Did Trump plant those Biden documents at the 1st and 2nd locations?

[fescuerescue]

Probably not Trump personally, but one of his operatives?

This just seems way to out there and convenient for Trump. I think that as they investigate Trump, this needs to be examined closely.

Also as they examine the Biden documents, any fingerprints should be checked out to see what connection the handlers have with Trumps team.

[brooklynite]

1. No. Next question?

Sloppy record-keeping is far more likely.

[fightforfreedom]

5. I agree, a Biden staff member probably screwed up.

[agingdem]

17. FWIW..I think the MAL Trump documents theft

was never #1 on the DOJ charge list...it was always the insurrection..a sitting president plots a multi pronged coup and incites an insurrection, aided and abetted by MAGA members of congress, unhinged far right lawyers, White House staff/aides/advisors, the Secret Service/heads of government agencies/state officials/the wife of a Supreme Court justice,/paramilitary militias...mishandling documents may be a rare occurrence but it does happen, overthrowing the government of the United States to stay in power does not...

[Sanity Claws]

22. But it would also require sloppy record-keeping by National Archives

not only Biden's office.
That is why I have questions too.

[PatSeg]

39. Yes, why did no one at

the National Archives realize the documents weren't returned? What kind of system do they have?

[Ms. Toad]

51. The National Archives probably never had these particular documents.

They don't check information out to the president's or vice president's like a library. They receive it from them. I don't know all of the details, but I know that while one administration is in office, it has custody of the records - and the obligation to document it. It isn't a respository or index of all classified information

Not sure why so many people think there is a master list of classified information to check against so that they could determine exactly what is missing and who has hold of it.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

66. Exactly

I was just about to post this. It’s not like all of this stuff goes to the National Archives and people get it as they need it.

I work with classified info every single day, and the copies I use will never end up in the National Arxhives, because they go into a burn bag when I’m done with them.

[Blues Heron]

2. The timing does seem suspicious to say the least

[iemanja]

58. How is that?

What timing?

[Lovie777]

3. No .....

[Better Days Ahoy]

4. I agree with Brooklynite

I read/heard accounts where most Administrations have some clean-up here and there.
Funny how no one's finding any documents specifically from Obama -- just from Biden who's in the stronger political position.

[iemanja]

59. The Presidents have a more rigorous process

because they are covered by the Presidential Records Act. The VP's records are left to him and his staff.

[Better Days Ahoy]

69. Thank you for the clarity. Appreciate that.

Looking for the finding of staff oversight.
I know I forget stuff when I'm packing to move, too.

[lark]

6. Exactly my thought.

Only I wondered if one of Putin's operatives did this to hurt Biden and help tfg and co. hurt Ukraine and help Pootey.

[fescuerescue]

50. And Trump had access to these documents for 4 years

Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2023, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Wouldn't be the first time that trump delivered material to the Russia.

[iemanja]

60. How did Trump get the records out of the National Archives, where they belong?

And why doesn't the National Archives have a record of them in their holdings?

[fescuerescue]

71. Well all we know right now. Is that the National Archives doesn't have them

But I suspect that if anyone could get them out - it would be the President of the United States.

Documents HAVE walked out the national archives in the past. It's not even a rare event.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/national-archives-missing-documents-cases-before-trump/

[iemanja]

77. That would mean NARA would have to have records of having processed the documents

and we haven't heard they have.

[fescuerescue]

82. for sure

But I seriously doubt that we have heard everything yet.

[fescuerescue]

83. for sure

But I seriously doubt that we have heard everything yet.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Hanlon's razor

Hanlon's razor is an adage or rule of thumb that states "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

[PCIntern]

27. I like that a lot. Thanks!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. You're welcome.

[LiberalFighter]

8. The docs were discovered by Biden's people.

[fescuerescue]

9. But that doesn't explain how they got there

I just don't see Biden's people transporting them to two separate locations and then only to be discovered once Trump is being investigated for the same thing.

Seems more likely that Putin or Biden's people put them there recently.

[Thomas Hurt]

10. I think the Pig's behavior set Biden's people off on a prudent doc check...

and they found stuff and they notified the archives. There needs to be an investigation to see how and why they were there.

Still isn't anywhere close to the Pig's refusing to return docs because he thinks he owns the Presidency like a piece of real estate.

[Emile]

11. Why has Trump been so vocal the past few weeks

about when will the feds search Biden properties for documents?

It's not a stretch to question this!

[Hugh_Lebowski]

14. The first one was like Nov 12 they found them

Could also be a mole who let Trump in on the finding.

[Emile]

19. and the same mole could be the one

who planted them. Who knows what the real truth is, but I don't think Joe Biden as long as he has been in politics would be this careless with top secret docs. This whole story stinks!

[AZSkiffyGeek]

29. Nov 2

It was before the election. If it was planted, why didn’t the ratfuckers trying the same thing they did with Weiners laptop and Hillary?
I think if they were planted we would have heard a lot sooner, probably from Rudy.

