Hundreds of people have died in Florida

[malaise]

This is a catastrophic hurricane

[Lovie777]

1. Oh noes . ...

[Walleye]

2. It seems the number of fatalities is a mystery at this point for some reason

[Emile]

3. My thoughts too!

Got to make the governor look good. .

[Walleye]

6. It just struck me because in other disasters the death toll is one of the things you hear first

[Brenda]

5. No mystery.

Desantis is pumping himself up, only giving out the good numbers...rescues, evacuations, power that is still on, while completely ignoring the extreme devastation to homes, businesses and infrastructure which has to include a large number of deaths.

He can't hide it for very long but it will always be a low count if there were undocumented communities hit. After a tornado leveled my city the death toll was absurdly low and everyone knew the east side where a lot of immigrants lived was hit the worst. But the coroner doesn't include any body without a US SSN. Absurd and sick.

[Walleye]

8. It reminds me of the way Trump tried to play down the Covid threat

[malaise]

12. Same with Covid - BK DeathSentence is evil

[Walleye]

14. Yes it's a shame we can't trust the information from the state governor at a time like this

[malaise]

16. This time there is FEMA

And Biden already said substantial loss of life. They already know this is catastrophic

[Irish_Dem]

25. I wonder why Biden and FEMA don't release the numbers?

[malaise]

27. They will

People know this is very bad

[Irish_Dem]

36. Yes it is looking like it is very bad.

[Bettie]

48. They probably don't know the full extent of

it yet. Might take a bit to get the numbers accurate.

[Hortensis]

51. Yes. It's a bit premature. Remember, the focus is still on saving lives,

where it should remain. Not everyone who has died has been found yet, and rescuers and medical personnel have not finally come to the end of trying to save those who are still alive.

[Brenda]

18. Yep, just like Covid undercount.

Lying Liars

[bedazzled]

117. It disturbed me when Biden said "deadliest storm"

There was a storm in Okeechobee in 1928 that killed around 2,000.

I'm sure he knows that

[Brenda]

119. Yeah, back in the day hurricanes killed thousands.

My paternal grandfather died because of Hazel at 55, before I was born.

I don't think Biden meant of all time, probably just in recent times. Don't recall his exact words.

Let's hope it is not that high!

[bedazzled]

121. My condolences on your grandpa

I hardly knew any of my grandparents and that is a missed opportunity

[sir pball]

142. The ravaged communities are wealthy and White.

My father's lived in Punta Rassa (Shell Point retirement community) for about ten years now — the devastated areas, from Captiva to Naples to Port Charlotte, are all very affluent very White areas. The immigrant area in Fort Myers is fairly far inland, they probably did get a good bit of flooding and damage but nothing massively deadly.

[malaise]

9. Climbing fast

Lots of deaths on those the barrier islands - places like St James City in Pine Island.
All those mobile homes are gone.
Sadly bodies will be floating in the sea for days to come. Rumors are that many homes were literally washed into the Gulf of Mexico.

[Walleye]

13. I kind of thought the recovery effort would make it difficult to determine the number of lives lost

I just don’t trust the state government of Florida to tell the truth about anything

[magicarpet]

35. DeSantis will just leave the deceased bodies floating in the water,...

. . and let the sharks and alligators clean up the area. That way the bodies just disappear and are not registered in the total death count.

Making DeSantis look good,... fudging the death count totals,.. to make him appear to be such a good governor.

[Hortensis]

53. Well, we should believe the rescue workers are working themselves

to exhaustion trying to save lives and collecting the bodies of those people who died.

If DeSantis were out there alone, that'd be different. No off-kilter conspiracism needed to believe his main concerns would be for turning this tragedy to political benefit. He's not even uncommon in that.

[Demovictory9]

129. Oh no..why did so many stay?

[malaise]

131. I have a family friend and his wife a few miles from Fort Myers

and he refused my advice to leave, word is that they are safe but beyond stressed out.
These are intelligent people. I will never get it.

[3Hotdogs]

17. The reason is, authorities/rescue can't get in to the areas.

[Takket]

33. mystery? These areas are in RUINS. It doesn't take a day to search them

[maxrandb]

39. Considering what Florida did with COVID statistics

It's prudent not to believe any numbers published by the state.

Everything Retrumplican is politicized and manipulated to support "Dear Leader"

I think they learned this tactic from Putin.

[Walleye]

40. I know. It's pretty bad that we can't really trust the state government.

They may be telling the absolute truth in this situation. But the story is shifting a little bit from the governor. I’m only going on their past with transparency

[haele]

42. Storm surge. Some people may have been swept out to sea as it receded.

Some people swept further inland as the homes or boats they hunkered down in were caught up in the storm surge as it was coming in.

I fear for the amount of homeless or working poor in the area that couldn't get to a high shelter like a parking garage and didn't have the means to leave quickly to a safer location.

