Do not... DO NOT Defend Libertarians to me at Democratic Underground.

[onehandle]

They are right-wing fanatics who pretend to be open-minded as some sort of con. Nothing more.
__________________________

Time to tell any Democrats you know to fuck off and die

Express your hatred, shame, and outright disgust with anyone you know who voted Democrat

However, for me, I'm choosing another rather unique path; a personal boycott, if you will. Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt

I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted 'O'. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats.

Do you work for someone who voted for Obama? Quit your job. Co-workers who voted for Obama. Simply don't talk to them in the workplace, unless your boss instructs you too for work-related only purposes. Have clients who voted Democrat? Call them up this morning and tell them to take their business elsewhere's.

Have a neighbor who votes for Obama? You could take a crap on their lawn. Then again, probably not a good idea since it would be technically illegal to do this. But you could have your dog take care of business. Not your fault if he just happens to choose that particular spot.

And start your boycott of your Democrat friends and family today. Like this morning. First thing you can do, very easy, is to un-friend all Democrats from your Facebook account.

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html

[FLSurfer]

1. You wouldn't think it needed to be said.

Is it just the "legalize pot" thing that attracts Democrats to this group of hate mongers?
I agree with you completely.

[Volaris]

34. Not sure...there IS such a thing politically as a LEFT-Libertatian...

but for me, anyone who claims the latter without PROOP of the former, is generally regarded as an asshole of the tightest caliber.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. Sure is, because people are not binary objects, to be pigeon-holed for convenient hating of them.

Political opinions can be all over the map.

Politics is at least two dimensional (fiscal liberal/conservative & social liberal/conservative), but at the very least those dimensions are degrees of liberalism and conservatism, shades of gray, multiple scales of tones. There are other dimensions too, like authoritarianism, statist, corporatism, religiosity vs. secularism, etc.

You can put an idea (if it is tightly defined) on a point on a map like that, but not people.

People hold multiple ideas, and shades of beliefs, and thank goodness for that. They are not stamped out by cookie-cutters. They can't be pigeonholed by thinking people who accept and honor the diversity of human experience and thought.

For example, people can be both pro single-payer health insurance and anti-government subsidies to oil companies. But those two positions are antagonistic on the scale of big government versus small government.

So forget about pigeonholing people on a dimension or a two-dimensional map, unless the purpose is to set up straw men and knock them down or set up easy targets for hating at.

[pnwmom]

94. But no one is a progressive who believes in right wing economic policies,

as all libertarians do.

People can't be pigeon-holed, but policies can be defined. And the economic policies of every form of "libertarianism" do NOT add up to any definition of progressivism.

[freshwest]

100. +1

[Bernardo de La Paz]

106. It is a mistake to think that people are all one thing and nothing of another.

Get rid of binary thinking. It is useless.

The universe is not painted in black and white with no gray and no color. Many times colored objects (like the images on your computer screen) are made of mixtures of colors and are not purely (say) a yellow, but might be a dappled mixture of red and green.

[pnwmom]

151. I don't think PEOPLE are all one thing and nothing of another.

But I know that LIBERTARIANISM has, at its central core, a right-wing economic philosophy that isn't compatible with progressivism.

A person might support LGBT and marijuana, but if that person also believes in right wing economic policies, that person isn't a progressive, any more than Ron Paul is a progressive.

[ieoeja]

126. I used to consider myself a Libertarian. And I did not support Rightist economic policy.

Rightist economic policy does not work. When theory and reality do not jibe, it is time to drop reality.

As I got older and more experienced, I came to realize that Rightist economic policy does not necessarily fit Libertarian theory anyway. I would say that I believe in natural rights. And there is nothing natural about our economy.

In nature nobody goes hungry if there is enough food. We have people go hungry because they lack money. Nothing natural there.

Technology has made it possible to make more stuff we need, and even want, in less hours by fewer people. In a natural economy we would all be working less. Instead, they keep telling us we are going to have to work longer.


The Right owns the Libertarian Party. But not Libertarian philosophy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. Yes, left on economic and political issues, laissez-faire on personal issues

Great combination.

The damage Libertarian Party types do is in the economic and political sphere.

[Orrex]

90. How is that Libertarian?

"left on economic and political issues, laissez-faire on personal issues"

Why identify that position as Libertarian when it's simply a straightforward Progressive model?

What's the purpose in blurring the terminology, except perhaps to identify with better-known Right-Libertarians?

[pnwmom]

99. Libertarians are never left on economic and political issues.

The essence of libertarianism is a right-wing economic policy. It just comes in two flavors: right wing economic policies combined with prochoice, pro-LGBT, etc, views (the "classic" version); and right wing economic policies combined with anti-abortion views (Paul Rand libertarianism)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

84. "Not sure...there IS such a thing politically as a LEFT-Libertatian..."

Sure there is. Gandhi is a good example.

These people however are just anti-government in general. Mostly over the idea of taxes. You could see to it they pay nothing and they'd still claim their taxes are too high.