[Thomas Hurt]

47. "Feds" didn't find them as I understand it, his staff did.

There has been no search warrant for any Biden locations because they notified the archives as they were supposed to.

The Pig thinks he owns those documents, hell the whole presidency. He did the "deal" he "bought" the presidency and he wasn't done with it. The Pig refused to turn them over. Lied about having them.

[samnsara]

12. when the archives noticed docs were missing they simply asked for them back from trump...

..Only after he lied, moved them about and tried to hide them did he get into trouble. Theres no intent on joes part and it was stated in the news they were not of particularlnational interest. Trump stole highly classified stuff and stored them at his house. and lied.



big difference here

[Scrivener7]

13. Who knows? Certainly no one here.

[Kid Berwyn]

81. Thank you.

And after the appropriate agencies find out, as members of a democracy, we’re entitled to know.

[lindysalsagal]

15. I don't want us at DU to become known for unsubstantiated conspiracy theories

Let's not be bottom feeders to truth.

[Scrivener7]

24. When dealing with tfg, there is no conspiracy I would not at least rule out.

[JanLip]

16. Agree!!

I agree with you. Too suspicious. Too convenient.

[Chakaconcarne]

18. Certainly worth ruling out if it hasn't been already....

[malaise]

20. This crossed my mind

only because it’s King Con the Slobfather.

[niyad]

21. Exactly.

[dmr]

52. It's crossed my mind, too.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this just seems mighty convenient and feeds right into the hands of the jackasses in the House.

It also fits into the ratfucking the right wing loves to do.

It could be an error on President Biden's part, especially during his time as Vice President he was painfully grieving for his beloved son Beau ... both in Beau's illness and in his death.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

23. I'm not ruling it out.

[sarisataka]

25. Yes, and he did it personally...

Why is it every time there is a news article that reflects poorly on a Dem it has to be a conspiracy?

People make mistakes; a person's character is shown by how they handle and correct those mistakes.

[fescuerescue]

26. Probably Putin's agents

If they can throw an election like they did in 2016, there is no reason to think that they can't break into an office.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

30. Then why didn't they use this to throw last years election?

The docs were found a week before the election.

[fescuerescue]

31. Clearly they tried

But Biden's popularity was to much to overcome.

Obama was very clear right after the 2016 election that Russia interfered. I believe him. Why don't you?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

32. You do know this isn't 2016, right?

I never expressed any opinion about the 2016 election, but you accused me of not believing Obama?
Because I think that if someone would have planted documents to be found before the 2022 election and they would have leaked that to the media, like in 2016?
You seem nice.

[fescuerescue]

41. We don't know all the facts yet

But the fact that they showed up right before the election certainly is a curious thing.

I suspect that they did leak it to the media, but there wasn't corroboration yet. But that's just my suspicion.


Honestly though - why is it so easy to believe that Biden's team made multiple mistakes of this magnitude vs shenanigans from other side?

Personally, I think it was other side shenanigans especially now that it's they have been found in multiple places.

Just seems unlikely that they would be undetected for so many years until right now as Trump is being investigated.

[Polybius]

73. Popularity in the mid 40's caused Democrats to overcome the fizzled Red Wave?

It was mostly Roe and them running bad candidates that caused them to lose.

[sarisataka]

34. *sigh*

[onenote]

28. No.

Sure, a bunch of "trump operatives", without anyone noticing, somehow took possession of classified documents from the Obama administration, and got them into Biden-related offices and into locked, secure storage. And then they let this go unnoticed until Biden's lawyers would find them, somehow knowing it would be in November 2022, but not leaking the fact that there were such documents before the November midterms so the information would have maximum impact.

Oh...and it was George Santos and Herschel Walker that came up with the plan.

[fescuerescue]

42. Well they managed to influence an entire national election in 2016

Yet couldn't plant a box of documents in a rarely used office? (on edit a garage in Wilmington?)

Gotta remember. It's not just Trump and his minions.

It's trump and Putin's minions too.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. Not everything you don't like is a conspiracy... You... you know that, right?

Hat tip, crusaderrabbit at Joe.My.God.

2 years ago
https://www.joemygod.com/2021/04/gop-keynoter-george-floyds-murder-was-planned/#comment-5358077420

And yes, I went looking for this just to post it here.

[GenXer47]

35. a better question: if he COULD, would he?

And the answer of course is, YES!
He was president. He knows how the system works. Of course there has to be a general audit of classified files going on - I'd be astonished if there weren't.
We are trained in this country, by our legal system and all those Perry Mason episodes, to always grant the benefit of the doubt. But with Trump, we must be more like a parole board: we give nothing but the DETRIMENT of the doubt to repeat offenders like him.
If he can pull it off, he will!