Haele

[Walleye]

43. Yes I really hope it's not worse than we are hearing but it looks really really bad

[haele]

46. The number of transients and homeless will probably be undercounted.

Too many of them would not be known to be in the area due to the nature of the situation; if they had been hunkering down near the shore and swept out to sea, no one would find the bodies.

Haele

[Walleye]

49. That really is a tragic situation

[Hortensis]

58. A lot of homeless shelters arrange extra capacity and get the word out

when hurricanes are coming, and of course Florida opens hundreds of emergency shelters.

Most homeless and near-homeless people know where they are and how to get to them. They're typically within reach of public transportation, and counties and cities also provide emergency shuttles to get people to shelters.

Newcomers to FL and ill and mentally ill people are of course at much greater risk, but community workers and private organizations, and good samaritans, will have been helping get those they find, and who agree, to shelter.

Of course this is about the resources in place to keep homeless people from dying, not counting the bodies of those who do anyway.

[brooklynite]

4. Per CNN: death toll is 19

More deaths are discovered, authorities say: There have been 19 reported deaths across Florida in connection with Ian. The majority of those killed were in hard-hit Charlotte and Lee counties.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/hurricane-ian-florida-updates-09-30-22/index.html

[malaise]

10. And no hurricane is heading for Florida

😀

[ananda]

24. Undercounted by at least 1000 %

...

[brooklynite]

28. Based on what?

[ananda]

32. Based on rightwing lies and manipulation of the narrative.

nt

[brooklynite]

34. You're saying (without evidence) that they're suppressing the death count?

[maxrandb]

44. Just look at what Florida did in reporting COVID deaths and transmission

An historical record of politicizing numbers of fatalities to benefit politicians can surely be considered as evidence of a pattern.

Folks are saying Florida is under reporting fatalities because they have a track record of doing so.

[brooklynite]

50. Not remotely the same

Hiding covid deaths didn't mean denying people died, it meant disputing the cause. In a hurricane, bodies are bodies.

[Hortensis]

61. Just look at reality: they don't have numbers to suppress yet.

As for the idea that CNN is compacting the real numbers of deaths to 19 (!), that their professionals somehow want to put that over as "the" death count (while also reporting bodies are still being found) and believe they can get away with it? That's...whacked. That's not balanced evaluation, and it's hardly the only example.

Politicizing Ian has now revved up the now-routine social media brainsucking, radicalizing syndromes.

Those who were swept away by Ian were not the only ones endangered, but aware people will not let themselves be carried away on line either.

Everyone stay safe.

[Takket]

37. bullshit

I can't believe i'm reading this conspiracy theory NONSENSE on DU. What, do you think the local first responders have dragged 200 bodies out of the mud, told the state about them, and the state just isn't saying anything? Do you think that would actually work??? Do you think they tell the State and then no one just ever talks about it again if the State says nothing??????? Do you think these calls just go to Desantis himself and die there? Do you think Desantis is the sole receiver and disseminator of death information? Do you think local officials that ID the dead don't have press conferences with the media to talk about how many they have found? Do you think LOCAL hospitals and coroners don't keep their own records?

It has been a DAY since search and rescue efforts began. The state is crippled without water and electricity. Hey, how long was it before we had a death count on 9/11? Did we have all 3000+ bodies ID'ed and accounted for on September 12th?

Your post and those like them in this thread are an absolute insult and affront to the first responders working their asses off to ID the dead and rescue the living.

Keep in mind too that Biden has mobilized a massive FEDERAL response to this disaster as well. Is the Coast Guard helping to cover up the number of dead? IS BIDEN in on this too???????

ABSURD

[Hortensis]

64. +1. Yet another brainsucking social media storm

may be organizing into a hurricane.

Storm watchers note a strong tendency in those being carried away to develop resemblances to those they attack. Apparently many of the dynamics of radicalization and extreme polarization, including conspiratorial thinking, are intrinsic to radicalization and polarization themselves and not confined to any particular political orientation.

And, yes, most aware people believe reasonably and rationally that DeSantis will likely try to shrink the death count if it's politically beneficial to him, and that he'll inflate it if that is. And I personally believe CNN will massage coverage to at least minimize damage from his chicanery to Republican electoral chances, and possibly help, because CNN's been proven to do that. So I'm fine with sticking to realistic, fact-supported suspicions that for me are far more than bad enough.

[Treefrog]

69. Thank you!

+1000

[Treefrog]

68. Not true.

Come on now.

[Sky Jewels]

169. And you think that initial count is the final word? Really?

You do realize that there are mountains of debris in areas that are hard to access due to the fact they've been wiped out by a freaking hurricane? And there are likely many, many bodies yet to be found? And a lot of people can't contact their loved ones and don't know whether they're living or dead?

