Putin wants new 'grand bargain' with the West, says Turkish official

[ClearSky24]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-wants-grand-bargain-west-160100422.html

According to Kalin, it looks inevitable that Russia’s war in Ukraine will continue for some time, and the question is how much damage will have occurred before negotiations resume.

"Our understanding is that Mr. Putin wants to have a new grand bargain, a new deal with the West," the spokesperson said.

"It’s partly about Ukraine, no doubt. But the larger issue is really a new deal between Russia and the Western world."

Kalin noted that Moscow feels that the agreements made at the end of the Cold War, under Presidents Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, no longer reflect the Russia of today.

"There is a new Russia, there is a new world, there is a new reality, and they want to have a new bargain," he said, adding that as a result, the entire global liberal order is facing a big test.

[RandySF]

1. Fuck that.

Russia needs to send him out the way Italy did Mussolini.

[2naSalit]

9. +1

[Justice matters.]

13. With a one-way ticket to The Hague. eom

[SouthernDem4ever]

15. +2

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. I think he meant hung by his heels

[Justice matters.]

17. Too bad 'we' civilized nations, don't do that any longer.

Looks like we don't do The Hague thingie too often either (well, in putler's case, it's urgent).

[DFW]

24. From the sound of his pronouncements

It sounds to me like Putin is getting more and more desperate in looking for a way to avoid just that.

Like our Republicans, he is being propped up by money--large amounts of it, provided in large part by his position as head of government. Once the owners of that money see their financial position in dire peril, they will look to eliminate and replace what is making them nervous. The bargain is: he keeps them in place, and they keep him in place. Things get hairy fast in that world when one side of the bargain seems wobbly. On one side, those who can't fly have one way trips to the cemetery via an 8th story window. On the other, Putin may suddenly end up "spending more time with his family," more specifically, the ones that lived in the 18th century.

[Dirty Socialist]

2. Turn yourself in to The Hague, Pootie

Then we’ll talk

[2naSalit]

10. +1

[TreasonousBastard]

3. So, it turns out that Putin is not just a murderer, but an asshole...

Back when Gorby and Yeltsin were around, the competition was US, Japan, and the EU. Now we have S Korea, India, and China as players, Especially China.

Yelsin is totally out of his element in this new world order, and the emergence of South America and Africa from military rule doesn't help them one bit while China is tryimg to steal what they can ftom us amd Japan.

So what's Russia got to offer besides a useless Army, old nuclear tech and leaky oil wells?

[2naSalit]

11. Land is about it.

[Irish_Dem]

21. So far his nuclear threats have worked quit well. The West is terrified of Putin.

And they are going to let him destroy Ukraine it looks like.

[Midnight Writer]

39. Exactly. "What's Russia got to offer"?

He wants a "Trump" deal where he gets everything and pays nothing.

I wish the best for the Russian people, but the first thing they need to do is to get rid of their war-mongering, aggressive, tyrannical leaders.

[Xipe Totec]

4. The Black Knight wants to call it a draw. nt

[PurgedVoter]

5. Of course he does but dealing with him is like dealing with TFG

You cannot trust any deal Putin would make. When Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons, the agreement he made was that he would never attack. Then he attacked Crimea. Now he is attacking Ukraine. Putin will not keep a deal. He will not pay his debts. Whatever he touches will turn to crap and he will not increase security for anyone. Not even himself.

Putin has burned his reputation by being Putin. No one sane will trust him. Russia will have to get rid of him if they want to be able to start healing or make any real connections with the rest of the world.

Putin can only cause more harm at this point. To himself, Russia, Ukraine and the world.

[Duppers]

8. ✔️✔️✔️

[Ligyron]

22. Putler broke the deal when he attacked Crimea.

SO the Ukraine should get it's nukes back from somewhere or make it very convincingly appear they have.

Doubt Putler will be so quick to detonate a tactical nuke knowing Russia would undoubtedly receive the same. Yup we're back to MAD but that worked great for many years.

[PortTack]

29. The Budapest Memorandum 1994. Yes, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons

The caveat was that they would not attack with nuclear weapons…here in lies the difference.

[StormKing]

6. New Russia can kiss our butts

No deal. Putin goes to the Hague. Any "deal" with the Russian Federation permanently splits it apart and takes ALL of its nukes away.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Putin's new grand illusion

He had the grandest of bargains and he blew it. The west invested billions in Russia, exported its leading brands and know-how in a broad range of industries, green lighting corruption and offering only the feeblest of resistance to Russian attempts to undermine liberal democracy globally. All for the right to make a buck, keep energy supplies flowing and geopolitical stability.

In return, Russia was expected to, what, not invade entire nations? Certainly the occasional territorial nibble was ok, eliciting nothing more than pesky sanctions. The one thing Putin could be forgiven for is thinking we were too weak of mind to do anything about Ukraine. Turns out the west, with an underestimated Democrat in the White House leading the way, had its limits. Whatever happens in the war it will never re-engage with Russia economically on anything close to pre-Ukraine levels as long as Putin is in power. Russia under Putin is permanently fucked. It makes nothing. It is economically doomed without us.

There is no living with him, case closed. The only bargaining here is Putin reaching step #3 between anger and depression.

[2naSalit]

12. Well...

The rest of the world wants a divorce, vladdy, 'bout the only kind of deal you/ll get.

