Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 08:48 AM Jan 2023

Did Trump plant those Biden documents at the 1st and 2nd locations?

Probably not Trump personally, but one of his operatives?

This just seems way to out there and convenient for Trump. I think that as they investigate Trump, this needs to be examined closely.

Also as they examine the Biden documents, any fingerprints should be checked out to see what connection the handlers have with Trumps team.

83 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Did Trump plant those Biden documents at the 1st and 2nd locations? (Original Post) fescuerescue Jan 2023 OP
No. Next question? brooklynite Jan 2023 #1
I agree, a Biden staff member probably screwed up. fightforfreedom Jan 2023 #5
FWIW..I think the MAL Trump documents theft agingdem Jan 2023 #17
But it would also require sloppy record-keeping by National Archives Sanity Claws Jan 2023 #22
Yes, why did no one at PatSeg Jan 2023 #39
The National Archives probably never had these particular documents. Ms. Toad Jan 2023 #51
Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2023 #66
The timing does seem suspicious to say the least Blues Heron Jan 2023 #2
How is that? iemanja Jan 2023 #58
No ..... Lovie777 Jan 2023 #3
I agree with Brooklynite Better Days Ahoy Jan 2023 #4
The Presidents have a more rigorous process iemanja Jan 2023 #59
Thank you for the clarity. Appreciate that. Better Days Ahoy Jan 2023 #69
Exactly my thought. lark Jan 2023 #6
And Trump had access to these documents for 4 years fescuerescue Jan 2023 #50
How did Trump get the records out of the National Archives, where they belong? iemanja Jan 2023 #60
Well all we know right now. Is that the National Archives doesn't have them fescuerescue Jan 2023 #71
That would mean NARA would have to have records of having processed the documents iemanja Jan 2023 #77
for sure fescuerescue Jan 2023 #82
for sure fescuerescue Jan 2023 #83
Hanlon's razor DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2023 #7
I like that a lot. Thanks! PCIntern Jan 2023 #27
You're welcome. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2023 #36
The docs were discovered by Biden's people. LiberalFighter Jan 2023 #8
But that doesn't explain how they got there fescuerescue Jan 2023 #9
I think the Pig's behavior set Biden's people off on a prudent doc check... Thomas Hurt Jan 2023 #10
Why has Trump been so vocal the past few weeks Emile Jan 2023 #11
The first one was like Nov 12 they found them Hugh_Lebowski Jan 2023 #14
and the same mole could be the one Emile Jan 2023 #19
Nov 2 AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2023 #29
"Feds" didn't find them as I understand it, his staff did. Thomas Hurt Jan 2023 #47
when the archives noticed docs were missing they simply asked for them back from trump... samnsara Jan 2023 #12
Who knows? Certainly no one here. Scrivener7 Jan 2023 #13
Thank you. Kid Berwyn Jan 2023 #81
I don't want us at DU to become known for unsubstantiated conspiracy theories lindysalsagal Jan 2023 #15
When dealing with tfg, there is no conspiracy I would not at least rule out. Scrivener7 Jan 2023 #24
Agree!! JanLip Jan 2023 #16
Certainly worth ruling out if it hasn't been already.... Chakaconcarne Jan 2023 #18
This crossed my mind malaise Jan 2023 #20
Exactly. niyad Jan 2023 #21
It's crossed my mind, too. dmr Jan 2023 #52
I'm not ruling it out. 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2023 #23
Yes, and he did it personally... sarisataka Jan 2023 #25
Probably Putin's agents fescuerescue Jan 2023 #26
Then why didn't they use this to throw last years election? AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2023 #30
Clearly they tried fescuerescue Jan 2023 #31
You do know this isn't 2016, right? AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2023 #32
We don't know all the facts yet fescuerescue Jan 2023 #41
Popularity in the mid 40's caused Democrats to overcome the fizzled Red Wave? Polybius Jan 2023 #73
*sigh* sarisataka Jan 2023 #34
No. onenote Jan 2023 #28
Well they managed to influence an entire national election in 2016 fescuerescue Jan 2023 #42
Not everything you don't like is a conspiracy... You... you know that, right? mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2023 #33
a better question: if he COULD, would he? GenXer47 Jan 2023 #35
No Kaleva Jan 2023 #37
Just seeing reports that the second batch was found in Wilmington in President Biden's garage. MichMan Jan 2023 #38
Roger Stone disguised as Jill Biden got in. onenote Jan 2023 #40
You don't think that Putin's agents could get into a garage? fescuerescue Jan 2023 #43
I would assume that the President's home has adequate security. MichMan Jan 2023 #44
Well I don't think Biden put them there fescuerescue Jan 2023 #45
That may be what AG Garland is going to announce later today MichMan Jan 2023 #46
Then why isn't Biden saying that he didn't put them there? Polybius Jan 2023 #74
How did they get the documents from the National Archives in the first place? iemanja Jan 2023 #57
It doesn't work that way n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2023 #67
How does it work? iemanja Jan 2023 #68
National Archives SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2023 #78
Classified documents aren't checked out period iemanja Jan 2023 #79
Who said I believe they were planted? SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2023 #80
Yes, and I just heard a lot of what was there was condolence letters. GoCubsGo Jan 2023 #49
Most impiortantly iemanja Jan 2023 #56
Nearly one third of DU poll responders believe they were planted. MichMan Jan 2023 #63
Yes, I saw that iemanja Jan 2023 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author helpisontheway Jan 2023 #48
The Special Counsel investigation will likely reveal how and why the documents came to be there. Mister Ed Jan 2023 #53
I'm thinking there are classified docs at every ex-President's home or office Kennah Jan 2023 #54
You're probably right. The problem began ecstatic Jan 2023 #62
Shredding classified documnets would be a major crime ripcord Jan 2023 #76
No iemanja Jan 2023 #55
Lol. I love a good conspiracy but this is a bit much ecstatic Jan 2023 #61
No way those are 10 yrs old Tribetime Jan 2023 #65
No likely... Happy Hoosier Jan 2023 #70
Did Trump orchestrate an insurrection against the United States? Emile Jan 2023 #72
I think its more likely staffers were careless when they packed things up. SYFROYH Jan 2023 #75