[brooklynite]

171. I was stating the reported deaths at the time...

Malaise was claiming a death toll based on no reporting. If the Op was “I THINK there will be hundreds of deaths”, I wouldn’t have commented at all, and would only responded to the unsupported allegation that DeSantis will (of course) under-report the deaths.

[spanone]

7. Yes it is...

K&R

[Maine Abu El Banat]

11. Will Desatan

Use his covid math to report the fatalities.

[malaise]

15. THIS

But President Biden has already prepared folks for the deadliest hurricane in Florida, FEMA will release the real numbers.

[Phoenix61]

19. There were 7 deaths due to Michael.

It serves no purpose to lie about the number of deaths. The vast majority will be in mandatory evacuation zones or people who tried to “save their boat.”

[MichMan]

21. I heard most typically are post storm compared to during the event

People clearing or fixing damage by falling off roofs, power lines or killed felling trees.

[Phoenix61]

22. Yes, sadly. Or in car accidents because all the traffic lights

Are out and stop signs are missing.

[malaise]

30. Drowning will be the number one cause this time

one woman who escaped saw big fish swimming by.
There was a video here with a shark swimming up a street.

[Richard D]

20. There will be many missing . . .

. . . who will never be found. Will those be added to the death count?

[Phoenix61]

23. Yes. nt

[Irish_Dem]

26. Don't the authorities say something like "dead or missing." ??

[Richard D]

29. Yes,

I believe that is correct. I wonder what desatan will say?

[magicarpet]

38. DeSantis will say,....

... they went to get a sandwich at ChickFillet,.. they just haven't returned yet.

[GreenWave]

41. If waves reached 16 feet high as feared

And homes are close to the ground, all inside drown.

[bullwinkle428]

45. It seemed like months before we got the real death toll for Katrina, and

even then, the number seemed low (1833) given the scope of the destruction.

[Hortensis]

47. And virtually all were the result of inadequate understanding

of what was coming.

People everywhere, against all the new evidence, still tend to assume that what happened in the past will continue and that if it didn't happen before it won't.

Climate change means that mindset really needs to change. We're not talking any more about "100-year" and "500-year" chances to make tragic mistakes but potentially any year, and this goes for all climate-related disasters, including fire and disease.

Cataclysmic wildfires in eastern forests and wildfire sweeping across midwest metropolitan areas haven't started yet, but they will, sure as...climate change. And when they do, many who didn't evacuate because it'd never happened before will die.

Fortunately, Floridians actually have far more experience than most of their fellow Americans with disaster, so a lot of the needed modern infrastructure and all of the government and private planning and response resources were in place -- and people who'd been there a while knew hurricanes kill.

That's why the numbers of deaths from this giant hurricane, tragic and mostly avoidable as they are, are actually extremely low.

[Brenda]

52. Cajun Navy guy on CNN just now

Said at least hundreds are dead. He's on a boat rescuing people so I'm sure he's seen it.

Why do people deny this?

[Renew Deal]

54. I don't think most people really know.

And hundreds dead in a hurricane in the modern US is unusual. Katrina 1800+ and Sandy (233) are anomalies. But this storm was like those storms so I wouldn’t be surprised if a combination of imprecise forecast, people gaming the storm, rapid strengthening, and normalcy bias killed a lot of people.

[malaise]

56. Ian had the four worst characterstics

A huge eye, ridiculous strength, full of rain and slow moving.
This hurricane was bigger than Katrina

[Brenda]

59. Just passing along what someone in the field said.

It used to be a rare thing to have a high number of fatalities but not with these new monster storms. Ian is still 500 miles wide, covering NC, SC and Virginia. Katrina hit a city....this thing has surged, flooded and wind damaged hundreds of miles where it is densely populated.

[malaise]

55. I heard him

President Biden would not have said a substantial number of deaths or may be the deadliest hurricane in Florida without sound information - this was like a slow fucking tsunami - most of these poor people drowned.

[Brenda]

60. Yep, drowned a lot, unfortunately.

And not just at the coast. Orlando was insane with the water rescues!

[malaise]

62. Someone just said reminds them of a tsunami.

I suggested a tidal wave would hit a few days ago. This is scary shit.

[Brenda]

63. Yeah, even long time Florida residents

keep saying how extremely fast the water came up from the islands, coastal area to landlocked Orlando. No time to get out or on roof.

[BlackSkimmer]

88. Wow, this is not true.

There are not hundreds dead. Why would you say such a thing?

The highest I've seen in 21, and those are not confirmed.

[brooklynite]

57. Because people rely on official documentation.

A volunteer in a boat may or may not have an accurate assessment.

[Kid Berwyn]

66. That's for sure. Ask Lyndon B. Johnson about the Gulf of Tonkin.

He swore up and down North Vietnam attacked the US Navy with torpedoes, officially.



