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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA curtain of darkness is falling upon America and the world
From Italy, to Hungary, to Sweden, to Argentina, to Uruguay, to Chile, to so many other countries on our small planet, including, the United States of America, fascism is advancing or has won control.
To all Americans who thought "It Can't Happen Here," look around. ITS HAPPENING HERE.
I don't understand why so many are attracted to fascism. In the last century, we saw how it almost took over the world, before it was stopped. And we saw countless tens of millions of human beings die because of it. Seems far too many people can't or won't learn from history.
What at one time was America's conservative Republican Party, has been fully devoured by those who believe in, and are determined to bring about, an America ruled by fascism.
Democracy is in danger of falling world-wide, and if it happens, many, if not most of us, will spend the near future, or the rest of our lives, under the thumbs of ruthless dictators. Who would want that? Those who get to be part of and run those dictatorships. In other words, a small minority of our country's, (and the world's), population wants total control over the vast majority of humanity.
It's amazing how easily so many human beings can be conned into putting their own necks into the yoke of oppression. The bait is most often hatred of "The Other." That's called ignorance. And it's why those who seek to own us all are against educated populations.
So the bottom line is, we all have to get out and vote, (and hope that those votes get counted). But is that enough? We Americans have a core of dedicated domestic enemies. Is our dedication to democracy and our freedoms as strong as their devotion to their cause? I guess we'll find out after the upcoming elections.
But back to that headline above. I really believe that all of us must find a way to do more to ensure that human darkness does not come to full power. Those who want that power are focused, ruthless and relentless. Are we capable of prevailing?
Joinfortmill
(14,419 posts)Justice matters.
(6,928 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)Sadly, I think most people are not willing to do that so long as their basic necessities are met and they can watch the lions and gladiators (figuratively speaking).
NCDem47
(2,248 posts)Their Amazon order doesn't arrive on time.
Their Starbucks closes unexpectantly.
Ther Netflix account stops streaming.
Some have chosen to tune poltics out. As if it has no bearing on their lives. Its just entertainment for wonks get invloved with.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)In fact, the trains and planes may just work on time. Suddenly the homeless "problem" is no more.
Criminals get locked up or killed with greater efficiency. And the protesters who block their roads and break windows (even if much of the destruction is caused by government provocateurs) are quickly dealt with and swept off the streets. Of course all this is explained by the new Fox Media Network who works closely with the new Great America party in charge, explaining how only dangerous radicals protest, and how the Party is making Americans safe.
And Amazon, Starbucks, and Netflix carry on....because they still want to make their profits. And they also like that the Great America Party is putting their troublemaker union organizers in prison.
And when the famous poem by Martin Niemöller (First they came for the Socialists....) starts hitting closer to their own home, its way too late to reverse it. At least for a long time, and probably in a violent way, if at all
dickthegrouch
(3,173 posts)The entertainers (and entertainment) are a very useful distraction from the politics for many people.
Politics is hard and unrelenting, too many gray areas for the folks that want everything black and white.
I'd much rather watch NCIS than an integrity-free debate.
Put in punitive consequences for outright lies in politics and then we have a game. Until then it seems like a lost cause.
MrsCheaplaugh
(183 posts)The Grand Illuminist
(1,331 posts)nt
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)It's because the lie of fascism is so easily believed: "The terrible things we do will only be done to those who deserve them, which obviously does not include you or those you love."
Solomon
(12,310 posts)calimary
(81,260 posts)Just built on hate. Pretty sad.
newdayneeded
(1,955 posts)If you eliminate poor people, then there will always be another level of poor people to elimate. Before long, if you make a million a year, you'll be considered a poor person and eliminated. and up the income ladder it would go.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Time to do it again.
Americans now have had the experience of watching from comfort as many hundreds of millions of people died under extreme authoritarian governments created then. Most were killed directly by their own people/governments, other millions died from government abuse and incompetence, often both at once, as from government-spread famines and epidemics. (We're still having one of those here.)
During the same period, Americans got to experience the western liberal democracies prospering so well that most of their people are too privileged and complacent to realize that the blessings of democracy aren't like gravity -- they can be destroyed. They have to be protected.
