General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid Garland wait too long to begin investigations?
If he hadn't waited for the Jan 6 Comm to do his job for him and wasted at least 6 months of precious time before the midterms, will his poor timing/decisions determine the fate of our democracy?
OK, let me have it. I know DU is split on this matter and Garland has finally acted but I still hold him accountable for a delay.
That delay could prove to have been an extremely disastrous decision for the country. Politics aside...was this really the best choice for him to make at this precipitous time in our nation's future?
Elessar Zappa
(13,988 posts)Building a federal case takes time and if you aim for the king, you better not miss! Im glad Garland is getting all his ducks in a row. I want a sure-fire conviction.
Bev54
(10,052 posts)convene a grand jury at the start of an investigation, which tells me he was investigating for some time.
David__77
(23,382 posts)This has always been a political and not principally legal-technical fight. Trump is now in firm control of the Republican Party and well positioned to run for President.
Bev54
(10,052 posts)Elessar Zappa
(13,988 posts)He barely won in 2016 and lost by 7 million votes in 2020. I dont believe hes gained many new supporters.
David__77
(23,382 posts)Im not saying I think he would win- I find that unlikely. I do think its a significant possibility.
He could lost the popular vote by a good margin and still win.
I find it jarring that given the very open coup plot that there wasnt swift action to crack down using all tools available. The Capitol event wasnt even part of this coup plot. Why was Gen. Flynn not court martialed for treason? Why was Trump not arrested by federal agents on 1/21?
Ocelot II
(115,686 posts)in February. And it's usually a good idea to do an investigation first.
onenote
(42,700 posts)And what do you mean by "strike"? Start arresting people without any investigation?
Earth-shine
(4,004 posts)The documents at MAGA Laro could not be ignored.
Ocelot II
(115,686 posts)AZSkiffyGeek
(11,012 posts)Im sure wed get a lot of justice by throwing them in Gitmo without a trial, which seems to be what these justice now! Authoritarians seem to want.
Earth-shine
(4,004 posts)I said it appears that he is doing the minimum (and that it comes right after tremendous public outcry).
Nothing "exactly" about it.
onenote
(42,700 posts)how do you know its just "the minimum"
In light of your admitted lack of information about the workings of DOJ, exactly what would you have had them do that you know that they haven't done?
mcar
(42,311 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,374 posts)I thought it was next weekend.
Here's a little tidbit, appearances can be deceiving.
Earth-shine
(4,004 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,374 posts)you really have no idea what AG Garland is or isn't doing, none of us here do, but judging by the revelations, he's kicking ass.
Response to MarineCombatEngineer (Reply #27)
Post removed
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,374 posts)I called your post dumb, but that's ok, I have a thick skin, I can take it.
You have every right to your opinion but expect push back when you write a fact free post like that.
Earth-shine
(4,004 posts)You'd be deep in the brig for months while they assess the docs.
Where is Trump while they make their assessments?
How long did they know about the docs before doing the so-called raid?
Garland is certainly not pursuing the straightest path to justice for Trump. I'm sure he has other concerns, like restoring the honor of the justice department, but this is coming at the expense of dispensing justice quickly.
The OP complained specifically about the delays. I agreed with her.
Your posts don't state any facts, either. So accusing me of that is pretty dumb, eh?
My posts here are solely my opinion based on what I have been seeing these past months.
Garland appears now to be on the job, but this comes after so much public outcry that he was doing nothing.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,374 posts)you have zero idea of what is going on or has gone on inside the DoJ unless you have inside information.
Do you?
As I said, you have every right to your opinion, and we have every right to counter you.
onenote
(42,700 posts)Sorry, but real life isn't like television. Study the case of Benjamin Pierce Bishop. He was investigated for misuse of classified documents starting in mid 2021, with ongoing surveillance, searches etc. before an arrest warrant was issued nearly a year later.
Or review the case of Sandy Berger, who took classified documents from the Archives. It was discovered in October 2003 and referred to DOJ shortly thereafter. He was never arrested. He was investigated (an investigation that wasn't publicly acknowledged until 2004) and then plead guilty in 2005 to a misdemeanor and sentenced to two years of probation -- he never spent a day in jail, either before or after his guilty plea.
elleng
(130,895 posts)JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)elleng
(130,895 posts)JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)elleng
(130,895 posts)mcar
(42,311 posts)till the J6 commission did his job for him.
I won't hold my breath.
Are you aware that DOJ has been prosecuting hundreds of J6 offenders?