Who knew he was lying? As JFK was dead, no one with authority to change policy.

LBJ Tapes on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident

Source: John Prados, The White House Tapes
(New York: The New Press, 2003)

Excerpt…

President Johnson: and he's saying you've got to study it further, and say to Mansfield, "Now the President wants us, you, to get the proper people." And we come in and you say, "They fired at us. We responded immediately. And we took out one of their boats and put the other two running. And we kept our..., we're puttin' our boats right there, and we're not running on in."

Secretary McNamara: And it's hard to destroy.

President Johnson: That's right

Secretary McNamara: Right. And we're going to, and I think I should also, or we should also at that time, Mr. President, explain this Op Plan 34-A, these covert operations. There's no question but what that had bearing on. And on Friday night, as you probably know, we had four TP [McNamara means PT] boats from Vietnam manned by Vietnamese or other nationals, attack two is lands. And we expended, oh, a thousand rounds of ammunition of one kind or another against them. We probably shot up a radar station and a few other miscellaneous buildings. And following twenty-four hours after that, with this destroyer in that same area, undoubtedly led them to connect the two events.

President Johnson: Well say that to Dirksen.

Secretary McNamara: That's what I know he'll like.

President Johnson: You notice Dirksen says this morning, that "we got to reassess the situation, do something about it." I'd tell him that we're doing what he's talking about.

Continues…

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm

And that’s why I prefer to make up my own mind when it comes to the official version of fact.

[Brenda]

110. +100

And to dismiss the Cajun Navy guy as just a volunteer when he is literally on a boat pulling people to safety. He's ex military intel who did this work in Ukraine and Iraq. But hey, let's just trust DeSantis numbers cause he's so honest!

[mnhtnbb]

65. I heard someone--FEMA Director or General Honore?--talking yesterday

about how they are going to have to get many, many teams of people in to search the devastated areas. Much larger area with more people than the job of searching New Orleans after Katrina. I also heard this morning that about 200 full time residents of Sanibel are unaccounted for at this point.

[Treefrog]

67. The death toll is officially 12.

Expecting more, but nowhere near 100s".

Don't do that.

[malaise]

70. Tell that to your

President

[Treefrog]

95. You are blaming your blatantly wrong OP on Biden?

Wow.

How many is substantial for you malaise? 20 not enough? 40 not enough?

Please do not try and put your words Biden's mouth. Thank you.

[malaise]

96. Apparently you don't have a clue what happened in Florida

Well over 10,000 people are unaccounted for. Rescuers have spoken of human remains from several persons who drowned in their homes. Federal, state and local officials are already hinting at the worst hurricane disaster and loss of life in US history.

This one is deadly serious - but keep up the personal attacks - water on a duck's back.

[Treefrog]

98. I did not in any way attack you malaise.

I told you not to put your words in our President's mouth.

I am very well aware of what's happening in Florida dear. I'm on my way there now.

Last I checked, you do not live here, or have I got that wrong malaise?

Please do update us all when you have a link for your claim.

[ananda]

103. I've been saying the toll would be in the thousands.

I'm 100% certain that is the case, but the way Florida
is, and the problem concerning immigrants and the poor,
who knows what will actually be reported.

[Treefrog]

125. You are so obviously uninformed as to how deaths are

reported and casualties counted in the United States.

That is kind of worrisome.

[ananda]

130. I'm also obviously correct.

Period

[Treefrog]

134. Please post a link then.

If you're so correct.

[sarisataka]

71. This thread is an embarrassment

DU is supposed to be the intelligent people who accept facts over conjecture, supposition and conspiracy theories.

It is one thing to claim a belief the count is low, likely true since rescuers haven't reached some of the hardest hit areas. It is another to claim hundreds, media collusion and bodies are being fed to sharks and alligators to hide them...

[malaise]

72. Here - what is the meaning of substantial

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/hurricane-ian-live-updates-rcna49927
President Joe Biden said Hurricane Ian may be responsible for "substantial loss of life" and could end up being the deadliest storm in Florida history.

By Thursday night, the death toll had climbed to 12, although the state has refused to officially comment on deaths.

Nearly 2 million homes and businesses across Florida remained without power after Ian walloped the state as one of the most powerful storms to ever hit the U.S.

CNN saying largest disaster in Florida's history

[FBaggins]

73. "Substantial" in no way justifies just making up your own number

CNN saying largest disaster in Florida's history

CNN isn't in a position to declare that something is the largest disaster in state history... nobody is.

"It bleeds it leads" drives reporting during a crisis. Reality takes a back seat until things are in the rear mirror.

[malaise]

74. One of their guests said hundreds are dead

Your president said possibly the largest number of deaths in a Florida storm.
That actually suggests more than the biggest previous one.

