My face is blue... one more time. If you don't like Tax Laws... support changing Tax Law.

[WarGamer]

The IRS and Federal Prosecutors don't decide what is a crime.

That is covered by something called a LAW, drafted by Congress and signed by a POTUS.

The IRS are like the umpire in baseball.

The rule book says the strike zone is knees to chest. Don't be surprised if a pitch at the shoelaces is called a ball.

The IRS has had Trump's taxes forever... and no charges were filed.

But there are ZILLIONS of pixels and bits and bytes dedicated to "Lock him up"

Refocus, people... it's the TAX LAWS.

WE NEED TAX LAW REFORM TO MAKE THE WEALTHY PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

A long time ago... here on DU I said "Billionaires are LAUGHING at talk of raising top marginal rate from 36% to 39.6%.

Politicians work HARD to protect the wealthy.

Some politicians excepted, of course... ever notice how Senator Elizabeth Warren is ALWAYS on the right side of the tax debate BUT her proposals never quite become law??

[dpibel]

1. There's a difference between "has had" and "has audited"

You seem to believe that every tax return the IRS gets is somehow examined by the IRS and found to be good or bad.

That's not the case.

In fact, it appears that the IRS failed to perform mandatory audits of Trump's returns for at least a couple of the years he was president.

I have no idea whether Trump's tax people took everything right up to the line and never stepped over. It would be unusual in Trump world.

I do know that the fact Trump's returns have been in the hands of the IRS does not mean the IRS has approved--or even looked at--the returns.

[RockRaven]

2. The IRS admits it doesn't even try to enforce compliance with the law when it comes to the wealthy

so what difference would changing the tax laws make? They still won't even try to enforce compliance when it comes to the wealthy -- because that's the way Congress wants it, and that is reflected in the IRS's budget which is under Congress's control.

[TexasBushwhacker]

3. Yes BUT

Now that the IRS will be receiving an influx of cash over the next 9 years, they will, hopefully, be able to perform audits more often and more thoroughly. I hope they decide to pay enough to that they can attract the best and brightest forensic accountants to come work for them.

The people and businesses cheat on their taxes because chances are, they'll NEVER get audited. It shouldn't be that way. Until we get better at collecting the fair taxes that are owed, even under the current laws, we would be much better off increasing the likelihood of audits to the point that people and businesses look at it as not IF they get audited but WHEN they get audited. That should increase voluntary compliance. Then we can start talking about new tax laws.

I would also change the current IRS whistleblower law:

https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/whistleblower-office-at-a-glance

You can get 15 to 30% of the amount the IRS collects because of your tip, but only if the amount is over $2 Million. That is just plain BS. I know a guy who hasn't filed income taxes in over 10 years, but it's unlikely he owes more than $200K.

I would also get rid of stepped up basis for heirs other than spouses. The United States shouldn't be in the business of perpetuating dynasties at the regular US taxpayers' expense.

[WarGamer]

4. Call me a pessimist...

But I think the IRS will use that newly found cash to audit more Grandmothers selling homemade soap at the farmers market and the guy with a side gig picking things up at garage sales and reselling on eBay.

I have ZERO confidence that the IRS will focus on the UHNW individual.

[uponit7771]

10. Unfortunately

[MichMan]

9. Does there have to get a monetary award to do the right thing and turn in a tax cheat?

"You can get 15 to 30% of the amount the IRS collects because of your tip, but only if the amount is over $2 Million. That is just plain BS. I know a guy who hasn't filed income taxes in over 10 years, but it's unlikely he owes more than $200K."

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. Of course not

Then again, I'm probably one of the few people who know about this, and like many Texans, he has guns - lots of them. Being a whistleblower is not without risk.

[MichMan]

20. Can't people be reported anonymously ?

What about the millionaire with a gun?

[TexasBushwhacker]

24. Oh, I'm sure they do their best to maintain anonymity

But only a handful of people know he hasn't filed, and I'm one of them.

[WarGamer]

14. Hope that's not used by people who just have personal differences.

Like an ex spouse reporting his/her ex... for vengeance whether it's true or not.

[nightwing1240]

5. and some pitches are straight down the middle

Yes, we need more tax laws and they need enforcing. But when a large group of people (like us) find out they (we) pay more taxes than say a President or a corporation people are going to be angry. That is not at all surprising. Trying to figure out though if that was taking a swing at Elizabeth Warren for her long time stance on this issue. She is always in the right side but her proposals never become law on the matter, that is what I am wondering what was meant.

[WarGamer]

12. I'm a big fan of Senator Warren...

Possibly my favorite Senator.

