Penn State Hosted The Proud Boys Despite Outcry. Students Were Attacked.

[Jilly_in_VA]

A Pennsylvania State University event featuring Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes was canceled Monday night after McInnes’ supporters attacked students and members of the media.

In the hours leading up to the event — titled “Stand Back & Stand By” and featuring the bigoted gang leader and far-right troll Alex Stein — the Proud Boys and their allies attacked a throng of protesting students and journalists gathered outside the venue. One person, described as a member of the Proud Boys, pepper-sprayed the crowd. Another video shows a Proud Boy fist-fighting with a crowd of protesters.

For weeks, students had been petitioning university administration to cancel the event due to safety concerns. McInnes has a documented history of bringing members of his violent street gang to speaking engagements, where they attack students and protesters.

But Penn State administrators allowed the event to continue on the grounds of constitutionally protected speech. Student Affairs Vice President Damon Sims told HuffPost earlier this month that the administration had weighed student safety against campus speech concerns.

“Our commitment to both freedom of expression and the welfare of our community are equally strong, despite the obvious challenges that brings,” he said at the time.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/penn-state-proud-boys-gavin-mcinnes_n_6357e1d2e4b051268c58e50b

Sims obviously doesn't understand that it's not a good idea to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater--or allow terrorist gangs on your campus.

[FSogol]

1. Um, it looks like "welfare of our community" was not equally strong.

Student Affairs Vice President Damon Sims and whoever else invited a violent gang to their University should resign.

[Hortensis]

16. :) I think they performed a valuable public service by showing

other venues that DVEs are called that because they're given to violent extremism AND that violence is a form of free speech.

As for the Proud Boys themselves, "Thank you for your service" too.

[ShazzieB]

48. Good point.

If other potential venues learn from this, it will at least not have been for naught.

Trying to find a silver lining, although it looks pretty tarnished from where I sit.

[Hortensis]

50. :) Think of it as using Jujitsu to let our lemons make lemonade

for us. The Proud Boys got their own event cancelled for concern that they'd attend.

[Cosmocat]

70. They didn't invite them

A student group did, and unfortunately they have the right to do so and the admin could not over rule it.

[Gore1FL]

2. Universities should be able to know the difference between expression and platform.

They are free to express themselves, but no one has to give them space to do it.

[chowder66]

9. +1

[housecat]

64. Exactyl

[NoMoreRepugs]

3. Even Universities have some dumbos.

[TheBlackAdder]

29. I guess Penn State still doesn't protect its students, even after the Sandusky incident.

[housecat]

65. Just some? I taught in one for 30 years, and even though much of the stupidity was political,

trust me-- all Universities have their share of knuckleheads from students to boards of trustees

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Like using the Hells Angels as security at Altamont.

Fucking chin stroking shit the pants academics at that place have no goddamn common sense.

[SergeStorms]

27. The Stones chose them.

Jagger said they had no idea how violent and lawless they could be or they never would have hired them.

I guess he expected "peace and love" to ooze from everyone's pores in California. The Angels don't do peace and love. 👹

[Hieronymus Phact]

45. They still have a contract on his life -nt

[spanone]

5. Next Month, a constitutionally protected speech by the KKK

[sir pball]

12. Yes, KKK speeches and rallies are more often protected than not.

And yes, they're patently offensive to any sensible person - but the only way to make (ostensibly) peaceful gatherings illegal based on the words spoken at those gatherings would involve a gutting of the First Amendment…if that's a battle you want to pick, y'all have fun with that.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1191/ku-klux-klan

[stopdiggin]

39. so true. Unfortunately, many

ARE quite ready and willing ...
Dictators, killings, jailings and disappearances around the world - apparently not being enough of an illustration ...

[Efilroft Sul]

6. The PSU president would probably blame the Jews for standing up to the Nazis in 1933.

[Freddie]

7. Another wise decision by the PSU administration

My son was living on campus during the Sandusky scandal. The current crop should be ousted the same way.

[debm55]

31. I went to PSU in the mid 70s. This pisses me off. Now, I don't feel so bad when I throw away the

crap they send asking for donations.

[Freddie]

42. I throw my son's away for him

They send stuff here (not his house) and he doesn’t want them to have his address. I gave them enough $$ already.

[chowder66]

8. Cool so I guess I'll ask to speak there about how I don't like Blue cheese except in my Mom's

spinach dish.

[Lonestarblue]

10. Why is hate speech Constitutionally protected?

We allow a lot of destructive behavior and speech in the name of the First Amendment. Indoubt that’s what the Founders had in mind.

[RobinA]

14. Because It's Speech?

One person's hate speech is another person's free speech. Better too much speech than too little. One can simply not attend.

[Beartracks]

17. But, also, one can simply not HOST the event in the first place.

The university would have been well within its rights -- and the bounds of common sense -- to have not invited/hosted the group to begin with.