[Orrex]

153. I have to quibble with that

Unless Gandhi self-identified as "Left-Libertarian," than this kind of post mortem relabeling is the same thing that Mormons do when they retro-baptize people into the fold. Likewise, Right-Libertarians love to reach back through history to scoop up all of the towering figures that they claim were actual Libertarians, Thomas Jefferson being among them.

I don't buy it. It smacks of desperation and deception, even if the intent is pure.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

155. Google "Political Compass".

[Orrex]

158. Seen it. Talk to me after Gandhi does his own test.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

159. It fits.

It's a matter of trust in the people not to run amok. To the left is human rights and to the right is property rights. (corporate power is self regulating by market forces crap)

Gandhi was anti-authoritarian and anti-greed.

Our Right Libertarians are all about money. They rail about the FED and GOLD.

[Orrex]

160. It should be sufficient to describe Gandhi as he was

The post mortem attaching of labels is simply wishful thinking and an attempt to gobble up history's celebrities in service of your cause.

It's disingenuous and speculative, just like when Mormons and Right-Libertarians do it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

161. No. It's based on where his views fall on the political spectrum...

It's like Stalin falls on Authoritarian Left and Hitler on Authoritarian Right.

[Orrex]

164. It's propaganda, to give your own political self-label credibility. It's exploitive & self-serving

Call yourself whatever you want. When the Mahatma personally steps into line along with you, I'll believe it.

Short of that, you're assigning him a label that I don't believe he would accept.

The most you can say is that he espoused beliefs that are consistent with your conception of Left-Libertarianism, but that's very different from what you're proposing.

You would do yourself a favor by abandoning the "Libertarian" label entirely, because you're simply aligning yourself with assholes, and people are naturally going to wonder why.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

165. On the political compass if you go too far to the left it's communism and to the right is fascism...

Most people are not on the extreme edges.

[Orrex]

166. I'm amazed that they were able to get all those people to take the online survey

I'd have thought that Stalin and Berlusconi would have been too busy.


Unless you're posting other people's projections about this historical figures, of course. But that would be disingenuous.


So the actual statement should not be "Gandhi was Left-Libertarian" but should in fact be "decades after his death, an informal online survey identifies certain, highly limited aspects of his character as consistent with the modern formulation of Left-Libertarianism."


It's foolish to cling to a term that's been wholly co-opted by by the hard, radical Right and pretend that the term actually retains its objective definition stripped of all connotation.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

167. "I'd have thought that Stalin and Berlusconi would have been too busy."

Naw, Stalin was just laying around for years, everybody saw that.

[pnwmom]

92. Not true. It's just liberal wrapping paper covering right wing economics.

There are two versions of libertarian economics. The type that comes wrapped in prochoice, pro-LGBT, etc; and the type that comes wrapped in anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc.

But underneath the wrappings, it's all about money.

[Scootaloo]

120. "Left libertarian" = Pretentious hipster liberal

Really, that's all it is. The left is already "libertarian" on every issue these guys consider. All they accomplish by calling themselves "left-libertarians," is looking like that douchebag who tells you "Yeah, I listen to lots of music, but you've probably never heard of it..."

[ieoeja]

127. Left Libertarian opposes smoking bans, seat belt laws, etc.

I don't believe the Left is already "libertarian" on those issues.


I was orginally Left on economic policy because (1) the morality of economics, and (2) Rightist economic policy fails miserably. Philosophically I became easier with that inconsistency when I realized that there is nothing natural about our economic system (I go into this further in another post upthread). So I don't think it is actually inconsistent.

[Scootaloo]

128. So like a liberal, only obsessed with trivial shit

I'm glad there's someone out there watching out for my freedom to fly headfirst through my windshield if I feel like it. Thank god, too.

[TBF]

157. There are libertarian/anarchist communists -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism

Anarchist communism (also known as anarcho-communism and occasionally as free communism or libertarian communism) is a theory of anarchism which advocates the abolition of the state, capitalism and private property (while retaining respect for personal property), and in favor of common ownership of the means of production, direct democracy and a horizontal network of voluntary associations and workers' councils with production and consumption based on the guiding principle: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

I sort of fall into that category and you'll find a handful of others on this site. Most belong to groups like Occupy or their local socialist or communist parties if anything. I'm actually registered as a democrat because I live in Texas where socialists rarely even make it onto the ballot.

You will not find us voting for folks like Gary Johnson - those are libertarians who believe in Ayn Rand philosophy - they are not into unions, direct democracy, or workers' councils in any way.

[Rockyj]

113. Legalize Pot...

and prositution! Here in Washington State the Libertarians mostly live in rural areas, drink a lot & smoke a lot of pot, work in contruction jobs or logging & mechanics. They enjoy killing things and they're basically, white rednecks.
Sadly, this is portrait of my son-in-law!
But aren't the Koch Bro's Libertaraians?

[bvar22]

118. "legalize pot" (end the failed War on Drugs)

also:

*End Foreign Wars and reduce the size of our Military/Pentagon/War Industry to a size appropriate for the mission of Defending the US ONLY.