The most absurd claim, contradicted in every case, is that it's democracy that's failed (!) and strong authoritarian government that's proven to work well. No mention that it requires sacrifice of freedoms and rights, of comfort and plenty for lives of deprivation, and of complacency for fear.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)who knows what would have happened. They were brilliant at propaganda and may have won.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and convincing others that FDR was the warmonger and no decent American would vote for him?
By enabling LW influencers to be admired for spreading political propaganda and saying they wouldn't vote for FDR because they didn't "like" him -- at a time when a fascist takeover was the alternative?
The internet probably would have enabled those of that day to continue seamlessly as still-admired voices for progressivism even if it was now dead as a doornail in the Deutsche Republik of America and Hitler was building death camps in Arizona.
Seems all too likely. But how much does the internet create the markets for propaganda and how much of the demand is always among us? Being studied especially intensively these days, of course.
GenXer47
(1,204 posts)that occurs when you get children to repeat mythologies that they know cannot be true. It's called "religion". As that individual grows up, it's like there's this button, waiting to be pressed, that a clever propagandist can use to activate this twisted Pavlovian response.
I consider indoctrination of children, with stories of supernatural beings and impossible events, to be child abuse.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Boric has been the President of Chile since March of this year.
peppertree
(21,633 posts)In 2019, and despite lacking charisma, a progressive candidate defeated a hard-right incumbent (Trump's pal Macri) - after Macri's debt bubble led to a Bush-style crash, complete with a record IMF bailout.
But 3 years later, and while the economy and jobs have grown, inflation is approaching 100% (it was already at 55% in '19). And voters are pissed.
That's where Big Media comes in - which has been going all in for Macri (who wants his comeback) or any other right-wing candidate who can beat President Fernández.
Some of Macri's supporters lately:
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)peppertree
(21,633 posts)And they happen to be facing the very threat right now.
That said, I'm a fan of President Boric - as well as Argentina's Fernández, Colombia's Petro, and Brazil's Lula (fingers crossed this Sunday!).
They're fighting the good fight, and All the Best to them.
RAB910
(3,501 posts)Cyrano
(15,035 posts)RAB910
(3,501 posts)and every present
CousinIT
(9,243 posts)And they'll vote for ANYTHING or anybody based on that fear. Strong Democratic government, fully-staffed agencies able to fully serve the people, scares the shit out of them. They don't even SEE rising Fascism much less consider it a problem. They are utterly blind to what is going on. INCLUDING the Social Security & Medicare that they are virtually surviving on and that MAGA has TOLD THEM OUTRIGHT they will take away or cut/gut to the bone. They live in another world which is NOT based in fact or reality AT ALL. And their ignorance-based votes will hurt NOT ONLY THEMSELVES but ME and everyone else in the country. And when that happens - guess who they'll blame: DEMOCRATS.
This quote comes to mind:
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they dont have to worry about answers.
Thomas Pynchon
hay rick
(7,611 posts)The world is a dangerous place.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)We THE PEOPLE
are LIGHT HEARTS WE ONLY LOSE WHEN WE GIVE IN TO THE DISPAIR OF THE DARK HEARTED LIKE Trump the Darkest HEART to have ever walked the earth.
LIGHT ALWAYS DEFEATS DARKNESS.
WE JUST HAVE TO TURN THE DAMN LIGHTS ON
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Yes, that's the essential element of populism.
Unfortunately populist authoritarianism isn't an exclusive feature of the far-right.
Societies are vulnerable when a sane non-populist liberal center is destroyed by people whose path to power rests on spreading hate of "The Other."
Fighting this tendency is our primary challenge as liberal democrats/Democrats.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)In my definition, real populism simply sees politics as a struggle between the common people and the rich and powerful elites. The pseudo-populism preferred by right-wing demagogues casts life as a struggle between people like you and everyone else.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)Is populism "tribalist" in that regard? Sure. Populism is something speaks to the worst in human nature.
There is always someone chosen to blame and to hate for all the problems a society faces. The scapegoats change, but hated of "The Other" is always manifest.