[TheBlackAdder]

14. There is a New Russia, one that not only lost most of its conventional military, but is downgrading.

[eShirl]

18. Here's a deal: give up the war and go home.

[augyboston]

19. Sure, just like Britain rewarding Hitler...

History is a wonderful teacher if we just listen to her.

NFW, should Pukin' be rewarded in any way for this unnecessary maniacal act of imperialism. This needs to be pushed until all Russian forces are out of every last square inch of Ukraine (including Crimea) and the people of Russia rise up and punish Pukin' and all his cronies.

[Irish_Dem]

20. Putin wants control over Europe, and world superpower status.

His nuclear threats may get him what he wants.

[hunter]

25. An eighth grade bully can bring a gun to school...

... but that doesn't make him powerful.

[Irish_Dem]

28. So far Putin is getting what he wants.

He is destroying Ukraine.

And the world is terrified of Putin.

[PortTack]

30. Agree...and his continued attacks while losing spectacularly on the battlefield only amplify his

Weaknesses

[tanyev]

23. Of course he does. Extortionists want all kinds of things.

[GoCubsGo]

26. He's trying to avoid the next round of sanctions.

Which, after the current attack, are inevitable. His country is already on the brink, and he knows more economic pain will push him even closer to disaster, if not right over the edge. He's a flailing cornered rat, just like Trump. The only question is whether or not his toadies continue to stick with him.

[DFW]

27. I have such a deal for you! It's a grand bargain!

In essence, it goes like this: "I get what I want, you do what I want, and everybody's happy. Whaddya say?"

Yep, that sounds pretty grand alright. It sounds like a Russian version of the "Contract With America" put forward by Gingrich in 1994. "We get to dictate everything, and you are happy with it. Договорились? (Do we have a deal)?"

Putin wants territorial, trade and political concessions from the west, and in return, he offers to be content with some of what he got, and will be back to negotiate the rest. Such a deal!

Such proposals are usually made expecting a counter-offer. Here's mine:

Putin leaves office, severs all connections with government, withdraws from all occupied Ukrainian land, including the Crimean Peninsula, and lets Russia attempt to have true civilian rule. To show his good faith, he donates a meager portion of his secret personal fortune, say $100 billion, to Ukrainian reconstruction. In return, the Ukrainians agree to be part of a customs-free trade zone with Russia that promotes trade and economic activity. Instead of a zone of deadly peril, the border area between the two countries becomes a hotbed of commercial trading activity, with the former secret police eliminating mafia bosses instead of political dissidents. Like today's border between France and Germany, two generations from now, the people who live there will wonder WTF fighting a war between the two was ever for in the first place.

Somehow, I don't think VVP will go for it. Oh, well, it's just a suggestion.

[Emrys]

31. Putin's in danger of his "grand bargain" with the outliers of the Russian Federation collapsing.

He can wish all he wants.

[Happy Hoosier]

32. Outside its nukes...

Russia has no claim to being a world pole. It has a third rate economy and doesn’t even have a truly credible conventional military force. It just has nukes. That’s it.

[Wounded Bear]

33. Of course he does. He's getting shown up on the international stage...

[gulliver]

34. Interesting with Putin's bargaining position being weakened by Biden

It seems to me we might be in a position of strength, having shown through the strength of Biden, Ukraine, and NATO that Putin can't just get what he wants on-the-cheap by hacking the populist politics of the West. Trump and Fox News let Putin down.

Sure, Putin is a gangster. So is MBS in Saudi Arabia. The gas station business is on its way out. Maybe there's a deal. I don't know what the deal would be or how it would be verified.

[Hekate]

35. The West will put Neville Chamberlain right on it!

[Sogo]

36. Unfortunately for Putin, we've always had the policy

that we don't negotiate with terrorists.

[Hortensis]

37. Great posts. Also, Putin was pursuing a far, far better "grand bargain"

with tRump, and it, or an even better version of it, could solve all the post-2020 problems he created that threaten to destroy him and his ambitions. He needs tRump to be reelected, and 2024 would be, for instance, a mere 2-year semi-detente with Ukraine away.

NATO! Our election of Biden, coupled with Putin's invasion of Ukraine, has caused dreadful reverses in Putin's grand plan to destroy NATO and restore hegemony over the Soviet Union nations; But a President tRump could still pull the United States out of NATO. Putin could still achieve complete victory in Ukraine and force capitulation of other states no longer protected by the remains of NATO, and whatever other problems he's been able to maximize in Europe and America.

Of course he could once again enable tRump to prove he was the greatest deal maker of all by cancelling sanctions, and also imagine he was in control by refusing to. He and tRump could still form the "joint cyber agreements" that mere suggestion of once made us shudder. And of course Putin could continue the maneuvers that election of Biden interrupted for the transfer of U.S. power and relationships in various regions of the world to Russia. Including right here.

All must still seem within reach, and more, by using tRump to block and/or destroy the U.S.'s ability to stop him. Or other means, failing that. America's Democrats are Putin's biggest obstacle. No one must be more aware than him.

[Javaman]

38. Fine by me. let's start with kicking them out of the UN. nt

[LetMyPeopleVote]

40. Moscow seeks nothing less than Ukraine's unconditional capitulation.

Russian media is claiming that Putin is taking a hard line. Putin needs an exit ramp and so these negotiations will be interesting

Link to tweet

[Emrys]

42. We got Putin's exit ramp right here:

[Hekate]

41. KnR. Great thread.