Criminal defense attorney explains why you should avoid self-checkout lanes: 'Theft by mistake'

[70sEraVet]

A surprisingly informative article about the perils of using self-checkout at stores. Are we accepting a legal liability when we check our own items?

Jernigan explains that, in the early days of self-checkout, she noticed stores letting people off if they forgot to scan an item.

“They let almost all of these people either scan and pay for the item, or just let them go, but took the item they did not pay for,” she says.

Now, however, stores aren’t as lenient, she says. Jernigan believes this is because shoplifters have become so adept at stealing from self-checkout lanes that stores no longer want to take a gamble on whether a theft was accidental.

“They have lost all sympathy, and they are just taking a ‘Tell it to the judge’ approach,” she adds.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/criminal-defense-attorney-explains-why-170210360.html

[Hortensis]

1. Pay for everything, and skip the "be very afraid" part?

Realizing that being charged with shoplifting can happen to nice people should help cut carelessness, so it's worth knowing.

Otherwise, life's waay too long to go through it afraid of everything that might happen but won't.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. While I Agree...

...with that simplest of solutions, I once forgot to scan a box of AA batteries.
Never even took them out of the cart. I put the dog food on top of them.
Didn't realize it until I got to the car.
I went back in to pay for them.
But since I did it, I can understand making this mistake.

[Hortensis]

34. Yes. I once missed an oversized shirt hanging from the cart handle

until I was at the car. I don't know if I'd gone through self check or failed to put it on the conveyor belt for a checker, but guess it doesn't matter. Same thing.

[nini]

2. Screw them

They need to pay me to do the job they should be doing.

[qazplm135]

3. And you could forget something

Going through regular checkout too.

Should I just never check anything out again for the tiny chance of this combination of events happening?

[70sEraVet]

9. To me, the issue is that stores are shifting a criminal liability onto their customers.

Self-checkout is ultimately to the store's benefit. We, as customers, are accepting the liability for no added benefit.

[qazplm135]

15. The chances of this happening

are what?

Unless it's more than tiny, it's not something that should affect behavior.

[Ms. Toad]

48. Some of us find a lot of added benefit.

1. I scan faster than any cashier I've met.
2. I know the prices for the items in my cart. When something scans incorrectly, I immediately flag it for an employee to come over. It's hard to watch the prices rung up for each item when someone else is doing the scanning - sometimes just too many moving parts; other times there isn't a screen where I can see it. That means I need to check my receipt and hold up the line (or return if I've already left the store when I discover it).
3. I carefully pick out my produce - only to see it carelessly tossed in a bag, often with a heavy item on top of it bruising it. I'm a better packer than any cashier I've ever met.
4. I know the difference between parsley and cilantro. I know that anise and fennel are the same plant (but two different look-up keys on the screen).
5. I also know that two boxes of cereal don't need to be doubled bagged in a separate bag from a bag of chick-peas, also double bagged.

You may not find these things beneficial - but I do.

[dalton99a]

4. Kick

[roamer65]

5. Judge is gonna let people off the first time.

From one incident, you cannot discern whether or not it was accidental or intentional.

Waste of court time and legal resources, IMO.

…and I utterly hate self-checkout because it is way easier to make a mistake.

[uncle ray]

28. um, no.

first, racial disparity would like to have a word about that. besides, a person of any color without an attorney is going to have a rough time navigating the legal system. i found that out myself when i was young a few times.

[roamer65]

36. Very true.

[gulliver]

6. I think the stores are probably on top of the numbers

I go through the self-checkout lanes a lot, and I generally don't like them. But I'd like to see numbers before I see panicky advice about not using self-checkout as justified.

I think stores are sneaky when it comes to preventing shoplifting. I've read somewhere that they do things like announce "codes" that no one understands over the PA system every so often. That way, any potential shoplifters in the store get paranoid.

When they review the video, like it mentions in the article, what do they do if someone accidentally scanned an item twice? Do they credit the person's credit card? I think they should.

[harumph]

7. What if self checkout is the only option?

Stupid advice. In addition, just how accurate are those stupid machines?
I shop at Kroger and some are always down for a software glitch. I'm sure theft occurs,
but I think it would be difficult to prove. Maybe they should just pay cashiers.

