Fox News Compares a Film Examining White Women's Racism to Pearl Harbor

[Nevilledog]

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https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/deconstructing-karen-fox-news/

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https://archive.ph/s1BAb


A provocative if uneven documentary about an intriguing project to help white women acknowledge their own racism sent Fox News huckster Jesse Watters into hysterics Monday night, calling it an attack comparable to Pearl Harbor. The film, Deconstructing Karen, was made by American women, but distributed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Apparently, our peaceful allies to the north are coming for us.

“America’s under attack tonight. A cross-border war has been waged by our northern neighbors,” Watters began.

Thanks, Jesse! I had no plans Tuesday night, and I had to see this. I reached out to project organizer and activist Saira Rao, who connected me with director Patty Ivins Specht, who sent me a screener. I settled in and prepared to feel attacked.

And you know, sometimes I did. That’s the point. Even the most (self-designated) enlightened white ally can have blind spots, and Deconstructing Karen walks us through most of them.

*snip*

[Casady1]

1. Watters went to Chinatown

And made fun of Chinese immigrants who couldn't speak English.

[TigressDem]

3. And yet.... if we go to China, we expect them to help us in English.

I love languages, but their alphabet is a monster.

I can readily admit I am probably not as smart as a kindergartner in China.

EDUCATED Chinese know about 8,000 of 20,000 - 50,000 characters. Maybe it's like words generally that the more you read, the more you become comfortable with them. See them in context.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/chinese/real_chinese/mini_guides/characters/characters_howmany.shtml

[TigressDem]

2. I think the way to make it more appealing would be to call it "hidden racism"

I was the kid who had friends of all colors and my Mom and Dad thought it was great.

My Dad was open that being in the military programmed him to be racist, as he looked at people "different from him" as potential enemies because in war, that is usually the case. But he met people and "judged them by their behavior" not their skin color.

My Mom used to run away to the Indian Reservation when she had problems at home.

So I grew up thinking that white people were no better or worse than any other group.

BUT THERE IS A LOT WE DON'T KNOW about the stuff in our society that is racist that we simply absorb without thinking about it.

I teased a coworker once when she beat me from the bus to the door of our office THAT "You must have been a racehorse in a former life. You went FAST!"

So I got pulled into the manager's office and got explained to that equating someone of color with an animal is racist and offensive, and since she was a Christian and not a believer in multiple lives she objected to that as well."

I did not mean it that way, but it was her right to see it that way and I was glad to be educated.

REDLINING is something I learned about and that pushes people of color out of the suburbs.

LEARNING ABOUT WHAT IS HURTFUL so we can NOT DO THAT is good.

Being ripped for not knowing what we don't know seems anti educational.


I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A SHOW.... "WHAT I WISH WHITE PEOPLE WOULD QUIT DOING.... and then give examples of things that happen and how we are clueless as to how that affects another person."

I think liberal white women get defensive when we are called Karens when we don't feel entitled or abusive, just basically confused and hurt that no matter how hard we try, we still get lumped in with people who ACTIVELY SEEK TO DOMINATE AND DISCRIMINATE BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM FEEL SUPERIOR.

To me, there IS only one race, HUMAN.

There are a lot of varieties and we do treat each other like crap at times and some people are targeted. I want to help make that stop. I want police to not profile and apply higher consequences to someone just because they are different. I want a**hats like tRump and his family to not be able to exclude people from their real estate on basis of race.

I want Martin Luther King's dream to become a reality, that people are judged not by the color of their skin but the content of their character.

Some days I just wished that what's on the inside of me could really help, but realistically, there is so much more work to do in the real physical world to make it a safer and more equitable world for our brothers and sisters of all colors and cultures.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. .

I think liberal white women get defensive when we are called Karens when we don't feel entitled or abusive, just basically confused and hurt that no matter how hard we try, we still get lumped in with people who ACTIVELY SEEK TO DOMINATE AND DISCRIMINATE BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM FEEL SUPERIOR.

And this is the problem, actually. White women -- even liberal white women -- benefit from white supremacy. If they're not actively dismantling it, they're helping uphold it. Insisting their not racist and don't discriminate and don't see color just wastes time we don't have anymore.

