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NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 11:13 AM Oct 2022

A Scary Future for America

I first read about this over a year ago. The right-wing “plan” to force a Constitutional Convention to change the US Constitution to reflect conservative values. Today in my email there was my daily The Guardian news update. This is probably the best written article about this “plot” I’ve seen. Everyone should read it and share it. This is how the minority will try to seize control. The article even quotes Christian fanatic Rick Santorum saying “We have the opportunity, as a result, to have a supermajority, even though we may not even be in an absolute majority when it comes to the people who agree with us.” . They currently control 30 of the 34 states required to do this. “WE THE PEOPLE” won’t exist, it’ll be the minority fascists controlling everything. If this happens America is over.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/19/steve-bannon-us-constitution-tea-party-republican-state-legislatures?utm_term=634fdfbc66c94ed9a7cd54480c59ec8f&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUS_email

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A Scary Future for America (Original Post) NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 OP
"....if you can keep it." yonder Oct 2022 #1
That would split the union Metaphorical Oct 2022 #2
I hope you're right NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #3
MAGA-TS (equal sign) MAGA Trump Supporters. nt TeamProg Oct 2022 #7
And your fellow nation to the north, Cascadia, plans to have amicable relations with Pacifica. Aristus Oct 2022 #35
More than three jmowreader Oct 2022 #8
I can also see a massive western block: Sky Jewels Oct 2022 #13
Why I said at least 3 Metaphorical Oct 2022 #34
United States of Canada and the Jesusland Confederacy Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #9
I vote YES NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #22
There was a video game loosely based on this... keep_left Oct 2022 #36
I had that game NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #38
Our democracy will survive. fightforfreedom Oct 2022 #4
I believe it will, too. pandr32 Oct 2022 #5
The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #10
Are you SURE about that? Read this: TeamProg Oct 2022 #23
I believe they'll crash the economy NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #25
Much of it is intent. I have no intention of ever living under a fascist regime. Magoo48 Oct 2022 #27
If Biden doesn't expand the SCOTUS this could our reality. n/t TeamProg Oct 2022 #6
Expanding the Supreme Court won't change anything (in this case). Shipwack Oct 2022 #12
States like Calif., might be able to sue other states for lessening equal rights, which are TeamProg Oct 2022 #21
Perhaps... NT Shipwack Oct 2022 #31
No Zeitghost Oct 2022 #37
Ban gay rights NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Oct 2022 #16
One of the best articles I've read in awhile. Lonestarblue Oct 2022 #11
4 state focus is a good idea. And a big job so step it up before it's too late to try. appalachiablue Oct 2022 #20
Every Democratic candidate needs to pound on Old Crank Oct 2022 #14
++ appalachiablue Oct 2022 #18
It still takes 38 states to amend the Constitution. rsdsharp Oct 2022 #15
34 states have already signed on to an Article V Convention. All MAGA oligarchs have to do is ancianita Oct 2022 #17
They've been trying for years to get to 34 to call a convention. rsdsharp Oct 2022 #19
That's what scares me NowISeetheLight Oct 2022 #26
My mistake. Yes, ancianita Oct 2022 #28
19 is 15 short of 34. Not five. rsdsharp Oct 2022 #29
OOF. Man, I must be tired. Thanks. ancianita Oct 2022 #30
not enough support for now.... WarGamer Oct 2022 #24
Bookmarking for later liberalla Oct 2022 #32
We have to get there first somehow vercetti2021 Oct 2022 #33

Metaphorical

(1,604 posts)
2. That would split the union
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 11:50 AM
Oct 2022

Should we get to a constitutional convention, the US will become at least three countries, which I believe is the real objective of the far right and its oligarchs. They know that the West Coast would not be a party to a country built around a MAGA banner, nor would the Inland Sea area. So long as these two blocs exist as part of the US, the MAGAcracy will be in the minority. Secession by itself is very risky. Instead, they want a political justification to secede without calling it that.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
3. I hope you're right
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 12:12 PM
Oct 2022

Living in CA now I hope you’re right. I’d love to see the new nation of Pacifica form on the coast. I’d rather be a citizen here than in Christianistan (what I call the right wing vision).

The scary thing is a constitutional convention is one state one vote. Like that Guardian article said, Wyoming with 500k residents would have the same voting power as California with 80m people. So much for one person one vote. This is the real reason for all the gerrymandering over the years. They know the public would never support it so they’re doing an end-around. Fascism and totalitarianism.

Civil War II could actually happen. But it wouldn’t be the right wing Maga-ts rioting, it would be the majority.

jmowreader

(50,566 posts)
8. More than three
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:10 PM
Oct 2022

The West Coast and Hawaii - maybe also Alaska - would be the first.