*Dismantle the Police State and the "Unitary Executive", and restore our Constitutional Balances & Protections

*Audit the FED, and establish some transparency and accountability to The People.

THOSE issues I find particularly attractive,and I wish the Democratic Party would incorporate them into the Party Platform.
I'm glad there is SOMEBODY out there talking about those issues and trying to inject them into the National Dialog and Awareness,
because you will NOT hear about them from either of the two dominant political parties.

That said,
the Libertarian Economic Platform is insane.
There ARE countries in the World that use this Libertarian model, like Somalia
They are NOT nice places to live.

Take the good.
Leave the rest.

[brooklynite]

2. ...because isolating yourself in a self-reinforcing message bubble worked so well for the GOP.

[NoMoreWarNow]

26. exactly!

[HankyDub]

86. right wing libertarians are poisonous

they appeal to people with tolerance for gay people and drug use and their opposition to war, but the rest of their ideology is extremely dangerous. You know the Koch brothers are libertarians, right?

[beachbumbob]

3. to me, don't respond in kind

with same actions....you can't and still think of yourself as a good democrat, liberal, progressive or christian. More anger doesn't overcome ignorance and prejudice

never has, never will.

but will we will not be overcome by these people either.......

[The Second Stone]

83. Well said

thank you

[lalalu]

4. This is not new.

Libertarians and new progressives are both charlatan groups.

Libertarians are racists who refuse to face their racism and hide behind supposedly free will policies. They are a bunch of phonies. They believe in laws and government intervention for their rightwing views only. To hell with everyone else. Ron Paul has been getting government handouts and living on government benefits for decades and the same with his son. Hypocrites.

New members of the progressive movement are Reagan democrats. They can't own up to the fact they helped Reagan destroy many progressive reforms and the country. Think Arianna Huffington who now behaves like she was the queen of the progressive movement and never knew Reagan.

Both groups are big mouth charlatans pretending to be something they aren't.

[leftyohiolib]

8. "Both groups are big mouth charlatans pretending to be something they aren't."-- love it .. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

5. The libertarian vote may have been the deciding factor in several races in NH.

I say keep up the good work right wing libertarians!

[onehandle]

6. Oh, of course. I encourage all wingers to go third party.

And right off a cliff.

[treestar]

107. Yes, for a while the Gary Johnson vote in FL

was greater than the difference between Mitt and the President.

[Liberalynn]

141. +1

[Barack_America]

80. The Libertarian vote for President in FL pretty much matches Obama's margin.

Without them, Obama would be winning by less than 10,000 votes, well within the margins for an automatic recount.

[Buzz Clik]

7. No. Libertarians are not necessarily right wing fanatics.

You don't fully understand all their points.

[onehandle]

11. You're thinking of Libertarianism. 'Libertarians' commonly have little to do with that.

They think they do, but in practice, they are just crazier and more hateful, right-wingers.

[redwitch]

13. Libertarians are too ashamed to call themselves Republicans.

And want to smoke pot.

[Chorophyll]

29. Basically. :) nt

[BlueCaliDem]

47. Yep. That's pretty much it. eom

[sadbear]

57. Most libertarians I know are atheist republicans.

The christian fundamentalist side of the republican party keeps them from calling themselves republicans, but they practically agree with everything else the party stands for.

[meeshrox]

98. That's my experience as well. n/t

[abelenkpe]

43. +1000 nt

[Johonny]

140. I agree

classical political science terms and actual modern day usage of those terms are not generally heavily connected. While I think many DUers think they are classical libertarian when it comes to personal liberty... generally they aren't. Getting rid of the fairness Doctrine and citizen united were getting rid of restrictions on free speech yet are vastly unpopular at the DU. In general without a frame work in which to secure civil liberties, they become meaningless. Anarchy does not make you freer as slight unbalances in the system tend to drown out your personal freedom. Thus considering yourself slightly authoritarian isn't in my view a bad thing. If your voting for Prop 37, you aren't a libertarian.

I know people that think they are modern libertarians because they agree with Ron Paul on Pot and the War. But abortion, racism, food inspection, social security, medicare... needless to say they don't REALLY agree with him at all.

So many people who think they are classically libertarian, or modern libertarian are actually neither. The term is basically meaningless accept in purely academic terms. Reality is a sliding scale of political positions and most people change their views as situations change. Idiots, like Grover Northquist, have the same position no matter the situation.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

9. Agreed. I don't know why some of our self-admitted libertarian members are allowed to stay. nt

[bowens43]

10. libertarians are nothing more the hard core conservatives who lack a moral comapss.....

not that I agree with conservatives morality, I don't , as misguided as they are , unlike libertarians they do have morals.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. They are worse than anarchists because of the way they

have been able to infiltrate both parties. They were the Mayberry Machiavellis of the Bush era.

[Gman]

14. LOL! Won't be too long before someone kicks his ass!

But he won't get it. So it'd have to happen a couple more times before he comes back to his senses, if possible.

[Major Nikon]

65. Sounds more like an internet whiner that would never say these things to someone's face

In other words, he's just another pathetic asshole with sour grapes who craves online attention because everyone he knows in person is tired of listening to their incoherent spewage.