[FBaggins]

76. And "one of their guests" was the coroner counting the bodies?

A guest on CNN's speculative comments are no better than your own speculative comments.

Your president said possibly the largest number of deaths in a Florida storm.

And your OP title left off the critical "possibly"... because???

[muriel_volestrangler]

84. To be fair, the sheriff of the worst-hit county also said "hundreds" yesterday

Another Florida sheriff said he believed the death toll would be “in the hundreds.” Lee County Sheriff Carmine Marceno told ABC’s “Good Morning America” that his office was receiving thousands of 911 calls from people needing rescue in the county that includes Fort Myers, but roadways were still impassable and bridges are compromised.

“It crushed us,” Marceno said. “We still cannot access many of the people that are in need.”

Emergency crews sawed through toppled trees to reach people in flooded homes, but with no electricity and virtually no cell service, it was impossible for many people to call for help from the hardest hit coastal areas where the surge came in.

https://www.silive.com/nation/2022/09/hurricane-ian-live-updates-at-least-1-dead-people-trapped-in-flooded-homes-25m-without-power-in-florida.html

[FBaggins]

87. I'm not sure how that's "being fair"

Deaths are counted by finding people dead or after an extended period of someone being reported missing, and there's a reason to believe that they were in the areas hardest hit. They aren't counted when a sheriff is worried.

Is he an expert on the subject able to say "I've been through this three times and it has always resulted in scores of deaths and the signs here are much worse"? No... he's worried that he received lots of calls and they weren't able to send help.

Frankly - his job is to say "we know that many lost their lives and many others still need help. We're focused on rescuing everyone we can". There will be plenty of time to report sad news if and when it comes to pass.

Once again - someone believing that the death toll will be in the hundreds is entirely different from claiming "hundreds of people have died in FL". We saw reporting yesterday that Ginni Thomas believed that TFG won the election.

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. It's "being fair" because, in this sub-thread alone, we have had

"This thread is an embarrassment"
"DU is supposed to be the intelligent people who accept facts over conjecture, supposition and conspiracy theories"
"It is another to claim hundreds, media collusion and bodies are being fed to sharks and alligators to hide them."
"just making up your own numbe
"people who are in front of television all day - particularly cable news - begin to disassociate from what they're viewing and perceive it as just another drama coming out of the box"
" if part of your brain shuts off and it doesn't register as real - real people, real hardship, real pain, real death, and all of it requiring real empathy."
"start selectively cutting people off from TV and the Internet until they started acting like empathetic humans again"
"She and another poster claimed that hundreds of bodies were being hidden offshore"
"this poster and another made up claims after another hurricane before. Thank you for verifying it." (ed. note: this has not been "verified", it's just a repeat of a claim that a DUer made things up. No link to it yet)

So, that's "being unfair". "Being fair" is realising that a DUer is saying what a professional, totally involved in the disaster, said yesterday should not be answered with questioning their intelligence, empathy, or whether they are thinking at all.

'someone believing that the death toll will be in the hundreds is entirely different from claiming "hundreds of people have died in FL"' - well, no. It's not entirely different. It's the same claim; one is the prediction of someone working in the disaster, the other is a private individual who thinks they've seen nothing in the following day to contradict it. They are related, not "entirely different".

[FBaggins]

90. Nope - you're still not getting it

a DUer is saying what a professional, totally involved in the disaster, said yesterday

Nope. The difference between what someone believes and what actually is... is the difference between the news and "creative speculation" (to be fair)

DUers show up on GD to read "hundreds have died" and they assume that it's true. The thread is an "embarrassment".

"Some are concerned that the death toll could stretch into the hundreds" would have received an entirely different response. If for no other reason than it would have the benefit of being true. It is true that the sheriff thinks the body count could climb that high... it's probably also true that the initial poster thinks that it will. That's entirely different from it being reportable that that many people have died.

[muriel_volestrangler]

91. Pointing out the number is still speculation from those involved is also "being fair"

As I said, the unfair bit is just calling it "made up", a lack of empathy, intelligence or brain, and so on. And maybe you shouldn't get so easily embarrassed.

[sarisataka]

75. "Substantial" "could"

Biden is allowing the toll may go much higher. He is making any ridiculous claims of hiding or disposing of bodies. Let's give FEMA and rescue teams more than 36 hours before claiming widespread conspiracy.

The largest (deadliest) hurricane in Florida history was the Okeechobee hurricane in 1928. It is listed at "over 2,500".

[Sympthsical]

77. It's all fodder for entertainment

Honestly, I think people who are in front of television all day - particularly cable news - begin to disassociate from what they're viewing and perceive it as just another drama coming out of the box. Root for protagonists, howl at the villains. Hurricane Ian is practically a sweeps event for them.