The Northeast would be number two. Let's say Delaware is the southern border of that state.

The states of the Confederacy would be number three. I don't think they'd reestablish chattel slavery.

The Great Lakes area would be number four.

The American Redoubt area - Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas - would be the fifth.

Texas would become its own country.

Number seven would be everywhere else.

So, you'd have three liberal nations, three conservative ones, and the American Redoubt would become a fascist theocracy.

Sky Jewels

(7,153 posts)
13. I can also see a massive western block:
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:26 PM
Oct 2022

HI, WA, OR, CA, NV, AZ, NM, CO. (Maybe AK if it pulls its head out of its ass for good.) Those are all blue states, except for purple AZ, but it would be stupid not to join the new country.

Metaphorical

(1,604 posts)
34. Why I said at least 3
Fri Oct 21, 2022, 05:25 PM
Oct 2022

I think it'll break down roughly by watershed and trading blocs (megaregions), and not necessarily even follow existing borders.

This is the megaregion map for the US, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalopolis#North_America), showing regions where there's a strong interconnection of communication, trade, and culture.



You'd see alliances, of course. The Cascadian, NoCal, and SoCal regions are generally natural allies - all Pacific coastal states with strong Hispanic and Asian ties and a shared history of colonization. The Acela corridor in the Northeast echoes the original Northern Colonial states in the US. The Inland Sea (Great Lakes) reaches into the Windsor/Montreal/Toronto corridor in Canada. The Florida peninsula is its own country - it always has been. The Piedmont area is the Heart of Dixie. Some places, like Pennsylvania or Texas, have two such corridors and almost certainly would be split down the middle.

Outside of these, you'd get the aforementioned American Redoubt - places where any megaregions' influence wanes significantly. A big part of the urban/rural divide in American politics is that historical political divisions were driven by colonization factors that had little to do with population or geography. Most of the Rockies are only marginally habitable, for instance, which is how Wyoming, with a population of 500,000, has far more political clout than the city of Seattle (2 million people), much less of Cascadia (17 million).

This is what I don't think most hard-core MAGA understand. They have political clout only due to a historical accident. If North America were to realign along megaregions (which is, I believe, the likely consequence of a civil war), their political clout would disappear entirely.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
22. I vote YES
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:15 PM
Oct 2022

I totally would support something like this. Growing up in Minnesota and having lived in South Carolina for several years (for work) but retiring there in California I think this would be the eventual outcome. Jesusland would be dead. No energy, no laws, religious totalitarianism, it's like Iran. I think after a few years of religious fanaticism even more people in Jesusland would come around. I can see an eventual Civil War III in Jesusland as the people there realize what the signed up for.

That plus the fact that 8 of the 10 top "taker" states are RED. 8 of the top 10 "giver" states are BLUE. The blue states support the red states financially. Cut off that gravy train to the likes of Kentucky and Mississippi and Alabama and we'll see how things go. Plus all the retirees in Florida suddenly having their Social Security and Medicare slashed, they'll all revolt too.

Add in the west coast being BLUE and all the substandard housing, 8th grade education, unwed mothers, drug problems, it's a slippery slope of their own making.

Jesusland has no future.

keep_left

(1,792 posts)
36. There was a video game loosely based on this...
Fri Oct 21, 2022, 05:58 PM
Oct 2022

...called Shattered Union (2005). As time goes by, it seems like a more plausible future than anyone would wish.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
25. I believe they'll crash the economy
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:20 PM
Oct 2022

They're going to tie the debt limit increase to entitlement reform. They'll try to force the Democrats to agree to cuts in Social Security and Medicare before agreeing to raise the debt limit. They'd rather see the US default on it's obligations first.

Considering they controlled the Congress and the White House when Trump was in and DIDN'T DO THIS shows they're more intent on trying to screw Democrats and make political points than they are in serving America. They're traitors IMO.

Magoo48

(4,721 posts)
27. Much of it is intent. I have no intention of ever living under a fascist regime.
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:29 PM
Oct 2022

Whether it becomes easier or more difficult to accomplish that here in CA, well, time will tell.
If Gilead does arrive, I’ll either be gone, fighting it, or dead. What else is there?

Shipwack

(2,172 posts)
12. Expanding the Supreme Court won't change anything (in this case).
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:21 PM
Oct 2022

The SC has nothing to do with whether or not a constitutional convention can convene.

TeamProg

(6,285 posts)
21. States like Calif., might be able to sue other states for lessening equal rights, which are
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:13 PM
Oct 2022

federally protected, taking it to the SCOTUS.

