This isn't going to be a popular opinion, but I think intl soccer is toxic.

[Mosby]

Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2022, 05:09 PM - Edit history (2)

I don't like or watch soccer, so I never could understand all the violence. There is nothing like that with American sports, basketball, football, baseball fans don't hit the streets to throw down with the opposing fans while the cops look on. There was just a street fight between whales and England fans before the actual world cup game no less. It didn't make sense to me, especially since I didn't know whales people don't like englanders. I thought they were all Brits, silly me.

What I realized while watching the riots in Paris, though, is that international soccer tourneys represent an extreme form of nationalism where the teams are a proxy for the country, and in Morocco's case, Pan Arabism and Islamism.

Nationalism is frowned upon especially overseas, and yet in Europe and S. America soccer is wildly popular, all based on hyper nationalism. Didn't the Brazillians, after loosing a "big" game, kidnap and lynch the team golie? Seems like an unhealthy activity IMO.

Tomorrow Morocco and France are playing in the world cup. I hope Paris survives.

Eta:

Morocco’s showdown with France carries complex political baggage

For a lot of people from the Middle East, Africa and the broader decolonized world, the Moroccan team is “fighting a symbolic war,” argued Monica Marks, a professor of Middle East politics at New York University’s campus in Abu Dhabi. It’s one that taps into “a lingering sense of insult,” she said, “a collective wound to their pride and history” that rankles to this day.

The mushrooming of support for Morocco has touched on various forms of “Global South” solidarity. There is the Pan-Arab jubilation that has followed the Moroccan team throughout the games in Qatar, underscored by the ubiquitous embrace of the Palestinian flag as an emblem of a broader sense of Arab togetherness and struggle. There is African pride for the continent’s pioneering trailblazers at the World Cup and Amazigh, or Berber, pride felt by those rooted in North Africa’s indigenous traditions and cultures. And there is also a groundswell of Muslim excitement for a squad that habitually kneels in prayer after a match.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/13/morocco-france-world-cup-history-politics-baggage/

Anyone see an article like this before the world series? Super bowl? No?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Lol what

Sports fans riot all the time when their teams win championships in the U.S. Not to mention the violence that institutions inflict on athletes, and athletes on each other and people close to them.

[Mosby]

9. Not really.

Not like with soccer.

[LakeArenal]

16. Hockey is very violent too.

The majority of soccer matches do not have violence.

[Bev54]

30. Hockey is not violent it is a physical sport but not violent nor usually are

the fans. As in any sport you have hooligans that sometimes create problems but it has nothing to do with the sport. Also soccer is not violent in anyway, just some of the fans worldwide.

[LakeArenal]

42. When physicality becomes punches and bloody ice, that's violent.

But like soccer most matches do not lead to that.

[Bev54]

49. You are seeing less and less of that in hockey as it is no longer acceptable.

[honest.abe]

44. Hockey fights are mostly bogus and rarely lead to actual injuries.

Most injuries in hockey happen from pucks or high sticking.

[LakeArenal]

45. Okay. Bogus or not it models unsportsmanlike behavior.

[honest.abe]

47. The point is it isnt technically "violent".

Its more strategic to get the crowd excited and change momentum.

[Dr. Strange]

12. Well...

Sports fans riot all the time when their teams win championships in the U.S.

yeah, sometimes, after winning a championship. But the World Cup championship hasn't even happened yet. So this does seem a little weird.

[Yoyoyo77]

22. Here in the states it's more on the college level that you see it.

I'm in PG county MD. I remember streets being closed down and lawn furniture being torched after a big UMD victory. Maybe not as often, but it does happen here.

[Deep State Witch]

25. Same Here

I can remember people having bonfires on Rt. 1 in College Park and throwing sofas onto the pyres. They burned so high that it melted the overhead wires.

[AleksS]

2. It's pretty universal in sports though...

The internet is chock full of (sometimes deadly) riots after college football games, basketball games, etc.

I didn't see golf riots, so maybe that sport is riot-free, but if there was one out there, I wouldn't be surprised.

[GoneOffShore]

4. There aren't golf riots, except in Scotland. But they are very, very quiet riots.

[AleksS]

5. Quiet Riot wasn't particularly quiet though...

https://www.quietriot.band/

[jcgoldie]

8. you beat me!

[ProfessorGAC]

26. That's Because...

...at golf riots they have people holding up those "Quiet Please" signs.
It wouldn't be a golf riot without them.

[GoneOffShore]

59. And I'm envisioning a sketch comedy piece about a golf riot.

Pimped out golf carts, guys in bright green trousers with ducks on them fighting other guys in bright red trousers with pheasants, pink and purple shirts, and because it's golf, they are hissing at each other.