agingdem

(7,587 posts)
17. FWIW..I think the MAL Trump documents theft
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:11 AM
Jan 2023

was never #1 on the DOJ charge list...it was always the insurrection..a sitting president plots a multi pronged coup and incites an insurrection, aided and abetted by MAGA members of congress, unhinged far right lawyers, White House staff/aides/advisors, the Secret Service/heads of government agencies/state officials/the wife of a Supreme Court justice,/paramilitary militias...mishandling documents may be a rare occurrence but it does happen, overthrowing the government of the United States to stay in power does not...

Sanity Claws

(21,794 posts)
22. But it would also require sloppy record-keeping by National Archives
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:22 AM
Jan 2023

not only Biden's office.
That is why I have questions too.

PatSeg

(46,268 posts)
39. Yes, why did no one at
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 10:41 AM
Jan 2023

the National Archives realize the documents weren't returned? What kind of system do they have?

Ms. Toad

(33,761 posts)
51. The National Archives probably never had these particular documents.
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 10:29 PM
Jan 2023

They don't check information out to the president's or vice president's like a library. They receive it from them. I don't know all of the details, but I know that while one administration is in office, it has custody of the records - and the obligation to document it. It isn't a respository or index of all classified information

Not sure why so many people think there is a master list of classified information to check against so that they could determine exactly what is missing and who has hold of it.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
66. Exactly
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:38 PM
Jan 2023

I was just about to post this. It’s not like all of this stuff goes to the National Archives and people get it as they need it.

I work with classified info every single day, and the copies I use will never end up in the National Arxhives, because they go into a burn bag when I’m done with them.

Better Days Ahoy

(698 posts)
4. I agree with Brooklynite
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 08:54 AM
Jan 2023

I read/heard accounts where most Administrations have some clean-up here and there.
Funny how no one's finding any documents specifically from Obama -- just from Biden who's in the stronger political position.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
59. The Presidents have a more rigorous process
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:06 PM
Jan 2023

because they are covered by the Presidential Records Act. The VP's records are left to him and his staff.