[Kaleva]

37. No

My guess is some staffer screwed up.

[MichMan]

38. Just seeing reports that the second batch was found in Wilmington in President Biden's garage.

How would Trump have been able to get in there?

[onenote]

40. Roger Stone disguised as Jill Biden got in.

[fescuerescue]

43. You don't think that Putin's agents could get into a garage?

Remember. It's not just Trump and his team.

It's Trump and his team and Putins team too.

[MichMan]

44. I would assume that the President's home has adequate security.

If Russian agents can break in undetected, that is a pretty big concern. Is that what you think happened?

[fescuerescue]

45. Well I don't think Biden put them there

After January 6th, not everyone is convinced that the SS is 100% trustworthy.

The Russians have just as big of an operative network as we do.

[MichMan]

46. That may be what AG Garland is going to announce later today

A full blown investigation of the Secret Service by the DOJ.

[Polybius]

74. Then why isn't Biden saying that he didn't put them there?

I'd imagine if it was a set up he'd have said it.

[iemanja]

57. How did they get the documents from the National Archives in the first place?

And if they were held there, as the law requires, why does the NA have no record of them? There is very little thought behind these conspiracy theories.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

67. It doesn't work that way n/t

[iemanja]

68. How does it work?

Do enlighten me.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

78. National Archives

Doesn’t maintain and track every classified document. Hundreds, if not thousands, are handled daily and then destroyed.

It’s not like every copy of every document goes to the archives and then people check them out.

These are often work products that people copy , use, then file away or destroy.

[iemanja]

79. Classified documents aren't checked out period

They are stored for safe keeping. They most certainly have a comprehensive inventory system---all libraries do. And NARA is not just any library.
None of this explains how you believe the documents were planted. If they weren't inventoried, how could nefarious sources find them?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. Who said I believe they were planted?

I don’t believe for a second that they were planted. Working with classified documents daily, I can absolutely see how they inadvertently ended up where they did. It’s careless handling, and unfortunately, it happens every day.

[GoCubsGo]

49. Yes, and I just heard a lot of what was there was condolence letters.

Biden was likely dealing with the death of his son when those documents found their way into his garage. No doubt he was preoccupied, so it's understandable that could have overlooked a few things. That being said, Trump wouldn't be able to get into Biden's garage without notice, but one of his Secret Service toadies sure as hell could have. One of 'em got into the White House residence with no reason to be there, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that one planted documents in places Biden had or currently occupies.

[iemanja]

56. Most impiortantly

How would they have been able to get the documents out of the National Archives to plan them? It's easy enough to see if the NA has any records of holding them in their collections. I expect they do not.

The obvious explanation is simple oversight, and the conspiracy theories only make Democrats look bad---very, very bad. There is no space between this reaction than when the Trumpsters claimed the same thing. I think this shit should be banned from DU along with chemtrails.

[MichMan]

63. Nearly one third of DU poll responders believe they were planted.

[link:https://democraticunderground.com/100217555889|

[iemanja]

64. Yes, I saw that

Disappointing.

[Mister Ed]

53. The Special Counsel investigation will likely reveal how and why the documents came to be there.

I'm in no position to know the answer myself.

[Kennah]

54. I'm thinking there are classified docs at every ex-President's home or office

I can understand having them and bringing them with you, even if you know you shouldn't because you're doing the nation's business. When it's time to go you return them, but things get missed. I'm still seeing a vast chasm between Trump's and Biden's handling of the issue.

[ecstatic]

62. You're probably right. The problem began

When his overzealous lawyers turned in documents that weren't even being asked for. Just shred them and move on ffs. Sorry not sorry. As long as it's not in a public place like Mar-A-Lago where enemies to the US regularly visit.

[ripcord]

76. Shredding classified documnets would be a major crime

I can't understand why so many people are down on Biden's lawyers for doing the right thing, even the President said he approved of what they did. Not turning the documents in and shredding them would put Biden into Trump territory, luckily our President has more class than many.

[iemanja]

55. No

And this argument sounds no more logical than when the Trumpsters made it. It's an embarrassment to the party.

[ecstatic]

61. Lol. I love a good conspiracy but this is a bit much

But I will say that anything's possible when TFG is involved. He is so desperate and crazy.

[Tribetime]

65. No way those are 10 yrs old

Where would he get them and if he did......they would find out trace it back

[Happy Hoosier]

70. No likely...

Look... the Veep sees thousands of classified docs. Most of them are daily brief kinda things.

Biden's office got a little sloppy. It isn't the end of the world. Does it look a little bad given the Trump mess? Sure. And it's politically inconvenient. But Biden was and is not attempting to illegally retain them and is not claiming they are his.

Everybody needs to cool their jets.

[Emile]

72. Did Trump orchestrate an insurrection against the United States?

[SYFROYH]

75. I think its more likely staffers were careless when they packed things up.

No conspiracy needed.