I might take these shitbags a bit more seriously if they were more committed to their cause. Self-immolation sounds like a great suggestion for this shitbag.

[beerandjesus]

93. Amen.

He wouldn't be talking about behaving that way if he hadn't been an asshole to begin with.

[smirkymonkey]

136. +10,000

Thank YOU! I agree with everything that you said. Also, I am amazed at the extreme immaturity of the Libertarian whiner in the OP. Christ, grow UP dude! Do you really think anybody gives a shit if you un-friend them or ignore them?

[graham4anything]

15. PLUS zillion. Anyone not voting for the democrats are republicantealibertarians all one and the same

There is only one choice til the angry rightwing racists no longer can vote.
They are all members in good standing of the old John Birch society

Btw-I would not be friends to start off with with that poster.
(reminds me of the haters on the old kerry offshoot that said libertarians were friends of liberals.

Yeah,sure, sell it elsewhere and start with Ron Paul and his friend David Duke.
(and never forget what Jorg JHaider tried to rekindle in Austria til drinking and driving 200 on the autobahn stopped him

[CreekDog]

16. Libertarians: The "I got mine" party of mostly white people

yeah, I said it.

I got mine, now don't ask me for taxes even though yours helped me get where I am.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. You Forgot To Mention. . .

. . .that they fully intend to still use the roads they don't want to pay for.
GAC

[Horse with no Name]

124. Exactly. n/t

[quinnox]

18. is it ok if we agree with some of the policy positions

Of libertarianism? Like being anti-war, strongly for civil liberties and against the ever expanding survelliance society, or letting pot be legalized. I hope so.

[53tammy]

25. I agree

The nuts on any side are the ones who get the attention. To judge you must understand the true philosophy and why. To deny that every side has their own weakness is delusional.

[Chorophyll]

32. Those sound like core liberal, Democratic positions to me.

The difference is, the Libertarians only hold those positions because they want to be left alone to do what they want. While Democrats want what's best for everyone.

[Union Scribe]

46. Bingo. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

50. Thank you!

Oh how the Libertarians have infiltrated the progressive movement while being ultra-right Republicans. Pretty clever,though. Sneaky and without moral compass, but still, pretty clever.

[HughBeaumont]

41. If it was just about that, they'd be fine by me.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut when they start talking RepubliRandonomics . . . BYE BYE.

[abelenkpe]

45. Why would you democrats don't want those things?

That stuff is what attracts people to libertarians until they realize all the other ugly craziness that goes with those beliefs.

[sadbear]

60. They're not anti-war.

They're perfectly fine when it's done the way the Constitution says it to do it.

[NCGardenGirl]

19. Amen! Off the charts crazy!

[valerief]

20. I feel that way about Republicans, too. When people say about certain pols, "But he's a good

Republican," I cringe. Any pol who associates him/herself with that party is not a good person and does not have the 99%'s interests at heart.

[Blanks]

21. Don't take this as a defense of libertarians...

I think they're in their own level of hell.

A level of hell where ignorance of economics and politics convinces one that both parties are corrupt and only through the rejection of the two party system will the world be a happy place.

I was surprised at the hatred from the libertarian pages that one of my Facebook friends 'liked'. I expected full-blown conservatives to be disappointed, but I was surprised that the libertarians were so pissed.

The moronic libertarian 'movement' isn't all that old; you would figure that they would expect to be gaining momentum or followers or whatever. They behave more like they actually expected to win.

[KurtNYC]

22. so respond to crazy partisanship with.....crazy intolerant partisanship?

Number of Libertarians elected in 2012: ZERO.

(me thinks thou doth protest too much)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. "Me-me-me" is the guiding principle of Libertarianism

Period.
They believe that they're so wonderful that economic anarchy would automatically make them rise to the top and that only "government" is preventing this.
They believe that anyone who is economically unfortunate deserves it for somehow violating the commandments of the great and all-powerful god Market Forces.
A traditional conservative or a religious right type will donate to disaster relief efforts for Hurricane Sandy. A Libertarian will sniff and say that the victims shouldn't live so close to the ocean.
Note that the only government functions they like are the military, the police, and the courts, the most coercive parts of society and ones that are frequently turned against the starving masses in the Third World.
A lot of the nastiness of today's Republican is due to infiltration by Libertarian ideas. There are a lot of Libertarians in Oregon, and every one I met was a self-important adult version of a materialistic suburban brat. There are a couple of hardcore Libertarians in the Japanese-English translation community. I have never met them and hope that I never do, because their online arrogance and unpleasantness knows no bounds.
Don't be fooled by their stances on drugs, sex, or war, especially the last one. They would happily call out the military against their own people to suppress any hints of economic populism. But THEy don't want to fight, and like all brats, they want to do what they want to do no matter what, whether it's in the realm of economics or personal behavior.
They are NOT our allies.