[Prairie_Seagull]

8. Self check out costs Jobs, some, decent union Jobs.

It's one of the first steps (it has already begun) to automation changing America and in this case we are the robots. They are training us into unpaid, human robots. They will tell us this is to save us money and yea maybe it could save a very small percentage. How much you want to bet it saves them so much more. Wages, health care, 401K participation...

I always wait to be checked out by a person. My feeling is some day there really wont be a checker available. What then. This is how automation rears its ugly head. No one asked us. If corporation not longer have to operate in the public interest. What in the hell is going to stop them. It's all about increasing shareholder value. We are living the beginnings of a sci-fi story.

We can't be fearful of everything, i agree, but knowing what you should is the key.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. I Thought So, Too

But, at 2 big box stores near me, they have 4 people each at the two self-check banks and 3 or 4 regular stations.
That's 12 checkers.
I thought about it & realized neither of those stores ever had more than 12 registers open.
So at least in this case, it didn't cost jobs.
I just assumed it did until the evidence contradicted that assumption.

[Prairie_Seagull]

40. Corporations in most cases, are not stupid.

I would guess that what you are speaking to are regional differences. I live in a red area and what you say is not the case. I frequently see at big box stores much different numbers. It's great that yours are more employee friendly.

I will tell you right up front that I have had my fill of us all being taken advantage of by big pharma and big... You know the arguments Professor. The regional differences are exactly how I would break it to us napping sheep if I were the CEO.

A slow but steady constant increase to the bottom line while at the same time decreasing employment expenditure. What is to follow? Are we seeing increasing numbers homeless and of youth homelessness specifically. Youth showing signs of nihilism. Homelessness I don't think can be laid completely at the feet of any one thing but lack of decent employment has to account for a large/ish percentage.

I truly appreciate your evidentiary example and always look forward to reading your posts. In this case however I believe both can be true.

[ProfessorGAC]

41. Likely So

And, I admit it's a small sample size.
That said, it's been forever since I saw much more than a third of registers open before self-check became the norm. And, that's everywhere I went, not just those 2 closest stores.
So, they were reducing headcount anyway.
Interesting, I worked for Ior a multinational that never had a layoff in it's history. Yeah, one time they offered 3 years severance to a layer of management, but those people were 2 or 3 years from retirement. A pseudo layoff I guess. It only affected 5 people.
I should also mention that our CEO made 30x our LOWEST paid full-time employees. Not 500 or a thousand times. I've seen that side of big business.
So my perspective is altered by that experience though I understand big business well enough to know you are spot on
One of my biggest criticisms of big business has long been headcount reductions as the first move of a new CEO. They're paid to think strategically. There's nothing strategic about mass furloughs. It's a 100% tactical move.

[Prairie_Seagull]

42. When did our county allow corporations to no loger have to operate in the "public interest"

Apparently now bylaws indicate that "increasing shareholder value" is the mantra.

Sounds like your employer is one of the 'good ones'. That is so good to hear. People need stories that give them hope, especially young people. I have 3 kids. 2 late twenties and one mid thirties. 2 college grads both teachers and the current environment for them is mostly heartbreaking. There is of course some hope left in them but it seems to me that hope is swirling the drain.

It's the holiday season and I am bumming myself out. Best to you professorio.

I need a drink.

Later

[ProfessorGAC]

44. When I Went To Business School...

...which was 17 years after my PhD, the philosophy taught was about STAKEholders. Not, shareholders.
And, I went to a big B-School. I know a couple people who got MBA degrees from NYU & Colombia respectively. They were taught the same thingso
So, I'm not sure which biz schools are promoting this fantasy that there is a legal obligation to improve value to shareholders above all else.
Three major business schools were not teaching that, even after the "greed is good" era.
And, my company did not function that way.

[Prairie_Seagull]

47. So, good evening your professorness.

So looked up the discussion topics and found these two links. I am just a citizen, no specialized training what-so-ever. I like to consider myself a reasonably intelligent man. I have found Thom Hartmann to be a quotable source and what I was quoting to you (and no doubt others) were from him mostly.