[GoneOffShore]

3. Paris, Marseille, and any other city in France with a Moroccan population will be fine.

There are a small minority of people who take the opportunity to cause trouble after a match.

[sarisataka]

6. There is nothing like that with American sports, basketball, football, baseball

[Mosby]

10. Show me then. And not from 25 years ago.

Stuff like this:

Link to tweet

This is after they WON.

[sarisataka]

11. 15 Crazy Riot Celebration Videos

14 of the 15 are US or Canada
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2010677-15-crazy-riot-celebration-videos

[Effete Snob]

20. Ima guess you weren't on DU when the Eagles won the super bowl

[TheProle]

38. Here ya go

After being starved of success for decades when the Boston Red Sox won their first World Series after 86 years fans rioted after the winning game and the celebration parade. They had also rioted the week before after defeating the New York Yankees, which left one fan dead when police started firing pepper into crowds of fans.

When the Red Sox won the World Series won again three years later there was yet more rioting, fans hurled rocks at police in riot gear, smashed shops windows and lighting fires. Police made 37 arrests and authorities promised lessons had been learnt.

In 2013 another Red Sox win sparked riots when unruly fans flipped cars, fought police and scaled lampposts near the Red Sox iconic Fenway Park ground.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here-are-five-american-cities-which-rioted-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/

[betsuni]

13. I saw a bit of soccer news, sweaty men ripping off their shirts and screaming, audience screaming.

It seemed so intense, more like an ancient ritual than a game. It scared me.

[ruet]

31. Oh Brother.

?w=1009&h=1024





Does that put your mind at ease?

[betsuni]

48. So? I was talking about a particular soccer game, not all soccer games.

I knew someone would do that. Those photos aren't intense, they're joyful.

[TheBeam19]

14. Soccer hooliganism is a thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

The “subculture” section is really interesting.

“Football hooligans often appear to be less interested in the football match than in the associated violence.

[…]

In the United Kingdom, 1960s and early 1970s football hooliganism was associated with the skinhead subculture. Later, the casual subculture transformed the British football hooligan scene. Instead of wearing working-class skinhead-style clothes, which readily identified hooligans to the police, hooligans began wearing designer clothes and expensive "offhand" sportswear (clothing worn without careful attention to practical considerations), particularly Stone Island, Prada, Burberry, CP Company, Sergio Tacchini and Adidas.[20]”

[Celerity]

39. COCK SPARRER - Runnin' Riot (1977)

Featuring footage of boot boys runnin' riot in the mid 1970's.

Label: Decca – FR 13710
Format:
Vinyl, 7", 45 RPM, Single, Promo, Stereo, Push Out Centre
Country: UK
Released: 1977

[Gidney N Cloyd]

15. Maybe not riots but there are several MLB parks I wouldn't walk near while wearing my Cubs cap.

It might not be so good for my health around Comiskey, either.

[IcyPeas]

17. George Orwell said international sporting competitions are "War Minus the Shooting"

"The Sporting Spirit" is an essay by George Orwell published in the magazine Tribune on 14 December 1945, and later in Shooting an Elephant and Other Essays, a collection of Orwell's essays published in 1950.[1][2] The essay was written on the heels of the 1945 tour of Great Britain by the Soviet football team FC Dynamo Moscow. The essay became famous for Orwell's description of international sporting competitions as "war minus the shooting", a phrase that has since been used as a metaphor for sports when referred to in popular media and for actions evoking hyper-nationalism and national pride.[1][3]

Orwell uses the examples of football, cricket, and boxing to argue that sport, while never intended to generate bonds of friendship, generates politicized and hyper-nationalistic emotions that can only stoke ill-will between nations.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sporting_Spirit

[Gore1FL]

18. I don't know if soccer itself is to blame.

But here is a crazy-assed story of the 1969 war between El Salvador and Honduras.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

[Casady1]

19. How can people become so nuts

When the game is so boring. If I need a nap I would put on a soccer game.

[fightforfreedom]

21. I am a big sports fan, however

for me watching a soccer game is like watching paint dry. It bores the hell out of me. I was watching one of the world cup games and they spent a lot of time passing the ball backwards, then they move forward, then pass the ball backwards over and over again.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. If I Were A Soccer Coach...

...I'd be a radical.
Becayse I'd be telling my players to quit trying to set up the perfect play and just blast away anytime their open 30 yards and in.
If anything, it would increase the action.
I really hate their offsides rule. Seems to me that it intentionally penalizes the quickest, fastest players.
I've had soccer fans that it prevents poaching. But, if say "So? How does poaching diminish the game if the point is to score goals?" I've never gotten a good answer.