Right-wing populism isn't "pseudo-populism," rather it is classic populism.
Populism is a pox on humanity.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)... and as I said, I do believe it's because of right-wing demagogues co-opting the term. Here's my problem with that: We already have terms for those people (e.g. fascists) but if we call them populists, can tell me what word you would prefer I use to uniquely distinguish the ideologies of common people versus elites -- for example, the politics of the People's Party (later the Populist Party), which were the first Americans to call themselves populists?
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)anti-urban, in addition to being plagued by conspiracy theory a widespread tendency towards conspiracy theories and prone to divisionism.
The Populist Party was thoroughly rejected by progressive of the era for its regressive tendencies.
They did attempt to attract the Black vote, which many regarded as nothing but a cynical attempt to gain power, and the Populist Party leader Tom Watson famously demanded the disenfranchisement of Black voters when the party failed electorially.
I'd say the Populist Party was well named.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)If you looked into the Populist Party enough to dig up all that, I would think that you would have also seen a substantial difference between their ideology and those of fascists and theocrats, regardless of your opinions about either. Why would you want to lump them all together? And regardless of revisionism about the Populist Party, you might have seen mention of other movements worldwide that I would say are rightly called "populist" because they champion the common people in opposition to an elite ruling class. Why would you want to throw in movements that champion a dictator?
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)But it has always been a very negative ideology that speaks to peoples worst impulses.
It is a divisive impulse. "Us against them." Or "only some people are people" mindset that has motivated repression and political mass murder.
And "populism" does link regiemes that are "in theory" on opposite sides of a bi-polar political spectrum. Hitler and Pol Pot (or Stalin or Mao) all railed against elites who "sucked the blood of the people" prior to engaging in a genocide of "The Other."
If we don't learn the lessons of recent history, then we are in big trouble.
When populist movements have gained power bloodshed and human rights abuses have followed. It is part of "the logic" of populism. You can't build a movement that threats some people as "People" and the rest as "The Other" and not have it end badly.
As liberals we need to stand firmly against populism, as we stand against fascism (which is a right wing variant of populism). Populism is the greatest threat to liberal democracy.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)... e.g. ideologies based on chauvinism and xenophobia, and you're not giving me a replacement term for what I call populism: the populous versus the elites.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)You are not describing anything different. It is people who have their own interests at heart (and their own interests alone) who seek to push down "others."
Populism is not a progressive ideology or a liberal one. Instead it is a regressive impulse that fuels political rage and demagoguery.
Your example of the Populist Party in nineteenth century America rather proves the point. This was not a progressive movement. In fact, the progressives of the era despised the Populist Party for good cause.
The "populous versus the elites" was the same siren-song offered by both Hitler and Stalin. Didn't turn out well, and never has.
Populism is toxic.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)I'm simply claiming that populist ideologies are not based on racial and ethnic chauvinism and xenophobia, and should not be confused with ideologies which are, simply because demagogues claim to represent the interests of "the people." I think you'd need to completely ignore their rather different agendas to fail to notice a difference, so I find your definitions to be too vague to be of any practical use. So be it; no point in belaboring it.
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)That was largely the case with nineteenth century American Populist Party, but it is possible for "The Other" to simply be those in a different economic strata.
You keep saying "my definition" when mine is the the understanding of populism that is predominant in political science studies.
Understanding the nature of Populism could not be more "practical," as Populism is the greatest global threat to liberal democracy that we face. There is nothing "vague" about it.
"Only some of 'the people' are really people."
That mentally leads to repression and massive bloodshed. Look at the history of the past 100 years (or so).
William Seger
(10,778 posts)Which is that there is no such thing as an ideology actually based on the populous versus the elite, so we don't need a specific term to distinguish it from fascism? Huh, I'd never have guessed that.
I'd disagree with almost everything in your post, but we seem to be talking past each other. I really don't think you're understanding my point, but as I said, I don't see a need for belaboring it.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)William Seger
(10,778 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)rich and powerful elites" and "a struggle between people like you and everyone else." Populism is simply a frame for ideologies on both the left and right; it requires an in group and an out group, that's all.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)people, and an out group that consists of elites, wreckers, subversives, whatever, and each group "deserves" certain thing because of who they are. As a frame, it's neutral -- parties on all parts of the political spectrum use it. That's what makes the concept so powerful, and so dangerous.