Better Days Ahoy

(698 posts)
69. Thank you for the clarity. Appreciate that.
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 08:35 AM
Jan 2023

Looking for the finding of staff oversight.
I know I forget stuff when I'm packing to move, too.

lark

(22,814 posts)
6. Exactly my thought.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 08:56 AM
Jan 2023

Only I wondered if one of Putin's operatives did this to hurt Biden and help tfg and co. hurt Ukraine and help Pootey.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
50. And Trump had access to these documents for 4 years
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 09:48 PM
Jan 2023

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2023, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Wouldn't be the first time that trump delivered material to the Russia.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
60. How did Trump get the records out of the National Archives, where they belong?
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:07 PM
Jan 2023

And why doesn't the National Archives have a record of them in their holdings?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
71. Well all we know right now. Is that the National Archives doesn't have them
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 12:22 PM
Jan 2023

But I suspect that if anyone could get them out - it would be the President of the United States.

Documents HAVE walked out the national archives in the past. It's not even a rare event.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/national-archives-missing-documents-cases-before-trump/

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
77. That would mean NARA would have to have records of having processed the documents
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 02:08 PM
Jan 2023

and we haven't heard they have.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,675 posts)
7. Hanlon's razor
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 08:56 AM
Jan 2023

Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
9. But that doesn't explain how they got there
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:00 AM
Jan 2023

I just don't see Biden's people transporting them to two separate locations and then only to be discovered once Trump is being investigated for the same thing.

Seems more likely that Putin or Biden's people put them there recently.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
10. I think the Pig's behavior set Biden's people off on a prudent doc check...
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:00 AM
Jan 2023

and they found stuff and they notified the archives. There needs to be an investigation to see how and why they were there.

Still isn't anywhere close to the Pig's refusing to return docs because he thinks he owns the Presidency like a piece of real estate.

Emile

(20,956 posts)
11. Why has Trump been so vocal the past few weeks
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:02 AM
Jan 2023

about when will the feds search Biden properties for documents?

It's not a stretch to question this!

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
14. The first one was like Nov 12 they found them
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:06 AM
Jan 2023

Could also be a mole who let Trump in on the finding.

Emile

(20,956 posts)
19. and the same mole could be the one
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:13 AM
Jan 2023

who planted them. Who knows what the real truth is, but I don't think Joe Biden as long as he has been in politics would be this careless with top secret docs. This whole story stinks!

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,588 posts)
29. Nov 2
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:41 AM
Jan 2023

It was before the election. If it was planted, why didn’t the ratfuckers trying the same thing they did with Weiners laptop and Hillary?
I think if they were planted we would have heard a lot sooner, probably from Rudy.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
47. "Feds" didn't find them as I understand it, his staff did.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:48 AM
Jan 2023

There has been no search warrant for any Biden locations because they notified the archives as they were supposed to.

The Pig thinks he owns those documents, hell the whole presidency. He did the "deal" he "bought" the presidency and he wasn't done with it. The Pig refused to turn them over. Lied about having them.

samnsara

(17,476 posts)
12. when the archives noticed docs were missing they simply asked for them back from trump...
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:05 AM
Jan 2023

..Only after he lied, moved them about and tried to hide them did he get into trouble. Theres no intent on joes part and it was stated in the news they were not of particularlnational interest. Trump stole highly classified stuff and stored them at his house. and lied.



big difference here

Kid Berwyn

(14,300 posts)
81. Thank you.
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 05:38 PM
Jan 2023

And after the appropriate agencies find out, as members of a democracy, we’re entitled to know.

lindysalsagal

(20,181 posts)
15. I don't want us at DU to become known for unsubstantiated conspiracy theories
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:09 AM
Jan 2023

Let's not be bottom feeders to truth.

dmr

(28,272 posts)
52. It's crossed my mind, too.
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 10:42 PM
Jan 2023

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this just seems mighty convenient and feeds right into the hands of the jackasses in the House.

It also fits into the ratfucking the right wing loves to do.

It could be an error on President Biden's part, especially during his time as Vice President he was painfully grieving for his beloved son Beau ... both in Beau's illness and in his death.

sarisataka

(18,019 posts)
25. Yes, and he did it personally...
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:30 AM
Jan 2023


Why is it every time there is a news article that reflects poorly on a Dem it has to be a conspiracy?