[laundry_queen]

56. good description. nt

[Mr Dixon]

24. LOL

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2012, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Wow that was pretty much a pointless rant; he could have just said that is he moving off the grid, as if anyone gives a Flying fuck, IMO

[VPStoltz]

27. Their hatred knows no bounds...

I have a brother on Long Island - crushed by the storm.
Couldn't get hold of him for 5 days. When he finally got phone service he called our third bother in Arizona.
Me - no call.

[panzerfaust]

28. ... DO NOT Defend Libertarians to me ...

I always enjoy people who tell me what I can - and cannot - say.

“It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.”
~ Thomas Paine

[FSogol]

30. Haw-haw, the Libertarians are going to make themselves more unlikeable than they already are...

[SemperEadem]

31. he's a real nowhere man

living in his nowhere land... making all his nowhere plans for nobody.

[99Forever]

33. I'm willing to bet...

... there will be some people saying, "Aren't the holidays so much nicer without that asshole being here?"

[JoeyT]

35. About the nicest thing I

can say about them is that they don't suck as badly as Republicans on one or two issues.

The social issues people claim make them different from Republicans really don't. They'll give those up for a tax cut in a heartbeat, which makes them worse than Republicans, not better.

Edited to add: I certainly hope all the libertarians take his advice and go Galt. It would be awesome to not have to listen to them whine for a while.

[politicat]

36. Ya know, if this came across my transom, I think I'd be happy to see the south side

Of that north-bound train of cruelty and self-destruction. If someone is so self-absorbed and deluded by political opinions that they can no longer agree to disagree and is willing to destroy their social network, they're looking for reasons to do so anyway and politics is the convenient scapegoat that allows the future Objectivist Jerky to blame everyone else for zir new isolation.

[Major Nikon]

37. A looneytarian who won't speak to me? I don't see the down side here.

[ET Awful]

38. Libertarians = Republicans who like to get high (or admit that they do anyway). n/t

[WinkyDink]

139. = Democrats who hate to pay taxes.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Libertarians live in magic bubble land.

Where nothing they do will ever effect anyone else, so they must continue to do it.

Fuck em. All of them.

[MineralMan]

40. I imagine that most of the people he's cutting

off will celebrate. Maybe they could have a party. Libertarians are boring and obnoxious.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. Wrong.

They are right-wing fanatics who pretend to be open-minded as some sort of con.

Some libertarians are close-minded right-wing fanatics. Just like some democrats are close-minded left-wing fanatics.

When you prejudge a whole group of people by labelling them, that's prejudice.

People are individuals.

[patrice]

55. People are more or less individuals, some more, some less and like lots of fanatics someLibertarians

are way less individuals, way less in autonomous control of themselves, way more contrary reactionary than average.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

72. Key word about people is always "SOME". nt

[patrice]

76. Yes! & also SOMETIMES, because there is individual variation, within a range, some ranges with more

amplitude and frequency, some with less.

[Hugin]

44. Yet, another Anal Retentive! Man, was Freud correct or was he correct!

But, now I see! I see the light! It's so clear to me! IT'S ALL TRUE! THE MAN WAS A GENIUS!

Some background:

"In Freudian psychology, the anal stage is said to follow the oral stage of infant or early-childhood development. This is a time when an infant's attention moves from oral stimulation to anal stimulation (usually the bowels but occasionally the bladder), usually synchronous with learning to control his or her excretory functions, a time of toilet training. Freud theorized that children who experience conflicts during this period of time may develop "anal" personality traits, namely those associated with a child's efforts at excretory control: orderliness, stubbornness, a compulsion for control."

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness

[patrice]

48. I know a parolee who was trying to make it, who is back inside now because Libertarians used him

and threw him away.

And that's only one of at least 4 people I know who were treated that way and HURT physically and emotionally by Libertarians.

There is someone in my family who has 2-3rd generation relationships to Libertarians, depending upon what you think of his grandmother, who will have absolutely NOTHING to do with them. One of the things that he says about that is that there are too many Libertarians who are Libertarians for one reason and one reason only and that is to do any and all of the drugs they can get their hands on. They are, hence, NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

[rdmtimp]

169. I've always thought that a Libertarian

was just a conservative who liked to smoke weed.

[Jim__]

51. How radical! He's unfriending Democrats on Facebook!

This guy is a clown.

[Ikonoklast]

108. WRONG.

Clowns are almost exclusively Anarcho-Syndicalists.

[TalkingDog]

52. Dennis Kucinich is a right wing fanantic? REALLY?

When you learn to make the necessary subtle distinctions in terminology and usage, I'll consider your screed.

Otherwise, meh.

[cui bono]

119. Dennis Kucinich is not a Libertarian. n/t

[cali]

125. Provide ONE, just one fucking link that suggests that Dennis

is a libertarian of any kind.

Clue: HE IS NOT.

[Fumesucker]

53. All Democrats are responsible for the stupidity of any given Democrat

Right?

[4th law of robotics]

162. I think that's fair

any movement consisting of millions of people can be easily judged by a single persons comment on the internet.

Every movement is batshit insane, racist, and has a poor grasp of spelling/grammar.