The only way a lot of the commentary I've read about this humanitarian crisis and others previously is if part of your brain shuts off and it doesn't register as real - real people, real hardship, real pain, real death, and all of it requiring real empathy.

No, there's this villain - let's call him Blaine - and Blaine could do anything! Next week he'll usurp Crystal at the next board meeting for control over Wockington Cosmetics. But right now, he's feeding innocents to alligators and hiding bodies - because that's just what Blaine does!

If I were ever King of All Earth, one of my edicts would be to start selectively cutting people off from TV and the Internet until they started acting like empathetic humans again.

[Treefrog]

79. This poster did this before.

She and another poster claimed that hundreds of bodies were being hidden offshore. after a hurricane some years ago.

I'll try to find the thread when I can get to a computer.

This thread is an embarrassment, you are so right.

[obamanut2012]

81. I had another poster tell me this

ie this poster and another made up claims after another hurricane before.

Thank you for verifying it.

[obamanut2012]

80. Seriously -- I actually live in SOFL and know folks whose families are rescuing people there

It may be many, many deaths, but this "hundreds" of stuff is rank misinformation and total conjecture now.

The Cajun Navy dude knows no more than any other first responder there. My colleague's father is a commander (?) of the local Coast Guard Auxiliary there, and her cousin is a first responder who is working with the local folks over there. Firsthand info.

[malaise]

83. You posted that this storm was not heading to Florida

Last edited Fri Sep 30, 2022, 12:28 PM - Edit history (1)

and cited someone who was writing about Fiona or Garton. OK then.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217175344

[Treefrog]

114. And you posted that trump would be indicted on September 22.

Want me to link it?

What is your point?

[malaise]

116. ROFL

[Treefrog]

78. Why are you making stuff up?

I know this isn't the first time you have done this regarding loss of life in a disaster.

Why? Why do this? You will be proven wrong.

[malaise]

82. I have never posted about loss of life in hurricanes

My posts are usually about coming storms and forecasts about where they are going.

Both your President and I will be correct - you have no idea what happened in Florida

[Hortensis]

92. I hate that your sincere concern about the people whose lives may

have been lost, a subject horribly real to people who've lived through hurricanes, got overwhelmed and distracted from. We had a rush of posts pushing political memes, prematurely angry about DeSantis manipulating numbers that don't even exist yet, the now-routine exploitation of tragedy to promote grievance, and of course a good splash of conspiracist thinking added in.

Your and others' concern about real people who have been killed is real, and of course the hope is that the toll will be as low as can be, whatever that is. What we're learning, now that Ian has moved on and searching is possible, is what this thread should be about.

Speaking of progression, that Lee County sheriff who, overwhelmed by the unprecedented scale of the disaster, yesterday initially believed himself that deaths in his area would be in the hundreds. Then somewhat later less emotionally and cautiously reported that 5 had been confirmed so far.

And so we wait for the tally of tragedies.

“While I don’t have the confirmed numbers, I definitely know the fatalities are in the hundreds,” the sheriff said. “There are thousands of people that are waiting to be rescued and, again, cannot give a true assessment until we’re actually on the scene, assessing each scene, and we can’t access people, that’s the problem.”

[Treefrog]

100. That is not true.

And if you've forgotten doing so, well, yikes and no comment on that.

[iemanja]

85. What is your source?

[malaise]

93. I'm paying attention

Over 10,000 people are missing. Hopefully some moved

[obamanut2012]

99. None

I live here, i know who is leading some of the rescues, etc. This is misinformation at best.

[Treefrog]

101. At best.

And at worst, it's unconscionable.

[brooklynite]

102. UPDATE: "Dozens dead"

At least 31 people were confirmed dead, including 27 people in Florida mostly from drowning but others from the storm’s tragic aftereffects. An elderly couple died after their oxygen machines shut off when they lost power, authorities said.

https://apnews.com/article/hurricanes-floods-florida-north-carolina-caribbean-f537bc6e6d9481c4680a4a7af238bc6c

[Treefrog]

118. Still not hundreds?

I hope dozens is a description "substantial " enough for the OP.

[Tommy Carcetti]

86. We don't know that yet.

Not saying that you're wrong.

But we just don't know the extent of the human toll at this point.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

104. I fear the number of displaced, too.

There are a lot of folks who simply have nothing to come back to.

Pre-staging and mobilization of rescue and relief can only do so much. It was huge, slow, and powerful.

Catastrophic, indeed.

[malaise]

105. Sadly many will be retirees who chose warm climes and the poor

from all races. I cannot imagine what losing everything would mean at any age but it must be horrific for seniors.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

106. That always hits me hardest in war reports and "cleansings"

Old folks who just wanted to spend their days in peace, suddenly ripped out and tossed into chaos.