[TigressDem]

13. WHENEVER I get a tool to dismantle any portion of racism I use it. GIVE ME MORE TOOLS.

Not a fucking lecture, unless it's about a tool to fight racism and how to use it.

*****************
I think liberal white women get defensive when we are called Karens when we don't feel entitled or abusive, just basically confused and hurt that no matter how hard we try, we still get lumped in with people who ACTIVELY SEEK TO DOMINATE AND DISCRIMINATE BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM FEEL SUPERIOR.

And this is the problem, actually. White women -- even liberal white women -- benefit from white supremacy. If they're not actively dismantling it, they're helping uphold it. Insisting their not racist and don't discriminate and don't see color just wastes time we don't have anymore.
****************

PREJUDICE sees people as OTHER and/or defective, evil etc....

IF you assume that because a person is white they are other, evil and/or defective.... that is a prejudgement.

I see people as they are. People. Good and bad depending on what got into their noggins and what they do with it.

OUR SYSTEM IS SCREWED UP. Yes, in ways, white women do benefit from white supremacy as in they don't get dragged out of their cars and murdered by police. But you DO KNOW WHAT WHITE SUPREMACISTS DO TO THEIR WIVES, THEIR DAUGHTERS, THEIR SONS, DON'T YOU? THAT SHIT ISN'T GOOD FOR ANY ONE.


The crap we learn subliminally needs to be unlearned, but some of us our ready to learn, we simply need to know what the facts are so we can get to it.

I am over "crying about it." I just want to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT and quit being blamed for not knowing what I don't know.


More information, less whining and blaming everyone all around, would be a nice change of pace.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. .

PREJUDICE sees people as OTHER and/or defective, evil etc.... IF you assume that because a person is white they are other, evil and/or defective.... that is a prejudgement. I see people as they are. People. Good and bad depending on what got into their noggins and what they do with it.

Yes, that's all fine. People can do this and still uphold white supremacy.

AND ALSO OUR SYSTEM IS SCREWED UP. Yes, in ways, white women do benefit from white supremacy as in they don't get dragged out of their cars and murdered by police.

That...is not the only marker of white supremacy or white women's privilege, but okay. (And white women are certainly murdered by police.)

The crap we learn subliminally needs to be unlearned, but some of us our ready to learn, we simply need to know what the facts are so we can get to it.

Right, which is why white women learning about the role they play -- sometimes inadvertently! -- in white supremacy is so important. And the learning that needs to be done is long, hard, boring and painful -- but deeply necessary.

I am over "crying about it." I just want to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT and quit being blamed for not knowing what I don't know.

Pointing out people don't know something is not blame. And if you do know something, then it's not directed at you.

More information, less whining and blaming everyone all around, would be a nice change of pace.

Granted, I haven't seen this movie, but...it seems like it's more information?

[TigressDem]

14. Hidden Racism. Isn't that what liberal WW want to uncover and remove?

Isn't that what pointing out "blind spots" is supposed to help?

But sitting at a table assigning blame CLOSES PEOPLE UP instead of prepares them to accept responsibility and take action.

Sitting at a table and telling your story and letting someone get to know your world view... helpful.

IF I KNOW THAT ANYTHING I HAVE DONE OR MIGHT DO is hurtful to another human being, that is motivation for me to examine and make the effort to change that behavior.

IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS TO LABEL ME and say it's my job to figure out why they did it... not helpful.

SO there are parts that work, but it could be a lot better.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. .

Isn't that what pointing out "blind spots" is supposed to help? But sitting at a table assigning blame CLOSES PEOPLE UP instead of prepares them to accept responsibility and take action.

Okay, it sounds like you don't want to sit at a table and have someone point out the gaps in understanding you might have. But these women did so. It sounds like you might find it painful to watch that? That's fine too. But it's important to understand that pointing out gaps in understanding isn't assigning blame.

Sitting at a table and telling your story and letting someone get to know your world view... helpful.

Part of white supremacy is centering the white experience when learning about racism and making sure the people learning don't experience any discomfort when hearing about the absolutely wrenching and traumatic experiences of other people.

IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS TO LABEL ME and say it's my job to figure out why they did it... not helpful.

Wait, are you in the movie? Is someone labeling you?

[TigressDem]

18. Yeah, you are funny.

Calling white liberal women who paid money to educate themselves "KAREN" and then asking them to raise their hands in advance and label themselves as racists really throws a blame blanket over the whole effort.

BUT I guess it gets the conversation going.

My point is that liberal white women are prone to self education, inquisitive and open to change or they wouldn't identify as liberals.

SO if you tell them there is "hidden racism" it's a better bait than telling them YOU ARE A KAREN, PAY ME MONEY TO LET ME CHANGE YOU.

WHEN someone shares the trauma and pain of their experience, yeah, I might cry in empathy, feel guilt for being white, but THAT changes me. I can't walk back and not know how a new aspect of racism affects someone once I have a face to put to that issue.

I NEVER EVER even accidentally teased a person of color about in any way that would equate them with an animal or animal behavior after I had that one lesson. She cried and was angry and hurt. I never had intended that.

I do have a lot of multicultural viewpoints floating in my mind, so to ME the Native American viewpoint of seeing animals as beautiful and intelligent teachers to human kind was where I was coming from. I was telling her she was better than me, beat me in a fair race and had the heart of what I saw as a beautiful animal that gives it's all when it moves like the wind.

Reading about how slaves were treated as animals to "keep them in their place" was such an aha moment.

Changing myself to never hurt someone like my coworker ever again, totally worth it.

BUT THOSE women humiliated on TV, will they get that deep down message or will the shame of the application give them an excuse to ignore the truth?

[Demsrule86]

22. I will never watch the movie. I hate that sort of shit...it doesn't help anyone.

[gulliver]

4. Hmm. White women? Why would Fox News be trying to turn white women against the left?

I can't believe that anybody on the left but a tiny few, self-selected, attention-seeking fools (and perhaps some also seeking a paycheck) would be producing or defending "Karen content" right before a key U.S. election. But leave it to Fox News to find them and give them airtime.

Unfortunately, the laws of probability say it's always going to be possible to find an immoral few on the left who choose themselves as the self-elected, inept spokespeople for our side. One of our responsibilities on the left, imo, is to identify unelected, voter repellant maladroits on our side and let them know they're blowing it for everyone. Especially, if they're Canadian, as the filmmakers apparently are in this case.

This film could be a false flag, too, of course. One has to wonder whether a well-meaning group in Canada produced a film for a Canadian audience, and some U.S. right wingers decided to import it just in time to help alienate women in the U.S. Call me paranoid.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. There is never a bad time for white women to examine their role in upholding white supremacy.

[Demsrule86]

23. I don't believe that at all. We unity now.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. When is a "better" time for white women to examine the role they play in white supremacy?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

5. It starts very badly, but ends up making Watters mad, so there's that.

“The only way you can change the DNA is through personal interactions,” Rao says. “And the best way to do that is breaking bread.”

When I sit down to eat, I sit down to eat. The rudest thing anyone can do at that point is ask me a question.

(I'm ignoring the faulty DNA reference).

[TigressDem]

17. Maybe "DNA" in this case is Do Not Ask...

Do Not Ask US to teach YOU.

It's not our job to educate you.

I hear that at high levels, but one on one people have been open and honest.

That always helps because the more people you talk to the more you realize that we ALL (as Oprah says) have a story that would break your heart.

Connecting to people makes you realize that the person is more important than anything you can think or believe about their race or culture.

AND I get it that people who have been held down for so long need to vent and be heard about how fu**ing horrible it was/is.

BUT I AM IMPATIENT.

I want to know what can be done WRIT LARGE to end their pain.

[NameStolen]

6. Speaking of blind spots...

Speaking of blind spots... let's talk about the title.

What were those filmmakers thinking when they "borrowed" the personal identity of 12 million diverse people for the title of their movie? Did they really not see their hypocrisy in taking an essential personal characteristic and normalizing its use as a stereotype for people to belittle and harass? Or their privilege and entitlement in ignoring the impact that villainizing a personal and tribal name has on people who actually have that name?

