All Along the Watchtower

[H2O Man]

" No reason to get excited
The thief, he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, " -- Bob Dylan; All Along the Watchtower



I don't think anyone is surprised by Judge Cannon's ruling per a special master. She had proven herself to be a Trump advocate when she said she was likely to appoint one, before even hearing the DOJ's response to Trump's original filing. In that sense, it was similar to knowing that the current Supreme Court would be eager to overturn Roe. However, in the current case, the potential for long-term harm to the public is not even close to the same.

The most significant OP I've read on DU:GD today is from our friend FelineOverlord:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217123883
One can like or dislike Maggie Haberman -- or have no opinion of her at all -- and still see the importance of her comment. Likewise, one can forgive Hyle Cheney for that last name, and recognize the value of making the ruling available.

If a judge in a trial said, "Bring the guilty bastard in, and I'll give him a fair trial," most everyone would recognize that judge was not objective. Likewise, when a judge states publicly that they are likely to rule in favor of one side, before even hearing from the other side, we know that they are not objective.

Her comments on the harm that indicting Trump might cause -- found on pages 9 and 10 -- further document her inability to be objective. Add to that her comments on the public interest, where she clearly shows that she thinks the Trump cult is by definition the public, and it appears there are issues the DOJ could appeal her decision on.

I trust the DOJ to make the best decision on how to respond to this naked attempto to delay justice. No special master is going to decide that Trump had the right to take and keep the classified documents. It already seemed likely that the DOJ wasn't going to indict Trump until after the November elections. But this is a speed bump on the road to justice, and not a spike strip. We need to keep our eyes on the prize.

[kentuck]

1. Good song!

I thought "executive power" was solely in the hands of the President, not in the hands of a former president or any judge?

[H2O Man]

3. You are correct.

No special master will consider documents regarding a crime to be Trump's sacred "executive" property. A bullshit ruling by a Trump cultist. But along the road to justice, a mere bump that one slows down for.

[Chainfire]

2. If the opinion is not overturned, how long do you think that it could take when each document

may have to be litigated?

[H2O Man]

4. Good question.

I'm not sure. But I don't see this as protecting Trump for anything more than a short delay.

[livetohike]

5. Thank you for this. As usual you are the calm in the storm.

I agree it will be a short delay. Also, thanks for posting the best cover ever. I love Jimi .

[H2O Man]

8. Thank you!

I've collected Jimi's music for over 50 years. I have a 5 LP set from Germany, of him playing Motown hits, a recording of him and Johnny Winters at a club, where a hugely intoxicated Him Morrison joins them before passing out on stage. and lots more!

It will be interesting to see if the DOJ brings this to the 11th Circuit. Maybe not, as Clarence "advises" them. But it sounds like they may.

[Celerity]

13. My favourite Hendrix song, this original version is not on YT that I can find

Pali Gap (from Rainbow Bridge, 1971)
vimeo.com/344319945

[livetohike]

20. It's my favorite too! It used to be on YouTube, but

the Hendrix estate took it and many others down. From time to time something new pops up .

[H2O Man]

30. Beautiful!

I have that on an old bootleg, but it is scratched up a bit.

[livetohike]

22. I would love to hear that! The only unusual Hendrix compilation I have

is a cassette tape of bootleg songs from his concerts. I worked with his cousin back in the mid 80’s out in L.A. and he made a copy for me. He was a second cousin and only remembers Jimi from when he was a little boy.

[H2O Man]

31. One of my

favorites is "Hang on Sloopy." There's a version with Jimi playing with Curtis Knight, but that isn't even close to the same of just Jimi recording it. I'll have to ask my son if there is any way he can put it on the internet. Lots of great stuff on those five albums.

[Saoirse9]

6. Been expecting this decision all weekend

DOJ isn’t going to stand for its bullshit.

Trump judges are like whack a moles. Smack one down another pops up. The jurisdiction is really Washington DC so I expect them to bring charges there. Not in Florida.

[H2O Man]

9. Cannon was acting

as a defense attorney. She really had no background qualifications for being appointed to her current position ..... I don't think she was even a partner in the law firm she worked in. I think that shallowness shows in her decision.

I'm watching the responses of those with real insight on this.

[Hekate]

7. Kick!

[H2O Man]

10. Thanks!

It's curious she noted her concern that the DOJ would "leak" information. The DOJ doesn't leak. Thus far, it is the Trump side's efforts that has resulted in information being made public.

[spanone]

11. K&R

[H2O Man]

16. Thank you!

[Wounded Bear]

12. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Who will watch the watchers?

Supposedly emblazoned above the door to the chambers of the Roman Imperial Guards, who in later times often conspired with usurpers to overthrow the very Emporers they were supposed to be guarding.

With the republican takeover of the Judiciary, the "watchers" are suspect.

[H2O Man]

17. The watchers .....

I think it was 1973 when Arthur Schlesing, Jr. published his important book on the "imperial presidency," and how that damaged the balance of federal powers. Then in the 1990s, Newt Gingrich's "contract on America" intended to -- and did -- damage the ability of the houses of Congress to operate as intended. And the 2001 USSC's selection of Bush as president revealed the republicans on the court not only played politics, but ruled in a manner that supported their families' economics. So the corruption of the watchers has had a long time to take root.

What really stands out to me, in this terrible decision, is that Cannon almost completely ignored the absolute reality of the underlying crimes. Almost completely, except voicing her concern that an indictment will damage Trump.

[onethatcares]

14. thank you for the perspective H20man

I appreciate your taking the time. Thanx

[H2O Man]

18. Thanks!

While I am confident that Trump will be indicted, tried, and convicted, I do thinkthis is a prime example of the very real dangers of having a christian nationalist on a federal court.