What I meant was... She's always on the right side of tax policy, IMHO... but there never seems to be changes to tax LAW.

Why, I don't quite know... but I'll just say, Wealthy folks have quite a bit of pull with MANY politicians.

[live love laugh]

6. Existing laws were broken by TFG. So there's that. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[stopdiggin]

7. not so as the IRS has told us

at least not that I've heard. I have heard a few things about states making noises about his filings and accounting practices ..

[live love laugh]

16. The IRS doesn't have to tell us if he broke the law.

From what I’ve read many tax experts have attested to the fraudulence.

[stopdiggin]

17. then by all means, I invite them to alert

the IRS to their 'findings.'
(I think there might even be a financial reward - whistleblower - involved? So it would certainly be to their advantage!?)

Meanwhile - you let me know when 'fraud' charges are filed (at a federal level). I suppose we can always hope ...

[live love laugh]

18. LOL

[stopdiggin]

19. an example from another OP

- David Cay Johnston, DCReport - State and city auditors spotted a Schedule C consulting business that showed no fees or other revenue but more than $600,000 in costs. State and city auditors disallowed the losses. Trump appealed. I couldn’t find a record of the IRS taking any action.

this appears to be a Raw Story report - concerning an incident dating back to 1984 - so, for what it's worth ..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217514803

[W_HAMILTON]

26. If he's violated state laws, odds are about 100% that he has violated federal law.

If for the simple fact that what is deemed state income and federal income are mostly the same.

And based on the sort of tax fraud he has been accused of in the state of New York, he almost assuredly has also broken federal tax laws.

[stopdiggin]

27. actually tax law, and enforement mechanisms

are wildly disparate.

One would think that fraud is simply fraud - but I think you'll find that a lot of accountants and attorneys practicing tax law are going to tell you there's miles of gray area. Too bad, but that's the way it works..

Look - I'm not saying definitively that Trump didn't break federal tax code (the man's as crooked as a dog's hind leg - and that would be crawling out on a limb that I don't care to defend) - what I am saying is that, to date, I haven't been hearing a lot of authoritative voices saying that these tax returns represent 'big trouble' for Trump with the IRS. And I think I'm going to wait for that moment. He has, after all, been filing these things for the entirety of his adult life ... Haven't seen a lot of repercussion thus far.

[W_HAMILTON]

28. I don't want to give away my profession, but let's just say...

...I am one of those you mentioned and I am telling you that if one commits tax fraud in their state, odds are they also committed some form of tax fraud at the federal level since the two mostly overlap (except for various differences, most of which are trivial when compared to the grand scheme of taxable income).

For instance, the type of tax fraud alleged in the New York case would absolutely also be criminal tax fraud at the federal level.

[stopdiggin]

29. fair enough. and I will accept your

more knowledgeable take. Would you agree with the following? Trump has been filing these type of returns (federally) for literally decades? And that would appear to be a rather lengthy string of - good luck? And perhaps also - that 'creative accounting' (and filings) are not at all uncommon with individuals with this type of wealth and holdings?

It'll be a lovely day (and justice served) if/when the IRS goes all pit bull and tears a huge chunk out of Donald Trump. But .. waiting.

[W_HAMILTON]

30. Yes, but part of the problem is that there isn't enough resources or will power to go after...

...people such as Trump.

They see the returns as too complex and just ignore it. Or, if they do happen to get selected for random audit, it's almost a battle of attrition and they just give up after a while because to find the actual fraud, it involves quite a bit of digging and manpower. Even in the case of Trump, look at all it took to get a case even advanced to this level. I have no doubt there's no shortage of fraud you can find in those tax returns if you really dug into them, but who is going to do that? Even the IRS basically said it was too complicated and passed on it, even when it went against their own regulations that they were supposed to audit a president's tax returns.

I don't know what the answer to that problem is. Certainly more manpower and enforcement resources would help, as well as simplifying our tax system so that even large and complex returns are easier to audit to uncover potential fraud.

[stopdiggin]

31. thank you. I'm in complete agreement

with everything you just said.
----- -----

[SoCalDavidS]

8. With The repubs Controlling The House, There Is ZERO Chance Of Any Changes

The same chance that Teflon Man will be held accountable by the IRS Commissioner he appointed.

[WarGamer]

13. True... but this should have never been allowed to be the wet kiss the wealthy now receive.

[SoCalDavidS]

15. The repubs Fear A Progressive Tax Structure

Then we could pay for social programs, and they hate that shit.

[maxsolomon]

23. Shit in 1 hand and support changing the tax law in the other...

Which one fills up quicker?

[W_HAMILTON]

25. Trumps wasn't audited, as he should have been per the IRS's own regulations.