That said here are a couple of links to better explain what those thoughts are concerning.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilmalhotra/2019/04/16/should-corporations-simply-maximize-shareholder-value/?sh=1d0964f127b7

https://www.context.org/iclib/ic41/rowe/

Maybe some things have changed

Please do not hesitate to correct me where wrong. I would note we are kind of hyjacking a bit. DU mail is cool if you want.

[happybird]

10. This happened to a friend this past autumn at Walmart

He and his wife were in the long self checkout line when he realized they forgot something. So they decided she would stay in the line and do the check out while he walked all the way over to Lawn and Garden and buy the item they forgot. She met him over at Lawn and Garden, he tossed the item he had purchased at the L&G checkout in the cart and took over pushing the cart out to their car.

Store security stopped them as they were putting bags in the car. She had forgotten to scan a case of soda on the bottom rack of the cart. She was trying to hurry through the check out and just missed seeing it down there. They apologized and offered to pay but the store wasn’t having it. They had a police officer already hanging out at the store. My friend was charged with a misdemeanor because he was the one who pushed the cart out of the store. She wasn’t charged. Fortunately, they are well off and his lawyer got the charge dropped. He is still pissed about the whole episode. Most people won’t have the financial resources to hire a lawyer and will end up just taking the charge. Our legal system sucks.

Edit to add: I forgot- they had a couple expensive items in the cart so they kept asking the security why on Earth they would steal a $5 case of soda when they had paid for 100’s of dollars worth of items? Security did not care.

[70sEraVet]

11. And I know that at Walmart, there is often only 1 or 2 actual cashiers for the whole store.

So customers don't have much option but to use the self-checkouts.

[2naSalit]

23. Unless you complain...

And do it in front of other customers who don't want to use the self rip-off lanes either. I did that last month and the manager opened up a bunch of other lanes within minutes.

Get the whole line to complain together, tell them you'll leave all this shit right here and walk out if you don't sort of thing. If you have four or more customers ganging up on that, they will put cashiers to work.

[ruet]

38. Sounds Like A Good Way to Get Yourself Plasterd On Social Media as Karen or Ken.

While I agree about self-checkouts, that aint it.,

[2naSalit]

39. DOesn't have to be...

A karen meltdown. If you let them know, calmly, that you refuse to use those things and have others agree, they want your money, they'll get cashiers on the line pretty quickly.

It's funny how quickly they respond when you are standing there ready to give them your money and you tell them you'll walk if they don't unfuckify the situation.

[mike_c]

24. this is why they use self checking in the first place

To reduce staff, i.e. people lose their jobs when we do their jobs for free. Remember how all those store clerks were "essential personal" during the pandemic? One way to thank them is to never use self checkout. I'll leave a full cart at the customer service desk and shop elsewhere before I'll let stores force me to surplus their workers. In grocery stores those are often good union jobs.

[Arazi]

14. I know that story. Walmart is notorious for this

Friend forgot the $15 bag of dog food on the lower rack. Paid $300+ for the plants and garden supplies in the upper part of the cart and just completely missed the item underneath.

Security was merciless and charged her. An elderly woman was also arrested at the same time for two bras that got intertwined so she mistakenly only paid for one instead of both.

Needless to say that friend is never shopping at Walmart ever again after also going to court and getting the charge dismissed but what a massive hassle. It has to cost Walmart much more in attorney fees to do it this way instead of letting customers just go back and pay for the item (especially when it’s pretty obvious it’s a checkout error)

[Kaleva]

29. Cashier's won't see a bag of dog food on a lower rack of a cart either

[ProfessorGAC]

32. They Might

The Walmart & Target near us have the parabolic mirrors on the left of the carts.
Doesn't mean they always look, but they have the means to see under the cart.

[Kaleva]

35. I haven't seen such mirrors but I haven't looked for them either.

[hunter]

25. I'm always amazed that there are places in the U.S.A. where the cops hang out at WalMart.

Our cops will respond instantly to a gang shooting or anything else where someone is bleeding or on fire, but non-violent stuff like shoplifting, fender benders, etc., is hit-or-miss. They'll probably tell you you can file a report on their website or in person at the police station. WalMart, Target, Costco, etc., hire their own security to exclude shoplifters and file those police reports.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. At A Walmart West Of Us...