My wife and I re-watched Spike Lee's When the Levees Broke just days before Ian hit, so a lot of that is still fresh in my mind. People were scattered all over the country -- when rescue was finally mobilized -- and many didn't get back.

I'm glad the worst of this thing missed you!

[malaise]

109. That Spike Lee documentary was heart-brreaking

And yes we only got a few days of rain long before Ian strengthened and became a monster

[Hortensis]

126. Yes, but most of the displaced can take of themselves. nt

[spanone]

107. Day 3 post Ian: Almost no reports of deaths.

[BlackSkimmer]

108. Thank you.

The most I've seen guesstimated are around 40. And that is not at all confirmed. Far from "hundreds".

Smh.

[malaise]

111. Even M$NBComcast is now cutting off

BKDeathSentence’s pressers - they know BS when they see it

[Brenda]

112. Hurricane Ian Death Toll at 56 in Florida

will likely climb higher.

Not good news since the number is rising so quickly. There's a lot of debris to go through.

Sorry you have so many attacks thrown your way malaise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/10/01/hurricane-ian-death-toll-at-56-in-florida-will-likely-climb-higher/?sh=5bb835c33119

[malaise]

113. Water on a duck's back sis

[Brenda]

115. Good!

[Treefrog]

120. So you're actually saying you don't care what the truth is?

Are you actually hoping for a higher death count?

I just won't type what I am thinking now. But, holy cow, something very wrong here.

[malaise]

122. LOL you know it makes no sense arguing with someone who

thinks projecting about the Slobfather being indicted on the first day of the Fall can be compared with reading storm projections from experts.
Have a good life.

[Treefrog]

124. You're repeating yourself.

Shall I link to your numerous other prognostications?

Trump resigning, yes you gave a date.

Trump quitting before both elections, yes you gave a date.

Shall I continue?

There are many more, including hurricane predictions.

[Hortensis]

127. Regarding the "displaced people," fortunately it's not nearly as bad

as that term might suggest. This is America, not Yemen, after all.

Many of those displaced are still in anywhere from sustainable to very good financial condition. Many others are at least working and able to support themselves, and have family and friends to fall back on -- generally functional people who not only can take care of themselves but already are. The housing shortage is going to be a problem for some for a while, and I imagine motels down there are pretty full up right now, but we're not going to need IDP camps.

It's worth noting that a bunch of those washed-away homes were rentals, their ex-occupants choosing not to own for obvious reasons. Finding somewhere else they like will be their biggest problem.

Because property by the water has become very expensive and economically risky, a fair number of those who've lost property are affluent and can afford the risks. Many are snowbirds and watched on TV from their main homes. And, regardless, some will be able if they choose to haul out their virtual checkbooks and insurance policies and start creating something to come back to. Where replacement is allowed.

Similarly, many of the people who chose to live in those MH parks and lost units they owned can afford to have another hauled on. Again where replacement is allowed. Others will move elsewhere, lots of MH parks in FL. But there's about to be a shortage of used MHs.

Many, retirees especially, bought modest homes they have the means to replace, even if it's a real financial hit, in FL or wherever they choose to go.

Some have taken losses they can't afford and lost homes they can't replace. But those in their working years with incomes will go find something to rent somewhere. Finding themselves and the kids in a motel room may be a shock, but they're able to take care of themselves. Some will have insurance to pay for the motel for a while. We have programs to help ease things for them, of course, and homeowners' programs for those who save up to someday buy again.

Subtract all those who are able to take a hit and keep on tooting, and that leaves a relative minority of "internally displaced persons" who won't be able to and need help. Some of those will solve the problem of their displacement, though, by going to live with family or friends.

That leaves those displaced who will be homeless without help from us, via government and charitable NGOs. There won't be huge numbers of those, though. Most will also already have been on SS, SSI, Medicaid, etc., and that will continue as federal, state, county, municipal and private agencies work to get them into new places.

[malaise]

132. Thanks for this

Now the levees are failing - what a mess
This is Katrina on steroids

[Hortensis]

135. Oh, hope not. We used to visit in the Myakka River area

fairly often; the state park's beautiful.

[ZonkerHarris]

128. Wash Post says 23 so far. If you have a link to the info on your post please share

[Treefrog]

139. There is no link.

Nor will there be.

[Skittles]

133. urging everyone who can to donate to the relief effort

always put politics aside when people are in crisis

I donated to the Cajun Navy, they impress me.....

[ornotna]

136. Thankfully we're still here

An oak tree fell on the corner of my house. Main trunk just missed but a large branch crunched a little of the roof, facia and soffit. All on the eaves so no water inside.

Still no power or internet and cell service is spotty. SW Florida got hammered. I’ve never seen so many trees blown over before.

We had it easy compared with many others.

Hope my fellow Floridian are all okay.

[malaise]

138. So glad you and yours are OK

Glad that tree missed you

[ornotna]

141. Thanks malaise

We’re all okay.