[obamanut2012]

54. Everyone I know is a RWer

They remind me of homophobes who don't want to say they are homophobes, so come up with some BS label.

[Pachamama]

58. Read the comments in the blog from Eric Dunderhead-O....scary, angry Mofo...

GOP wasnt radical enough for him....thats why he and others cll themselves "Libertarians"....

[LP2K12]

59. Look up...

Libertarian Democrat.

We exist. Don't alienate people in your party, especially by comparing us with Libertarian Republicans.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. I (like the OP, I assume) was referring to the Libertarian Party, not left-libertarians

Libertarianism in personal behavior is fine; but applied to the economic sphere, it's a recipe for Third World status.

[patrice]

61. Is that a call, by implication, to pressure Democrats out in the work-place? business? or even

fire them if you can?

[forestpath]

62. +1 - the libertarians I know are pro-national security to the point of paranoia.

To the exclusion of all else, including civil rights. They also are the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type even though they all got major assistance themselves. We used to be so close, it's really sad. But even though I know there are other types of libertarians, to me they are all paranoid, selfish, and hypocritical.

[meegbear]

64. I know 3 Libertarians and they're all Mac users ...

What to do. What to do.

[Amaril]

67. Wow, that's quite a tantrum

If I were unlucky enough to be one of his/her friends/family/neighbors, I would read this and start with a little followed by some . Then I would pop round the local pub for for a few with the other unfriended souls and finish it off the day with a good

Anybody with that much childish anger inside of them (and talk about control issues -- "if you don't behave EXACTLY as I dictate, then you are dead to me&quot would not be a good friend to begin with (all take, no give).

[ywcachieve]

68. Libertarians are righties, conservatives.

[Neon2012]

69. Libertarians who feel Democracy is a threat to liberty

have a distorted concept of what liberty is. I'm a Democrat and I love my liberty, as well as the liberty of others.

I'm sure slave-owners felt the Emancipation Proclamation was a serious threat to the freedom to own slaves. The slaves likely didn't see it that way.

[OnionPatch]

130. I keep trying to figure out

What is it in specific that they think denies them liberty? That they have to pay some taxes? Taxes are nothing new. They think paying taxes takes away liberty but its ok to legislate women's reproductive rights? It's ok to deny marriage to certain people? It's ok to put people in prison for smoking pot? I don't see that he's recommending people defriend Republicans yet they are the real thieves of liberty.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

70. Just like Socialists, Anarchists, Liberals & Conservatives, so Libertarians are widely misunderstood

Many people think Socialists are all Communists or worse. Many people label anybody left of Michelle Bachmann a "socialist". Those people make a big mistake.

Many people think Anarchists are all violent extremists or worse. Many people label anybody who wants less corporatism and less oligarchies a Radical Anarchist. Those people make a big mistake.

Many people think that "Liberal" is terrible insult that equates them with freeloaders and welfare cheats. They think they can use it to tar and feather anybody who thinks that government has any role helping someone in need of assistance. Those people make a big mistake.

Many people think that "Conservative" is a terrible insult that equates them with fascists and authoritarian thugs. They think they can use it to tar and feather anybody who thinks that government should spend less money. Those people make a big mistake.

Many people think that Libertarians are uniformly radical sybaritic dissolute hedonists who also want to dynamite government and turn everything over to small and large business, immediately, yesterday, if not sooner. They think that anyone pro-choice and anti-drug-war and anti-taxes is a "libertarian". Those people make a big mistake.

Setting up a cartoon caricature of any grouping based on a radical post by someone adopting a label is easy to do and so is drawing a moustache on it. But hatred and prejudice and bigotry against caricatures doesn't advance debate and understanding. It doesn't matter what direction it comes from or what direction it is aimed at: broad brush labelling is a big mistake.

[liberal_at_heart]

79. I agree

You cannot characterize an entire group by what one or even a few do.

[patrice]

81. It's also, to some degree, a 2-way street. The ones I know completely misunderstand ANY others. nt

[BlueToTheBone]

71. Love this line...

Break up with them without haste. Funny Funny.

[neeksgeek]

73. I dropped my RW friends off Facebook long ago...

But I did it without any sort of ceremony or announcement. Just decided I'd had enough of the hate. Not one of those people has made any effort to get back in touch with me and I'm fine with that.

(I also decided I'd had just about enough of Facebook, after they kept changing it, but that's another issue entirely).

[Pab Sungenis]

74. They think "Atlas Shrugged"

was an instruction manual.

They think that pulling themselves out of society will make it collapse, other than just make us happy.

[patrice]

75. I know a freelance Hemp activist, a fine, effective & dedicated person, who was disrespected &

I think, perhaps, even threatened, by Libertarians around here, because he was not part of their bourgeoisie.

[53tammy]

77. to say libertarians are pro-national security to the point of paranoia

Is FALSE, they are against any actions that exerts force on another and are pacifists. What your right-wing fanatics are is what we call little l"s that pick and choose what they want to believe in.

[Romulox]

78. I think OP either willfully or in confusion conflates the Libertarian Party with "libertarianism".

Not. the. same. thing.