...(next county over) there is a cop shop IN THE STORE!
And, it's only a town of around 18,000. The police station is around 15 blocks away but they have a mini-station right at the north entrance.
Go figure!

[SKKY]

12. Something similar happened to me and my wife just last night...

...at Sam's Club. We always use the self-checkout on the App and scan the items as we grab them. My wife grabbed a box of Bai water and I got a percussion massager that was crazy on sale. As she was pulling up the App, I set the massager on top of the box and went to look for something else. My wife scanned the water, and then thought she was scanning the massager but didn't realize she actually scanned the water twice.

As we were about to leave, we counted the items in the cart and made sure it jived with what the App was telling us (11 items total), and it did. As we were leaving, they scanned the QR code on the App, and then scanned 3 random items in the cart. "Cindy" scanned one item, and then scanned the massager, which obviously had not been paid for. She called her supervisor who came over, removed one of the Bai waters, added the massager, and we paid the difference. No problem. They were very nice and understanding, but I do know they catch a lot of people trying to steal stuff by hiding it under other items. But, I think it really comes down to how the person reacts when something like this happens.

[70sEraVet]

21. "... how the person reacts...".

Maybe also, how the person LOOKS! Perhaps based on skin color, clothing, cleanliness, accent, etc.

I remember once, a cop doing security at a Kroger thought I was a panhandler in the parking lot accosting customers. I had just been working on stuff in the yard, ran over to Kroger to pick up a couple of things, and stopped in the parking lot to chat with a couple of ladies who lived across the street from me. The cop was embarrassed. I'm a small white guy. Might have been a very different story if I was perceived as a threatening black man.

[happybird]

37. My friend and his wife

are attractive, white, obviously upper middle class and were driving a Mercedes SUV.

[SKKY]

46. Well, I'm not sure because I'm white and my wife is Spanish...

...and we were speaking Spanish, which given where we live (Very, very red state), we often get side glances from folks.

[Ms. Toad]

49. I use the Giant Eagle app and scan as I go.

My last step before I check out (i.e. scan the pay QR code and pay the bill) is to park my cart near the register and check the list of items scanned against what's in my cart.

[SKKY]

51. We always count the number of items in our cart...

...against what the App says. We just missed it this one time.

[Vinca]

13. One time I scanned a box of bandaids only to find - when I got home - that it was 2 boxes

stuck together. Goody goody that I am, I took them back the next day and explained what happened.

[former9thward]

17. This is BS

A tik tok lawyer click bait. The link does not cite a single real case of this happening.

[HAB911]

18. I'll self checkout when I get a 10% discount

not before

[BannonsLiver]

19. Love the DU self checkout wars

[HAB911]

20. LOL, I know

like who gives a shit what anyone thinks about it? TOO FUNNY

[mike_c]

22. never ever use self checkout

When enough people use self checkout, stores reduce their staff, i.e. when we do someone's job for free, someone loses that job and their paycheck. Grocery stores use self checkout to reduce their workforce and raise their profits at workers' expense. Please don't use self checkout. A few seconds of slightly better convenience is not good reason to take someone's job away.

[Kaleva]

27. I see many store employees filling pick up orders at Walmart

Do you have a link that shows that a store that went self check out has fewer employees? Or is this something you are assuming?

[mike_c]

45. I spent ten years on our regional central labor council

That comes straight from the retail and grocery union delegates and staff.

[Ms. Toad]

50. Many advances shift workforce needs.

Should we just stop advancing just to save all of those jobs? Stop using horseless carriages because it puts the blacksmith out of business? Shun refrigeration because it puts the ice cutter out of work? Yes these are things which seem like silly objections now - but they were advances in technology which put people out of work.

And, I'm not doing someone's job for free. I'm protecting my own self-interests (faster check-out, more accurate check-out, fewer interactions with customer service when I discover something was mis-scanned that I didn't catch as the cashier was scanning my goods, less damage to my produce, etc.)

[Kaleva]

26. Article doesn't say how many are being charged for theft by mistake.

Is it as common as being struck by lightning?

[old as dirt]

43. I've been personally threatened with charges of theft...

...if I see an open carry gun nut in a restaurant with an AR-15 and decide to run away to save my life.

Just sayin...