=============

[stopdiggin]

28. they certainly would have been within their rights

But then the next question barreling down the tracks - do you allow any sort of speaking engagement? If a 'student group' invites AOC to be a speaker - isn't that almost certainly going to draw public (and private) protest? Week following Roger Stone or Steve Bannon? Justice Alito? Who gets the imprimatur of approval - and who doesn't?

You can point to violence as the line to be drawn in red (and most people would heartily agree) - but I'd be awfully surprised if there weren't prior discussion and assurances offered specifically in advance of this event.

There really aren't any simple answers in the case of free speech. And, like I said - do we then pivot to 'no speech' on campus? I don't mind that PennSt ended up with some egg on their face here - perhaps naive in listening to assurances of peaceful assembly. But I also think it's wise to remember that the people who really deserve opprobrium - are the goons that are brawling in the street.

[Beartracks]

60. Good points. Thank you.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

62. +100. nt

[ShazzieB]

51. Yes, absolutely.

The first amendment allows people to say awful things, but no one is required to provide them with a forum to do it in.

Being committed to "freedom of expression" is a worthy sounding goal, but it does NOT require anyone to roll out the red carpet for hate mongers.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

61. Ummm, because it is.

As it should be, start going down the road of attempting to outlaw hate speech and you've opened the door to the destruction of the 1A, just think if and when the repukes regain power, they would love to have a law like that, kiss DU goodbye, kiss pretty much all liberal media goodbye because the repukes will deem their message as hate speech.

Why some people can't see this is beyond me.

[Demsrule86]

67. Speech is protected from the government...not a Penn state...what she rapist and murderers

Should we allow rapists and murderers to run around Penn State and the administrators should all be fired for endangering students but inviting murderous thugs to the campus.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

68. News flash: Penn State is a state agency.

Tue Oct 25, 2022: Can Penn State cancel event featuring Proud Boys founder? ACLU PA, experts weigh in

Can Penn State cancel event featuring Proud Boys founder? ACLU PA, experts weigh in

BY JOSH MOYER
OCTOBER 23, 2022

Penn State has fielded criticism from around the country for hosting an event involving the Proud Boys founder, with multitudes questioning the university’s assertion that it cannot cancel Monday’s presentation without violating the U.S. Constitution. ... But the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania — and more than a half-dozen other First Amendment experts — say Penn State is almost certainly correct.

Because the university is largely public, and because a recognized student organization invited the speakers as all such organizations are permitted to do, it cannot make exceptions to its own rules because it finds the speakers’ rhetoric “hateful and discriminatory.” Penn State said as much last week, but that hasn’t stopped a 3,000-signature petition, online comments that have referred to PSU as “a terrorist organization” and overwhelming anger from many students and community members.

No expert or organization the CDT contacted agreed with the views of the Proud Boys. But, just as an accused white supremacist spoke on the campus of Indiana University, and “radical conservative” Ben Shapiro held an event at the University of Michigan, both Penn State and outside experts say the land-grant university is constitutionally obligated to follow suit.

“Penn State is a public university, so it is subject to the First Amendment,” ACLU PA Legal Director Vic Walczak said in a written statement. “Once (a recognized student organization from) the university has invited a speaker, cancellation because of disagreement with the speaker’s vewpoint or message raises First Amendment concerns, and could invite litigation and trigger liability.”

{snip}

[FakeNoose]

11. Some goofy group called "Uncensored America" sponsored this event

WTF Penn State? This group needs to be thrown off-campus immediately.

[regnaD kciN]

13. And, predictably, the PSU president is bothsidesing it...

…claiming that not only the PB are to blame, but also the protesters for giving them visibility.

[Ray Bruns]

23. Is that really happening?

[Efilroft Sul]

53. I have the PSU president's quote in this post.

"Tonight, Stein and McInnes will celebrate a victory for being canceled, when in actuality, they contributed to the very violence that compromised their ability to speak. Tonight, counter-protestors also will celebrate a victory that they forced the University to cancel this event, when in actuality, they have furthered the visibility of the very cause they oppose."

That's like blaming the kids who got molested by Jerry Sandusky for not wanting to put up with his shit.

[Whiskeytide]

59. Shining a light ...

… on Nazis and making them more visible was kind of the point of the protest, maybe?

[Beartracks]

15. Allowing hate speech at your institution is not the same thing as "free speech."

You're not OBLIGATED to host terrorist organizations at your school to show how "fair & balanced" you are.

And WTF, some Proud Boy, who was purportedly a GUEST of the university, actually pepper-sprayed the university's students? That's F*d up. What a dick.

==============

[I_UndergroundPanther]

18. There is abuse of free speech

And slander and lies should never be treated as free speech.Lies and slander deliberately said to inflict harm that needs to be thought about. And propaganda should there be limits? We all see the damage it causes to society.

[hadEnuf]

46. Well said!

+1000

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. There's a reason Canada has declared the PB's a terrorist organization...nt

[SoBlueInFL]

20. I suppose Penn would need to open their doors to a group of Nazis, too. You know, all for r/o

the sake of "fairness".