[WarGamer]

137. this was sooo bad... it reminded me more of the Japanese Tsunami than a Hurricane.

[malaise]

140. Yes

Watch this
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217214194

[XanaDUer2]

143. 47 count. So sad. Hope it doesn't rise

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142976418

[bigtree]

145. The Florida Medical Examiners Commission confirmed 73 deaths as of Saturday afternoon

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-death-toll-from-ian-climbs-to-54-as-rescue-efforts-continue/2872879/

...still wondering why so many people tried to whipsaw malaise for making an evident observation.

[EX500rider]

150. 73 and "hundred's" are not the same thing. Time will tell. nt

[Kingofalldems]

151. Right wing sympathizers.

At least a few anyway.

[XanaDUer2]

144. 78. Witt reports 12 noon nt

[malaise]

146. The demolition crews are now going through debris

looking for life or bodies - this is horrific

[XanaDUer2]

147. I pray no more

Horrifying. Worry about homeless.

[Brenda]

148. Yes, it is now a search and recovery process

There is just sooooo much debris to be cleared. I hope they don't find a lot of bodies but they undoubtedly will find some and sadly pets, birds and other wild animals, too.

Amazing how some DUers are still trying to low ball it. Why would anyone do that? And expecting you to post a link for your thoughts. Do they want a brain scan?

Geeze.

[malaise]

149. I'd love to be wrong but we were warned on Day One

Charlie Crist is on M$NBComcast now

[bigtree]

152. there are scores of homeless migrants that may not be accounted for in house to house searches

...some remains found in mangroves earlier today.

[malaise]

153. Too sad

If Ian hit us at 155mph with 15 ft surge our entire south coast would have been destroyed and thousands of solks would be dead. - and the sad truth is that one day this will happen.

[mwb970]

154. What do the evangelical "Christians" say about this?

Have they announced why God is punishing Florida? Could it have anything to do with the Governor's cruel stunt?

[Brenda]

155. They got that covered.

They're already saying the Deep State used weather control to move the hurricane directly into Florida, and not just Florida, but the conservative areas of Florida.

Lauren Witzke, the Republican Party’s 2020 Senate nominee for Delaware, agreed that Ian “could be a weather-manipulated hurricane” before noting that the storm became a Cat-5 hurricane “overnight” and “does seem to be hitting the conservative areas of” Florida.

But your point is spot on. These religious nutjobs are the worst hypocrites ever.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

156. malaise ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217216914

It's almost as if you've seen a hurricane or two.

[mcar]

157. People on this OP were actually taking

the early death tolls as complete.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

158. We need to brace for some bad reports. Survivors will need a lot of help for quite a while.

That monster was wide, strong and slow.

[mcar]

160. Yes. I'm guessing there will be many deaths

post Ian, caused by trauma and lack of medical care.

[Brenda]

164. Trauma after hurricane...

My grandfather died before I was born clearing the trees that trapped his family on their property after Hurricane Hazel downed them. He had a heart attack in the heat and effort, then another at the hospital that took him at 55.

He was a tenant farmer and had to do the work himself. There are many folks in Florida now just like him, in that they can't sit back in a hotel or their first home and wait for things to happen. They're out there trying to work to fix their homes or businesses or property and some will die.

Sad fucking fact.

[mcar]

166. That's so sad

[Brenda]

170. Yes it is.

Hurricanes have changed family lives and history forever.

But now they are so much larger and more destructive combined with people moving into the worst possible places ever - barrier islands and direct coastline.

Wish I had a chance to talk to either of my grand fathers. The other one I saw (as a 5 year old) in a hospital bed after a stroke just before he died.

[malaise]

172. How sad

and yes there are way more folks like your grandpa suffering post Ian. The millionaires and billionaires are fine.

[malaise]

161. That is not what frightens me

President Biden warned everyone on day one - substantial loss of life and possibly the most deaths from a Florida hurricane.
Rest assured that he had the most accurate information on the planet.

He told everyone ro prepare for the worst.

[malaise]

159. Or three

Biden would never have said what he said if he didn’t already know this was a catastrophe

And we’d we’d better remember the season isn’t over
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#91L

[mcar]

167. Lordy

[sky_masterson]

162. 100 year storms are now almost yearly

but climate change is a hoax and stuff(Sarcasm)
Deaths like this are going to happen more and more sadly.

[malaise]

163. This one was a 500 year hurricane

Slow, strong and full of rain and it was huge

[sky_masterson]

165. So about every 5 years then

I was in florida on vacation during Charley. I thought that one was bad. I was on one of the last planes to leave and it was a bumpy take off but the pilot (A woman) got us out safely. These Hurricanes make me happy that I live in Kansas

[malaise]

168. We don:t know with climate change

That’s the problem