As the hours go by, however, my thought that Cannon had overstepped in her decision is being reinforced by watching experts on TV and on the internet.

[maxrandb]

15. I think we are more in "Won't Get Fooled Again" territory

We'll be fighting in the street.
With our children at our feet.
And the morals that they worship will be gone.
And the men who spurred us on.
Sit in judgement of all wrong,
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

[link:https://m.

|

[H2O Man]

19. Very good!

I agree we aren't being fooled. I don't think Trump has fooled us before. But I think Trump is fooling himself if he thinks he is going to skate on this one!

[ancianita]

21. Once the master sees that they've got nothing to do, since nothing is covered under privilege,

the judge will say that "due process" action is done and will allow the investigation to continue.
Vetting a master, then letting them realize they've got nothing, shouldn't take more than a month, tops.

No matter the House & Senate outcomes for us (they're looking very good right now), Biden's DOJ will have all next year to land Trump in prison. Not to mention the accompanying indictments for aiding and abetting and accessories after the fact charges filed on at least six to ten (a conservative estimate) congressional repubs.

[gab13by13]

26. DOJ should appeal, not give the judge credence

by agreeing to the Special Master. An appeal will take longer than going with a Special Master.

[ancianita]

27. Then they can file a writ of mandamus. If they appeal,

Last edited Tue Sep 6, 2022, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

they will be playing right into hers and Trump's lawyers' stall game.

Go with the special master, require an expeditious pace to get the silly privilege issue clear, and that will save a lot of time.

Or based on national security concerns, the DOJ can demand that the appeal process itself be expedited by both the 11th, or DC Circuit, and SCOTUS.

[H2O Man]

32. I think that

the 11th Circuit would be a risky place to appeal. That appears to be what the Trump legal team wants.

[ancianita]

37. It is. But

the judge notes that the DC Circuit is likely the correct jurisdiction for this case. Either way, the appeals will take this to SCOTUS, which plays into the hands of Trump lawyers.

The DOJ shouldn't go for that delay game, and that's why I think the DOJ should not appeal but simply get on with finishing the bs 'due process' of the special master, which won't take as long, since the sp. master will learn that there's really no 'privilege' that legally exists, and so they'll end up with nothing to really do.

At which point, Cannon will then allow the investigation to proceed.

[H2O Man]

38. Yes, I agree.

[malaise]

23. She is a disgrace to the judiciary

I am pissed

[MustLoveBeagles]

24. +1000

[H2O Man]

33. That she is.

I'm thinking it may actually be better to get this out of the way now, however, than have it be a post-conviction grounds for appeal. I'm confident that the DOJ will respond in the best way possible. It is, at most, a brief delay.

More, this process may cool the cult. They will see it as "protecting" their boy. Having enraged people cool off for a period tends to make the outrages to come be of less severity. After President Biden's speech -- which they view as him joining antifa -- it's good to put them on ice. And it will not help the slobfuher in the long run.

[gab13by13]

25. What judge Cannon did is not a speed bump,

we have foreign assets who appear to be compromised, their lives are at stake. If DOJ appeals the decision it is going to take months. DOJ if it appeals needs to ask to have the stay removed. The FBI can't dust documents for fingerprints or DNA. If DOJ goes along with a Special Master it is opening up a huge can of worms for judicial malpractice, for ignoring judicial precedence. It will give credence to the judge's horrible decision.

Going the proper route, an appeal, will take longer than accepting the Special Master, it will go to the Supreme Court. Can we trust the Supreme Court to expedite the case? It is within the power of the Supreme Court to not take the appeal for as long as 4 months.

[H2O Man]

34. Respectfully disagree.

Her ruling does not apply to the Intelligence Community. And the FBI has certainly already completed any fingerprint/DNA testing. And since it is highly likely that any special master will confirm the DOJ's stance on what might be protected, it is unlikely that the next ex-president who steals national security documents will be protected, especially since Trump has rather unique personality pathology -- judging from over 200 years of national experience.

[housecat]

28. Wow just wow. 2022 Tallking about the death of democracy while listening

to Hendrix from half a century ago Wow

[H2O Man]

35. And Zimmerman.

He did write the song, although Jimi made it a classic. Plus I think it is essential to listen to at least one non-Beatle/Plastic Ono Band per day. It can be Jimi, it can be Jim ......

We have to take care of our mental health. No better music in human history than that of 50 years ago.

[housecat]

39. Did you say "one non-Beatle/Plasic Ono band?" I thought I was the only one who said that

And yes, the 60's/70's music was never surpassed. Imitated yes, improved no. Thanks for Doors song

[H2O Man]

40. In the 1970s,

(when I was younger, so much younger than today), there was a "man on the street" news reporter interviewing people. I had just exited a new & used record store, with a substantial armload of albums. She asked me what I bought ..... they were all Beatles & post-Beatles LPs. She was surprised. Being high as a kite, I said that I tried to keep an open mind about music, and that anyone who didn't listen to the Beatles constantly had a closed mind.

I haven't changed that much over the years. I mean, I love Hendrix, the Doors, Neil Young, and a few others. But my very favorites are the Beatles and the Plastic Ono Band.

[housecat]

41. I remember waiting for every Beatles and Dylan album to come out. Saw Dylan in concert 1966 and

got a front row seat (folding card chairs in a boxing arena) for the Stones around that time. Music was magic back then.

[MustLoveBeagles]

29. Thank you for being a voice of reason

So many hair on fire posts today. Thanks also for the Jimi Hendrix clip.

[H2O Man]

36. Thank you!

We knew that she was going to rule this way. I was more annoyed when she said that without hearing from the DOJ. Plus, her ruling seems to document that she reached a decion before finding ways to justify it. She may go down in legal history, but surely not as a bright legal mind.