No?

Zeitghost

(3,873 posts)
37. No
Fri Oct 21, 2022, 06:18 PM
Oct 2022

If a constitutional convention is called (and for the record I don't believe there is much, if any chance that happens) then everything is fair game and anything that can garner 3/4 of the states support can be passed.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
39. Ban gay rights
Fri Oct 21, 2022, 08:10 PM
Oct 2022

If they succeed in making this a “Christian Nation” they can easily ban LGBT rights and marriage equality in their new version of the Constitution. Equal rights will disappear.

Response to TeamProg (Reply #6)

Lonestarblue

(10,095 posts)
11. One of the best articles I've read in awhile.
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:16 PM
Oct 2022

In 2010 Karl Rove crafted a plan to give a minority Republican Party full and permanent control of the federal government. Winning state elections and then gerrymandering each state to ensure permanent Republican power was their goal and they have now succeeded in 30 states. Around the same time, Democrats abandoned the 50-state strategy and essentially handed several states to Republicans.

The Democratic Party leadership needs to stop focusing just on a narrow slice of states needed to win the Electoral College. As a start, we need to identify maybe four states that are candidates for turning purple and then blue and organize around winning state elections there. Taking just four states from Republicans would make a huge difference in their ability to call a Constitutional Convention and totally wreck the country.

Old Crank

(3,638 posts)
14. Every Democratic candidate needs to pound on
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:30 PM
Oct 2022

the Social Security issue. ThE Medicare issue, and women's rights.
Demand that the GOP show a plan.

ancianita

(36,146 posts)
17. 34 states have already signed on to an Article V Convention. All MAGA oligarchs have to do is
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:44 PM
Oct 2022

literally buy the statehouses of four more.

rsdsharp

(9,208 posts)
19. They've been trying for years to get to 34 to call a convention.
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 01:52 PM
Oct 2022

But it will take a mere snap of the fingers to get 8 more states than they have now to ratify whatever bullshit a convention (if it’s ever called) comes up with?

Right now this is a pie-in-the-sky fever dream of the far right that the average person has never even heard of. It will be even more difficult to get the votes when the results of any convention are actually made public, and people are aware of what might happen.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
26. That's what scares me
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:29 PM
Oct 2022

What you say about "the average person". People aren't educated. They don't see the danger. People are happy to listen to their dog-whistle quotes by Trump blaming "immigrants" for all their problems. They don't realize the reason they haven't achieved in their lives isn't because of some immigrant Democrat plot, it's because of individual choices and fate. It's easier to blame "those people" like minorities than it is to look in a mirror. Telling people they are "trying to take what is yours" because "they're committing the crimes" is easier than telling people "you didn't finish school and had kids too early and this and that and THAT is why you're struggling now". It's funny the Republicans have always been the ones always screaming about "personal responsibility", yet they're the ones now ignoring that as they rile up their base blaming the boogeyman for their lot in life.

ancianita

(36,146 posts)
28. My mistake. Yes,
Wed Oct 19, 2022, 02:36 PM
Oct 2022

Under Article V of the Constitution, two-thirds of the nation's 50 states, 34, would have to pass resolutions in support of a Convention of States in order for one to be convened. As of July 2022, Business Insider reports, 19 state legislatures have done so.

So there have to be 5 more.

https://conventionofstates.com/states-that-have-passed-the-convention-of-states-article-v-application

States that have passed the Convention of States application (19):


1. Georgia March 6, 2014

2. Alaska April 19, 2014

3. Florida April 21, 2014

4. Alabama May 22, 2015

5. Tennessee February 4, 2016

6. Indiana February 29, 2016

7. Oklahoma April 25, 2016

8. Louisiana May 25, 2016

9. Arizona March 13, 2017

10. North Dakota March 24, 2017

11. Texas May 4, 2017

12. Missouri May 12, 2017

13. Arkansas February 14, 2019

14. Utah March 5, 2019

15. Mississippi March 27, 2019

16. Wisconsin January 25, 2022

17. Nebraska January 28, 2022

18. West Virginia March 4, 2022

19. South Carolina March 29, 2022


States where the Convention of States Application has passed in one chamber but not the other (all time):

New Mexico, Iowa, South Dakota, Virginia, North Carolina, New Hampshire

States considering the Convention of States Resolution in 2022:

Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Wyoming

vercetti2021

(10,156 posts)
33. We have to get there first somehow
Thu Oct 20, 2022, 01:38 AM
Oct 2022

If we can. We can fix all the outdated horseshit and finally be a fucking democracy not owned by the rich.

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