People make mistakes; a person's character is shown by how they handle and correct those mistakes.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
26. Probably Putin's agents
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:31 AM
Jan 2023

If they can throw an election like they did in 2016, there is no reason to think that they can't break into an office.

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,588 posts)
30. Then why didn't they use this to throw last years election?
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:43 AM
Jan 2023

The docs were found a week before the election.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
31. Clearly they tried
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:48 AM
Jan 2023

But Biden's popularity was to much to overcome.

Obama was very clear right after the 2016 election that Russia interfered. I believe him. Why don't you?

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,588 posts)
32. You do know this isn't 2016, right?
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 10:03 AM
Jan 2023

I never expressed any opinion about the 2016 election, but you accused me of not believing Obama?
Because I think that if someone would have planted documents to be found before the 2022 election and they would have leaked that to the media, like in 2016?
You seem nice.


fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
41. We don't know all the facts yet
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:26 AM
Jan 2023

But the fact that they showed up right before the election certainly is a curious thing.

I suspect that they did leak it to the media, but there wasn't corroboration yet. But that's just my suspicion.


Honestly though - why is it so easy to believe that Biden's team made multiple mistakes of this magnitude vs shenanigans from other side?

Personally, I think it was other side shenanigans especially now that it's they have been found in multiple places.

Just seems unlikely that they would be undetected for so many years until right now as Trump is being investigated.

Polybius

(14,960 posts)
73. Popularity in the mid 40's caused Democrats to overcome the fizzled Red Wave?
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 12:52 PM
Jan 2023

It was mostly Roe and them running bad candidates that caused them to lose.

onenote

(41,997 posts)
28. No.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 09:35 AM
Jan 2023

Sure, a bunch of "trump operatives", without anyone noticing, somehow took possession of classified documents from the Obama administration, and got them into Biden-related offices and into locked, secure storage. And then they let this go unnoticed until Biden's lawyers would find them, somehow knowing it would be in November 2022, but not leaking the fact that there were such documents before the November midterms so the information would have maximum impact.

Oh...and it was George Santos and Herschel Walker that came up with the plan.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
42. Well they managed to influence an entire national election in 2016
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:27 AM
Jan 2023

Yet couldn't plant a box of documents in a rarely used office? (on edit a garage in Wilmington?)

Gotta remember. It's not just Trump and his minions.

It's trump and Putin's minions too.

mahatmakanejeeves

(56,359 posts)
33. Not everything you don't like is a conspiracy... You... you know that, right?
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 10:04 AM
Jan 2023


Hat tip, crusaderrabbit at Joe.My.God.


And yes, I went looking for this just to post it here.
 

GenXer47

(1,204 posts)
35. a better question: if he COULD, would he?
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 10:27 AM
Jan 2023

And the answer of course is, YES!
He was president. He knows how the system works. Of course there has to be a general audit of classified files going on - I'd be astonished if there weren't.
We are trained in this country, by our legal system and all those Perry Mason episodes, to always grant the benefit of the doubt. But with Trump, we must be more like a parole board: we give nothing but the DETRIMENT of the doubt to repeat offenders like him.
If he can pull it off, he will!

MichMan

(11,467 posts)
38. Just seeing reports that the second batch was found in Wilmington in President Biden's garage.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 10:37 AM
Jan 2023

How would Trump have been able to get in there?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
43. You don't think that Putin's agents could get into a garage?
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:28 AM
Jan 2023

Remember. It's not just Trump and his team.

It's Trump and his team and Putins team too.

MichMan

(11,467 posts)
44. I would assume that the President's home has adequate security.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:32 AM
Jan 2023

If Russian agents can break in undetected, that is a pretty big concern. Is that what you think happened?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
45. Well I don't think Biden put them there
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:35 AM
Jan 2023

After January 6th, not everyone is convinced that the SS is 100% trustworthy.

The Russians have just as big of an operative network as we do.

MichMan

(11,467 posts)
46. That may be what AG Garland is going to announce later today
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:43 AM
Jan 2023

A full blown investigation of the Secret Service by the DOJ.