William Seger
(10,778 posts)... is not to say that (whatever) is populism.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)William Seger
(10,778 posts)... and I'll repeat my objection: You're depriving me of a term for an ideology that specifically opposes plutocracy and oligarchy by applying it to authoritarian ideologies that specifically champion an oligarchy -- for no logical reason that I can see.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)ETA: I am a dick about this because I believe the understanding of populism is amorphous, and that in the end, the embrace of populism weakens leftist movements (because it excludes people) and strengthens rightwing movements (because it excludes people).
Just A Box Of Rain
(5,104 posts)(because it excludes people) and strengthens rightwing movements (because it excludes people)."
I'd argue it is much worse than that.
As you rightly suggest, Populism is an ideology that requires an "in-group", aka "the people," and an out-group, who are essentially sub-human.
In almost every instance where populist movements take power, those regiemes, which are virtually always lead by demagogic autocrats and totalitarians--as that's the nature of Populism--those in the "out-groups" are subject to attest, imprisonment, torture, and (all to frequently) political mass murder.
Populism has an extremely bloody history as an umbrella ideology. Just look at the death toll of Populist regiemes in the past 100 years or so and consider the lack of respect they have had for human rights, political freedom, and liberal democracy.
In fact, I'd argue that liberal democracy faces no greater threat than that posed by Populism.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,337 posts)Yavin4
(35,438 posts)All it takes is a charismatic leader who can convince a population that all of their problems are because of "others". "Others" being other races, genders, immigrants, nationalities, etc. People look for the simplest solutions thinking that it will solve all of their problems, and Fascism delivers.
Democracy requires that people actively work together. Compromise. Propose policies that everyone can agree with. It takes time to build a true consensus. It requires reasoning and full understanding of issues.
In sum, Fascism is easy. Democracy is hard.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)
building. My husband & I know the history of the 20th century pretty well, & being 75 we knew the people who lived through the World Wars themselves. We know America has its own dark strain of fascism but we & the best of our leaders managed to pull us back in time thus the US became instrumental in winning against the Kaiser and the Axis instead of standing by.
So hubby knew exactly what I meant when I said, If we go bad along with the rest of the world this time who will there be to play the part of America? Who will save the US?
These thoughts have not gone away.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)I hear you loud and clear, Hekate. If we fall to fascism, no one will be there to save us. And the rest of the world will quickly follow.
That's horrible and depressing. Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for ignorance. And at this moment, ignorance is the enemy that could end us all.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)and / or had Hitler been disciplined enough to focus on Britain before starting up with Russia, very likely we would in fact have sat back and watch Germany take over Europe.
NJCher
(35,667 posts)I don't understand why so many are attracted to fascism.
thinking issues. Suggested book: Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom.
Rebl2
(13,501 posts)and sickening.
maxsolomon
(33,338 posts)Even before it had a name. The trend to it is part of our nature, and must ever be guarded against.
llashram
(6,265 posts)I still feel we do have enough critical thinkers to thwart their plans here and I hope worldwide. Dumbing down future leaders in early school and beyond is peeked by many and rejected. They do their own research. Still plenty of free thinkers especially in the Next Gen. And yes...VOTE no matter the obstacles.
hadEnuf
(2,190 posts)30 + years of instant and relentless country-wide communication with no rules, policy or code of decency or truth. There are people literally walking around in a different reality that is reinforced for them 24/7/365.
Goebbels would have hyper-ventilated at even the thought of that much influence and power.
Evolve Dammit
(16,725 posts)The left had nothing to counter except a brief stint by Air America. Fairness Doctrine is needed again.
hadEnuf
(2,190 posts)Opposing views are fine but the other side is at the point of pure violent propaganda. Look what happened in Rwanda.