[MzShellG]

82. Thank you! This is NOT Libertarian Underground! nt

[vlyons]

85. Wow, talk about a sore loser

OK, raise you hand if you will miss this guy. Hmmmm no hands showing.

Oh well, good riddance to bad rubbish

[Orrex]

87. k/r. I have never met a Right-aligned Libertarian who wasn't an asshole

And I have never met a Left-aligned Libertarian who was actually a Libertarian.

[freshwest]

104. And I have not met one who wasn't enraged at paying taxes that would go to those he didn't know.

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2012, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Libertarians of the Starve the Beast mentality want government to shrink 'small enough to drown it in the bathtub,' despise. even if they won't admit it, unions and public workers of all kinds. Whrere I live they vote against public school funding, fire departments, public works, parks and police. They got theirs, and to hell with anyone who needs public help and also, they don't want them living in 'their neighborhood.' Their only answer for those in need is charity or the church, so long as they don't have to pay taxes to the whining sick and poor. Those entities can't handle it all, and they know it, but they are not going to be affected. They're aggressive in person, just like the Paulbots and Teabaggers. Correction, they are Paulbots and Teabaggers when they vote.

[Orrex]

112. There is, sadly, a lot of that "I've got mine" thinking here @ DU

I've seen any number of threads that have stated exactly that:

"I paid off my mortgage, so why should anyone else get a break?"

"I can pay to support my kids, so why should anyone else get food stamps?"

"I paid off my student loans, so why should anyone else get a break?"

"I paid off my credit card bills, so why should anyone else get a break?"

That attitude is pointedly anti-progressive and serves only to injure the most vulnerable. Sure, there are people who fuck up by their own carelessness, but the broad-brush "I did it and to hell with everyone else" mindset makes me want to vomit.

[freshwest]

115. It's discouraging. But even if their candidates don't get elected, they are destroying civil society

With cleverly worded measures and propaganda that prey on those who are on the edge financially. Some days, I've felt that this is Libertarian Undeground, and have talked to people about leaving the site.

Because the same people that I see bashing Democratic ideas as old hat, have bought the shiny Libertarian mentality, that makes one pure as the driven snow ideologically, and look down on the complexities of governance. Even though those old hat ideas that gave them an education, a job, and so many things that they assume fell out of the ether and to which they are entitled.

And I found the link to the post that was put on the OP's page, copied from Eric Dondero's shout out on his website:

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html

Those who continue to spew the Democrats are not saying the right words, as if it is just up to some person in office to inspire the masses with hot rhetoric to educate all the people, are wrong and not being honest with themselves. They speak as if they had the media in their pockets when we don't, as the Obama campaign victory was not won in the media. It was in spit of the media by one on one work -- that means this must continue, or we will fail.

The expectation of a savior who is a firebrand to inspire, will not not come, as Obama could only do what he could to keep the office of POTUS. It took a marathon on his part, but much more on the part of those will going to go out day after day. Those who look for the strong voice to heat their blood will never find one good one, and will stay home as they did in 2010. I tell people this is not over by a long shot.

The POTUS and Senate and Democratic officials are merely holding back the push for feudalism. When you get right down to it, that is the end of all this brightly wrapped libertarian philosophy, now packaged in many forms, but started by the Koch brothers and akin to their former products, the Birchers and the Teahadists. They are just another Koch funded brand name on fascism and economic oppression. But they won't believe it, they think they found liberty and freedom. I've posted several articles and given many links in the past on this debate, but it's really become a religion for them.

Thanks for the reply there.

[freshwest]

121. More from the source article, as this isn't just one poster on a Facebook page spouting this:

Boycott Business who accept Welfare payments

Thirdly, I believe we all need to express disgust with Obama and Democrats in public places. To some extent I already do this. Example:

When I'm at the Wal-mart or grocery story I typically pay with my debit card. On the pad it comes up, "EBT, Debit, Credit, Cash." I make it a point to say loudly to the check-out clerk, "EBT, what is that for?" She inevitably says, "it's government assistance." I respond, "Oh, you mean welfare? Great. I work for a living. I'm paying for my food with my own hard-earned dollars. And other people get their food for free." And I look around with disgust, making sure others in line have heard me.

I am going to step this up. I am going to do far more of this in my life. It's going to be my personal crusade. I hope other libertarians and conservatives will eventually join me.

What I plan to do this week, is to get yard signs made up, at my own expense, that read, "EBT is for Welfare Moochers." I will put the signs out on public property off of the right-of-way so it's entirely legal, in front of every convenience store or grocery store that has a sign out saying "EBT Accepted Here." I may even do some sign waving in front of these stores, holding up my "EBT is for Welfare Moochers," sign, and waving to passers-by.

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html

I have not met one Libertarian who doesn't agree with this. It is all about the money. They suck.

