is ANTI-FASCISM so if against it you are FOR fascism?

Fascism is not good in 2022.



Or did I miss something?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

22. You actually did miss something.

[WarGamer]

32. Every time I post this... it's rapidly ignored.

Being a history nerd...

No. Your grandfathers in the US military weren't ANTIFA.

Call them "Nazi bashers" or "Freedom Fighters" or "Yankee Doodle Dandy" for that matter...

But they weren't ANTIFA.

I understand the emotion and the desire to say so... it's "cute and funny"

But historically, it's nonsense.







You see.. ANTIFA is an actual THING.

In 1932 the German Communist Party formed Antifaschistische Aktion.

The German Communist Party was under control of Stalin, formed and funded by Stalin himself since 1928.

The term "Anti-Fascist" was originated by the Soviets and was used as a derogatory phrase for Capitalist society or really any person or group in opposition to Communism and the USSR.






In the 1930's, ANTIFA spread all over the world, even to the USA... hosted by the Communist Party of the USA.

https://th-thumbnailer.cdn-si-edu.com/kdvHMR9YZgh4psN8lrzHLvUflWg=/1000x750/filters:no_upscale()/

During WW2, the Russians pained ANTIFA slogans on their tanks

Post WW2, ANTIFA continued it's operation as a Communist front organization.




This is just history. It's not my opinion or someone elses opinion.

The US Military was certainly not ANTIFA... because that word has a definition in reality.

Now continue on with your Sunday and ignore this message, again.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/brief-history-anti-fascism-180975152/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(Germany)#:~:text=The%20contemporary%20antifa%20movement%20has%20its%20origins%20in%20West%20Germany,of%20the%20West%20German%20government.
https://www.rosalux.de/en/news/id/42095/the-lost-history-of-antifa

[Just A Box Of Rain]

36. It is refreshing to read from someone who has studied the history of that period.

Thank you.

German ANTIFA, following Stalin's orders, attacked liberal democrats as fascists.

The Social Democrats they fought as their prime opponents were Germany's equivalent of the Democratic Party in the USA (perhaps a nudge more to the left). ANTIFA branded the Social Democrats (SPD) as "Social Fascists."

It is Orwellian. ANTIFA was an anti-liberal movement that sought to destroy democracy in 1930s Germany (and succeeded) and they willingly helped Hitler to power as part of their strategy.

They are not a movement to celebrate in any fashion. They were enablers of fascism.

I wish more people studied the actual history of that era, as it is informative.

[WarGamer]

40. thanks... all true.