[DFW]

22. For the record, this was Penn State, not Penn

Penn (the University of Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, where I went, incidentally) would never allow these goons on campus. The percentage of Jewish Students at Penn would practically guarantee an all-out battle, with the right wing goons outnumbered by probably ten to one. At least when I was there, it seemed that way, anyway. In Philly in general, if you weren't Jewish, Irish, Italian or Black, you were considered as alien as ET. I sometimes felt like I had to show my passport when entering the city limits. Some smaller groups do flourish, though. It was in Philly that I met my first Assyrians, a people I had not heard about since my 5th grade ancient history class. I thought they had disappeared after Ashurbanipal 2000 years ago. Obviously, I was wrong.

Penn State, on the other hand, is out in that part of PA otherwise known as Alabama. Different surroundings altogether.

[SoBlueInFL]

33. Sorry for the typing error. I honestly thought I had typed "Penn State".

[RANDYWILDMAN]

21. Penn State kept Joe Pa around for years after Sandusky was found out

on campus committing crimes.

They covered for the old man who covered up some serious stuff


They also submarined Mike Mcqueary LIFE

[debm55]

32. That's true.

[maxrandb]

24. I hope Ohio State hangs 70 on them this Saturday

[JohnnyRingo]

25. I for one salute the university for promoting free speech.

Everyone in their hearts knows it's a good quality, even if one disagrees with the speech.

In this case, The Proud Boys were their own worst enemy. They were given a generous opportunity to get their message out, and they blew it. The PBs showed their violent nature and got dismissed on those grounds alone. Assholes.

[stopdiggin]

34. man, you're old school!

but when you're right, you're right.

------- ---- -------

Can we be for free speech - and simultaneously hoping that the Justice Department is keeping tabs (and building cases?)? ....

[mahatmakanejeeves]

35. Thanks. NT

[MarineCombatEngineer]

63. Thank you. nt

[Demsrule86]

69. I do not agree. A school should not promote an outlaw militia...it is a bad idea and students were

injured. That is not free speech. You can say what you want but it sure as hell does not mean you allow armed outlaw militia on a college campus.

[brooklynite]

71. So Governor Mastriano "outlaws" BLM and then.....

Add to which, in what way have the Proud Boys been outlawed?

[JohnnyRingo]

74. One man's outlaw is another man's folk hero.

The ACLU is one of my preferred charities, and they get involved with these cases all the time. They actually grimaced and went to bat for Nazis in Cleveland some time ago. Now that's dedication to the constitution.

[czarjak]

26. Okay, what dimension are we in now? Unreal doesn't even start to explain!

[redstatebluegirl]

30. This is being forced on a lot of state universities.

The right wing nuts are claiming their views are not allowed on campuses.

[stopdiggin]

36. great point

(And - often with the backing of boards, legislatures, regents, donors, alums ... )

[redstatebluegirl]

40. Yes sir!

[FelineOverlord]

37. Penn State students expressed themselves

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[twodogsbarking]

38. Campus Student Newspaper.

[link:https://www.collegian.psu.edu/news/campus/penn-state-president-neeli-bendapudi-releases-message-following-uncensored-america-event-cancellation/article_d8ef414c-542f-11ed-a41b-f72919b30b2c.html|

[hadEnuf]

43. NAZIS are always party poopers.

Didn't Penn State know this?

[Initech]

44. Stop giving these fucking morons a platform!

The Proud Boys can fuck off, TPUSA can fuck off, Hannity and Carlson can fuck off, Jordan Peterson can fuck off, Christian right megachurch pastors can fuck off. Hate has no place in the public school system.

[Ferrets are Cool]

47. "constitutionally protected speech" my ass

Fuck you, you bunch of god damned wimps. You gave in to terrorism.

[wolfie001]

49. Central pennsylvania is as Red as alabama

For the most part.

[debm55]

57. We call it Penntucky in PA.

[wolfie001]

66. Booh Yeah!!!

[Prairie_Seagull]

52. Sure you can speak here but we are going to need a

Last edited Wed Oct 26, 2022, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)

1,000,000.$+ cash bond against any violence or illegal activity. No chance they have it so...

[Meowmee]

54. No one is required to host nazis, kkk or any other hate groups on their campus

It says a lot about penn state and anyone else who does. As I was told years ago some violent fascists came to march somewhere in the UK maybe, people came out to shut them down and beat the crap out of them. They crawled back into the woodwork.

[yellowcanine]

55. VP Damon Sims needs to resign. The welfare of the community trumps

freedom of expression, particularly by outside groups with a history of violence.

[tenderfoot]

56. PSU defended Paterno, what else needs to be said about that AVERAGE University

eom

[JustAnotherGen]

72. Now the College

Is responsible for the injured students.

Don't invite the head of a domestic terrorist organization into your home and not expect it to suck the blood out of you.

[Emile]

73. Constitutionally protected speech for NAZI GERMANY maybe, but not in the USA!