Did they somehow manage to unsee that the predominant misuse of "Karen" as a slur in the US and throughout the world is as a weapon for degrading and silencing ALL women and girls for ANY reason?

The intent of this movie may have been good, but the title gaffe reveals shallow execution, based on sensationalism instead of deep thought or research, and framed around promotability rather than product. The filmmakers clearly haven't thought enough outside their own experience to be trustworthy. I'll give it a miss.

[betsuni]

8. "tribal name"

[Torchlight]

9. I'm guessing the easiest films to critique are those we've never seen.

As is the ease of judging a book by its title.

[Torchlight]

34. Context can be inconvenient.

Mark Twain realized that too.


The historical text about Soviet rule, Utopia in Power by Heller and Nekrich would be conveniently, yet ironically, critiqued as suffering from a "serious, underlying flaw in perspective" as well.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. We're not even 10 reponses in (until this one) and this thread is already hilarious.

Sorry, Nevilledog.

[TigressDem]

19. Sorry Nevilledog.

Not trying to hijack your thread.

I am basically frustrated with liberal white women being bashed on one had by our own allies and legislated to death by the REICH Wing.

I can not know what is in someone's heart and mind unless they tell me.

I educate myself the best I can, but all I hear about "how white women benefit from white supremacy" doesn't get to the actual factual part of it.

Maybe I will just have to find people who will talk, write my own book and put it out there.

HERE IS THE CRAP you should NOT DO
(if you want to get rid of every last shred of racism that has been steeped into the white person experience)

Just a working title.

[Demsrule86]

24. That is what I think. This is just to drive white women away from liberalism...no one wants to be

told that she is a 'secret racist' and that all the evil shit that went down is her fault. Why not White men...they hold the power. But you know what man or woman, I find this movie pointless.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. .

No one wants to be told that she is a 'secret racist'

What if she is, though? What if her actions are helping upholding racist systems, regardless of her intent? Would a white woman who's a Democrat want to know? Is prioritizing her feelings in that case the main concern?

[TigressDem]

31. OK, try a differnt application of this concept. You are a secret MAGA.

It doesn't matter that you are a Democrat.
It doesn't matter that you would never vote for tRump.
It doesn't matter if you are a card carrying, meeting attending, committed worker and financial supporter of NAACP.
It doesn't matter if you would put your own body between a Chauvin type cop and a person on the ground he was trying to beat.
It doesn't matter because someone said there was a dinner you could go to and learn how to solve problems in America.
You put your money down and are on TV being grilled about how your actions COULD line up with MAGA without your conscious knowledge.
You are an American after all and this country elected tRump and he's still pulling crap, so you must be complicit.
You MUST.
It's part of being a white American in this country.
There are even Blacks for tRump... so just being in America makes us MAGA.

Or does it?

[TigressDem]

28. I don't think it's pointless. It's controversial, so it sells and it brings awareness.

But it also seems to create more division than it resolves. I will find it online and watch it anyway. The approach sounds dismissive and yet some people here seem to think it could work.

What bothers me is that the times I have felt most educated were when people just told me the crap they don't like or reading about the history which is why I was excited about CRT.

They probably think many white men won't deal with it at all.

I know if a man pays for a meal, he isn't going to want to be confronted the whole time.

But women have more skills with figuring out how to make relationships work, so in theory it's a good place to start.

[RobinA]

20. Nothing Will Change

"an intriguing project to help white women acknowledge their own racism" What could possibly go wrong? Why do people think stuff like this will change anything for the better?

How many people like other people assuming they think in a certain way and need help to change? THIS NEVER WORKS and it won't work now.

[TigressDem]

29. Never is a word that can come back and bite a person.

If you think about your own life and any huge mistake you made or something that went sideways really bad, did you learn anything from it?

The idea of sitting down and helping people see how our society structure is woven with racist strands and finding out how to identify and remove them, is intriguing.

But trying to whap some Karen's over the head with knowledge is just drama TV.

Still with some slight course correction, it might work.

[Solly Mack]

21. K&R

[Initech]

27. America's really under attack by a power hungry Australian oligarch.

Just think where we would be if Fox News didn't exist.

[TigressDem]

30. True.

Faux kKkNews is a pox on society.