Polybius

(14,960 posts)
74. Then why isn't Biden saying that he didn't put them there?
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 12:55 PM
Jan 2023

I'd imagine if it was a set up he'd have said it.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
57. How did they get the documents from the National Archives in the first place?
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:03 PM
Jan 2023

And if they were held there, as the law requires, why does the NA have no record of them? There is very little thought behind these conspiracy theories.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
78. National Archives
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 03:29 PM
Jan 2023

Doesn’t maintain and track every classified document. Hundreds, if not thousands, are handled daily and then destroyed.

It’s not like every copy of every document goes to the archives and then people check them out.

These are often work products that people copy , use, then file away or destroy.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
79. Classified documents aren't checked out period
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 03:36 PM
Jan 2023

They are stored for safe keeping. They most certainly have a comprehensive inventory system---all libraries do. And NARA is not just any library.
None of this explains how you believe the documents were planted. If they weren't inventoried, how could nefarious sources find them?

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
80. Who said I believe they were planted?
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 04:38 PM
Jan 2023

I don’t believe for a second that they were planted. Working with classified documents daily, I can absolutely see how they inadvertently ended up where they did. It’s careless handling, and unfortunately, it happens every day.

GoCubsGo

(32,031 posts)
49. Yes, and I just heard a lot of what was there was condolence letters.
Thu Jan 12, 2023, 11:56 AM
Jan 2023

Biden was likely dealing with the death of his son when those documents found their way into his garage. No doubt he was preoccupied, so it's understandable that could have overlooked a few things. That being said, Trump wouldn't be able to get into Biden's garage without notice, but one of his Secret Service toadies sure as hell could have. One of 'em got into the White House residence with no reason to be there, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that one planted documents in places Biden had or currently occupies.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
56. Most impiortantly
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:01 PM
Jan 2023

How would they have been able to get the documents out of the National Archives to plan them? It's easy enough to see if the NA has any records of holding them in their collections. I expect they do not.

The obvious explanation is simple oversight, and the conspiracy theories only make Democrats look bad---very, very bad. There is no space between this reaction than when the Trumpsters claimed the same thing. I think this shit should be banned from DU along with chemtrails.

Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mister Ed

(5,816 posts)
53. The Special Counsel investigation will likely reveal how and why the documents came to be there.
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 10:51 PM
Jan 2023

I'm in no position to know the answer myself.

Kennah

(13,718 posts)
54. I'm thinking there are classified docs at every ex-President's home or office
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 10:51 PM
Jan 2023

I can understand having them and bringing them with you, even if you know you shouldn't because you're doing the nation's business. When it's time to go you return them, but things get missed. I'm still seeing a vast chasm between Trump's and Biden's handling of the issue.

ecstatic

(32,415 posts)
62. You're probably right. The problem began
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:22 PM
Jan 2023

When his overzealous lawyers turned in documents that weren't even being asked for. Just shred them and move on ffs. Sorry not sorry. As long as it's not in a public place like Mar-A-Lago where enemies to the US regularly visit.

ripcord

(4,943 posts)
76. Shredding classified documnets would be a major crime
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 02:08 PM
Jan 2023

I can't understand why so many people are down on Biden's lawyers for doing the right thing, even the President said he approved of what they did. Not turning the documents in and shredding them would put Biden into Trump territory, luckily our President has more class than many.

iemanja

(52,983 posts)
55. No
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 10:57 PM
Jan 2023

And this argument sounds no more logical than when the Trumpsters made it. It's an embarrassment to the party.

ecstatic

(32,415 posts)
61. Lol. I love a good conspiracy but this is a bit much
Sat Jan 14, 2023, 11:19 PM
Jan 2023

But I will say that anything's possible when TFG is involved. He is so desperate and crazy.

Happy Hoosier

(6,799 posts)
70. No likely...
Sun Jan 15, 2023, 08:38 AM
Jan 2023

Look... the Veep sees thousands of classified docs. Most of them are daily brief kinda things.

Biden's office got a little sloppy. It isn't the end of the world. Does it look a little bad given the Trump mess? Sure. And it's politically inconvenient. But Biden was and is not attempting to illegally retain them and is not claiming they are his.

Everybody needs to cool their jets.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Did Trump plant those Bid...