[brooklynite]

23. What does soccer have to do with it?

Other than the fact that every nation plays it? The World Series and Super Bowl are domestic rather than international, and there have certainly been instances of violence at "victory parties".

[Deep State Witch]

24. It's Better Than Shooting At People

I mean, I'm not a big fan of World Cup soccer. I cheer for Croatia because I'm half Croatian. If the extreme nationalism surrounding sporting events helps to channel aggression that would otherwise go towards wars, I'm all for it.

[Bev54]

27. Firstly it is Wales not whales. Soccer, mostly known as football in the rest of the world

Sure they have violence etc but I am not sure you can compare to other sports within your own country when you consider that it is the number one sport in the world. People get passionate about their sports and shit happens in a lot of them. In Canada we have had riots after hockey games, doesn't happen often but it does happen. You have already stated you don't like soccer so I think there is some bias in the OP. I happen to love soccer and enjoy watching a good game, played some myself in my younger days and coached my son's team. My son also played hockey and volleyball, along with soccer, all at competitive levels and never had any violence at any games. You have hooligans in every part of the world, some of them happen to be soccer fans.

[usonian]

34. I was wondering who would be the first to call out humans versus cetaceans.

Cool! Actually, I suspect that people would go nuts over whatever sport is the most popular in their country.

In ours, it seems to be sedition. Sad.

[BlueTsunami2018]

29. It's certainly toxic to my ability to stay awake.

And yeah, it’s ridiculous that soccer hooligans actually plan out rumbles before and after watching their teams play to a scoreless tie.

At least our sports fans wait until they win a championship before setting cars on fire.

[ZonkerHarris]

32. There is plenty of violence and rioting after American sports teams win championships

Better check your facts on that one

[milestogo]

33. When the Chicago Bulls won their first NBA championship in the early 90s the city went wild.

Some of it was wholesome fun, but a lot of it wasn't. For the next 5 championships they released PSAs reminding people to celebrate responsibly.

As if people have to be reminded that an NBA championship is no excuse for looting and setting buildings on fire.

[Goodheart]

35. Deadly boring is what it is.

[TlalocW]

36. I don't watch any sports

But soccer holds a special place of disdain in my heart because some of the players will literally collapse and writhe in pain in order to get a penalty against the other team if someone from the other team breathes on them.

[Archae]

37. I've seen major fights break out at Pee Wee football games.

In the stands especially, the parents of the kids on the field.

Referees and coaches have needed police protection sometimes.

[Caliman73]

40. I think you may be examining the wrong thing.

It isn't the sport per se but the idea that people are so willing to identify with a team, whether local or national, that they are willing to engage in violence or other extreme acts.

I have played sports most of my life. I enjoy the activity and the competition. I could never understand how people who aren't really even affiliated with a team, other than living in the geographical area where the team plays, would for such an identity so as to think that when the team loses, they lose and when the team wins, they win. I have little to no ability to relate to people who give so much of their own being to a situation where players come and go, teams come and go, etc...

Then again, I can't relate to people who are so much into celebrities and their lives. I may admire a good actor or musician, but I don't follow their lives to the extent where it occupies much of my time or I buy things that commemorate or symbolize them.

Just not a mindset I can relate to.

It isn't Soccer or Football, or Basketball, or Hockey that is toxic. It is "Fandom" that can be toxic.

[malaise]

50. Great post

😀

[honest.abe]

52. Agree. Its more the issue with fandom than the sport itself.

[malaise]

41. Only Americans playing a tournament among teams from different states in the same country

would call it a World Series.
International football is a global sport. Sure it has political overtones like every other global sport.

[Celerity]

43. +1

[malaise]

46. Hey you

😀😀

[Bev54]

51. People often do not understand that the World Series was named so because

the original sponsor was the "World newspaper" and was never intended to mean world competition.

[Renew Deal]

53. Combine a bunch of false assertions with an agenda

And here we are.


https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/eagles-fans-super-bowl-celebrations-riots-mayhem-20180206.html

[maxsolomon]

54. If international soccer is toxic, then all sports are toxic.

Games are essentially substitutes for tribal warfare. It's a good way to sublimate that impulse.

If you have a better one, let me know. Religion isn't it.

[krawhitham]

55. no shit

[honest.abe]

56. France vs Morocco is becoming an Arab vs West matchup...

or perhaps colonial nation vs their colonial masters.

Hopefully just a game and not something bigger.

Personally Im rooting for Morocco. Love the underdog!

[Disaffected]

57. Folks from Wales aren't

whales (unless they weight over 300 pounds).

[honest.abe]

58. LOL