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,012 posts)These brave keyboard critics could do the time standing on their heads!!!!
mcar
(42,311 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,734 posts)Why wait 100 years?
live love laugh
(13,104 posts)mcar
(42,311 posts)Hekate
(90,675 posts)PJMcK
(22,035 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,606 posts)DOJ doesnt send out memos updating the public on the status of ongoing investigations.
Your timeline is based upon public information- lots was happening before anything became public.
For example, the DOJ convened a grand jury in February to hear evidence on Trump and his minions J6 crimes; that GJ didnt become public knowledge until late April.
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,012 posts)They dont actually care about getting a conviction. Just a photo op.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,606 posts)For actual, lasting Justice and the preservation of democracy.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)He has also not been assertive enough. Trump should already be in jail. Yes, our democracy depends on this.
live love laugh
(13,104 posts)hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)n/t
live love laugh
(13,104 posts)hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)After obviously committing crimes. Thats all I need to know about Garland.
When Garland actually charges Trump with something, then the cheerleaders can start. Until then, its ridiculous to think something is going to happen. It hasnt and I dont think it ever will.
DFW
(54,372 posts)The grass does not grow any quicker just because you pull on it.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)What reason was there to politely ask, essentially beg, for the return of stolen top secret documents for months? Imo, that should not have happened and would not have had it been another target other than this one or another higher up even maybe. It was obvious and stated that this admin had no plans to hold dump accountable before it was even elected, however that was before an attempted coup to overthrow the newly elected government and maybe before it was known that top secret documents were missing.
I dont even consider those to be the most egregious crimes, but they certainly cant be ignored while fascists are trying to take over.
Demsrule86
(68,563 posts)Democrats...have a nice day and maybe consider that the GOP wants to take Medicare, Social Security, the ACA and a host of other things away from Americans. Perhaps, conversations like this which are divisive and in my opinion not factual ( you couldn't possibly know what Garland did or didn't do) could wait until after the midterm.
BumRushDaShow
(128,941 posts)which is why over 870 have been arrested per the last update at the beginning of this month (actual case updates appear here).
What was interesting was that last evening, Alex Wagner had former a US Attorney Jim Walden on and he had a graphic that sortof summarized all the different things going on that are potentially "under investigation" and/or could be under investigation, and it's pretty breathtaking -
And different aspects may have their own Division assigned to work on it.
This is definitely RICO and the center of the image - the "hub" - contains the key figures who are somehow involved in some form or fashion with the "spokes". Am thinking Jenna Ellis probably should have been included in that "hub" part too.
A lot of the above has been "publicized" in bits and pieces over the past couple years but let me say this (for about the millionth time) - every agency has an increasingly escalating "process" (and that goes for NARA, and as we have seen, goes for Congress as well) for how to handle inquiries and refusals of their inquires BEFORE they go to DOJ to "enforce" those inquires. DOJ cannot possibly "reach down into" every agency's interaction (and problems they are having) with whoever those agencies are dealing with.
Probably 90% of the time, when an agency asks for something, after occasional hemming and hawing, the requestee complies. Then you have that 10% who balks and blows it off, but with sufficient threats (DOJ starts getting involved), probably most of those will finally "comply" and/or settle. But there will often be those few couple percent like we have been seeing here, that are insisting on fighting it all the way. But THEY are not the typical.
So in the case of NARA, literally in the aftermath of the destruction that happened in the Capitol January 6, and just before Inauguration Day as the criminal finally fled the White House, inventories were done by NARA and even the White House Curator, regarding what might be missing. And a series of escalating requests were made by NARA to return the items - literally that first year (2021). Some stuff trickled back but it wasn't until around December 2021/early January 2022, when NARA finally started getting a more substantial response, and at that point, they were able to confirm that things were worse than they thought, and THAT is when they went to DOJ as their "next step".
Meanwhile, as the the earlier DU narrative spent months insulting the J6 Committee, which was only formed June 30, 2021 after the drama of trying to make it bipartisan and bicameral, while the game-playing by the GOP loons ensued and delayed the creation, they held their actual FIRST hearing on July 27, 2021, that continues to be forgotten, and then came back almost a year later (June 2022) with the first of what would be 8 hearings as their 2022 kick off.
So everyone was in their own lane, thanks to the Constitution's "separation of powers", but what the result was, aside from all the drama and insults, was the reveal of the depth and breadth of what is, as has been repeated over and over, an unprecedented series of events.
jalan48
(13,864 posts)investigations by Democrats while starting non-stop investigations of Democrats, this question will be asked often.
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)Alternatively, you could acknowledge that you have no idea how his investigation has been carried out.