Evolve Dammit
(16,725 posts)seems to notice, nobody seems to care." Except us "libtards" as they would say. We have our work cut out for us. I wish media and corporations would step up, but that's how it works I guess. Like when Orange Julius was running and subsequently appointed, he was making them too much $ to call out his lies. Continues today. Bloatus runs them. But I digress....
Ponietz
(2,969 posts)Byung-Chul Han, contemporary German philosopher.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)But they are doing it.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Far too many people just don't understand. And if/when they "get it," it may/will be too late.
Stuart G
(38,421 posts)As far as those people are concerned, it is a game of"follow the leader & the cause" whoever. wherever, they are.
scipan
(2,350 posts)So glad you correctly nailed racism as the bait.
I want to play devil's advocate for a bit. Immigration. I believe that the driving force, at least in the USA, is need for cheap labor by the big corporations. And that is fueled by citizens reproducing at below the replacement rate of 2.1.
The government is also in favor of it, in order to offset the increasing imbalance between the retired, who are a drain on social services, and the workers.
But many people are perceiving the increasing population of nonwhite people as culture killing and jobs competing, which has some truth to it. Also racism obviously.
We need to solve the immigration problem. Crack down on illegals and make the process more streamlined and reasonable. That should lower the resentment level and leave less for fascists to use as bait.
What do DUers think?
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)scipan
(2,350 posts)Walls don't work very well, as I understand it.
ETA: I like the idea that Dems put forth a long time ago of corporations verifying each employee, and increasing the penalty.
I also like the USA spending money to stabilize some Democratic South American countries.
I'm talking about a partial solution to the problem you bring up. Not everyone will stop being racist when there is a real problem.
wiggs
(7,812 posts)any human population that needs or wants a significant autocratic component in their lives. It seems that people in general may inherently be set up to respond to authority...but that there's a wide range of need in people, some much more than others. I posit that in general people who want/need to defer more to a father figure, the police, the president, the pope, the military, a cult figure, etc will trend toward signing up with the gop.
Used to be fine to be a republican. Many, if not most, of our parents were gop. Then comes the 80s. For the last several decades a combination of wealth concentration, rise of the corporation, marketing advances, consolidation of media, the use of hate and polarization etc has taken advantage of this need for authority among some of us to weaponize them against democracy.
Money, using propaganda and marketing and polarization, has found a willing percentage of people around the world who will vote or otherwise act against their own interests. It has been a surprise to how many people in the US have this need to follow a leader and go up against truth, democracy, education, justice, empathy, and freedom.
Agree with the OP. I just think it's part of the human experience to have psychological variation within a population such that there's a percentage open to fascism and it has been recognized and weaponized.
Kaleva
(36,298 posts)TigressDem
(5,125 posts)and want to keep ALL THAT POWER and subjugate the rest.
Because their propaganda machine is running all out full time, it makes people believe that fascism is actually saving them from fascism.
IT'S THE LIES of the top 1% that is creating ignorance and trying to whitewash history so no one EVER knows again what it is to be truly free and responsible for that freedom.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)...
The sheriff admits he feels guilty because he didn't question the lack of autopsy of the victim, and didn't care that there were powder burns on the victim despite the deputy testifying that Jagger shot the victim from across a room. The sheriff wanted to be reelected, and as such went along with the status quo.
...
However, Jagger is hanged anyway at 9:30, much to the delight of the town. The sky becomes even darker after the execution. The deputy is convinced that the darkness is nothing more than fog, which will eventually lift, but neither the sheriff or reporter are convinced.
Later, a radio broadcast reveals that the town is not the only place where this disturbance is happening. The sky has turned dark over North Vietnam, a section of the Berlin Wall, a political prison in Budapest, a section of Chicago, Dealey Plaza (the street in Dallas where President Kennedy was fatally shot), the city of Birmingham, Alabama, a section of Shanghai, China, and other places around the world where hatred runs rampant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Night%E2%80%94Color_Me_Black
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,343 posts)Roe, Roe, Roe your vote
against theocracy!
Republicans revoke your rights
and kill democracy!
THESE are the races that will determine control of the House of Representatives:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217192221
Stick 'em up for a blue wave: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217078977
Response to Cyrano (Original post)
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