[Atman]

88. Thank you. For some odd reason, one of my best friends claims to be a libertarian.

He voted for Bush both times, but midway through Bush's second term he totally disavowed him. Could hardly even remember his name. He stated calling himself a Libertarian. I give him shit about it all the time...he moved to a tiny Massachusetts town because they had low taxes, and no police department (they rely on Staties). Then started bitching about having to pay taxes for the schools (he's a DINK). Funny thing is, he is about as Libertarians as a frog. Very wealthy, son of privilege. He just doesn't want to have to pay any taxes. But he is smart enough to be embarrassed to call himself "Republican." I talked to him yesterday. His poor wife is practically comatose. She's a Bill O'Reilly lovin', Hannity worshipping Fox-watcher -- she is stunned, shocked and amazed. How could America have re-elected Obama?

I'm lovin' it.

[Genghis_Sean]

89. This is misguided and prejudiced

I'm not going to judge all Libertarians, all Republicans, or all Democrats as one and the same. This guy is predictably ill-informed and bitter, but I have a friend who is Libertarian, who has actually served in office as a Libertarian, and he is unquestionably a great guy. He expresses consistent disdain for both major parties, wanting to end our perpetual foreign entanglements, wanting smaller government, and wanting less corruption. He believes both parties have been corrupted by lobbyists and corporate campaign donations, and he's probably right. He's also for legalizing marijuana. I may not agree with every opinion he has, but I agree with him on many issues, and his views aren't antithetical to mine. Don't lump all Libertarians in with this guy unless you're willing to believe you can be lumped with every person who ever self-identified as a Democrat.

[1StrongBlackMan]

91. I suspect ...

this person will have a very lonely existence. And I wonder if he/she understands that limiting oneself to communicating with only those that agree with you, leaves you in a bubble that skews reality.

Further, I suspect this person is an 8 year old (chronologically, or emotionally), unable to accept rejection.

Finally, I suspect this person has no idea what Libertarianism is about ... No Libertarian would advocate:

You could take a crap on their lawn. Then again, probably not a good idea since it would be technically illegal to do this. But you could have your dog take care of business. Not your fault if he just happens to choose that particular spot.

A Libertarian would recognize that one is responsible for what one's dog does.

[rivegauche]

95. Jeez what a Nazi, is he kidding with that crap?

Sure, divorce your spouse and quit your job, throw it all away because someone disagrees with you. What a dope, good luck with that.

[codjh9]

96. Another nice, friendly, all-inclusive 'liberatarian republican' (hey, that's the name of that

website). I'm not going to defend libertarians in general whatsoever, but I know one who isn't remotely like this guy above. The guy above sounds like a Tea Partier who somehow drifted Libertarian ... probably because (this was the main thing I wanted to say about Libertarians anyway) they, and some of the militia types, etc. have totally confused freedom with anarchy. They don't want any govt., or only a tiny bit, plus think that anyone anytime anywhere telling them what to do (even if it's a commonly-accepted thing that works for society and/or the greater good) is an intrusion on their freedom. I think they're nuts, personally.

[duhneece]

97. When the Democratic Party fights the marijuana prohibition

There are many who don't understand all that the libertarians are about, but they know the libertarians want to end the war on drugs, especially the marijuana prohibition. I look forward to speaking out more often, more loudly about ending marijuana prohibition than ever.

[Major Nikon]

101. I understand exactly what they are about

They think personal liberty trumps all other considerations. With allies like that I don't need enemies.

Fuck 'em and the horse they rode in on.

[duhneece]

109. I think most DUers understand

We certainly have a more expanded point of view, a long-term view so we understand that GOOD government provides a higher quality of life than very limited government. It's the ignorant we must inform & educate. I've seen the marijuana issue to be first priority for many libertarians and it's one I, want to change.

[liberal_at_heart]

150. thank you

most people just blame the voter for leaving the party. You are addressing why the voters leave. That is how you keep a voter. You don't keep a voter by blaming and insulting them. That just drives them away even faster.

[Rob H.]

102. Shruggalo-to-English translation:

"I've always been a self-centered, selfish asshole, and I'm going to use this election as an excuse to not hide it anymore. You should, too."

[Norrin Radd]

103. Big "L" Libertarian Party types here in the U.S. are either minarchists or anarcho-capitalists

-- or waver between the two -- who would gladly drag us all kicking and screaming back to feudalism. They can all fuck off.

[themaguffin]

105. How is that asshole a libertarian if he supports GOP on social issues which are anti-liberty????

[ismnotwasm]

110. Well I certainly won't

Got a Libertarian brother. Oy

[Blue_Tires]

111. During the W. years there was a HUGE influx of Repubs into Libertarianism...

Mostly because Bush had eroded the party brand to the point where most sane people were ashamed to admit being repubs in public, and because they thought calling themselves "Libertarian" made them look edgy, hip, well-nuanced and politically astute...Not that these people ever changed their Repub views; they just pick out one part of the libertarian platform (i.e., no taxes, or no business regulation, cannabis, gold standard) to parrot endlessly...

And FWIW, there is NO such thing as a "Libertarian Republican"...That's some little fantasy bullshit dreamed up by the Alex Jones crowd, or Ron Paul acolytes (which is who I'd bet dollars to yen who the blogger voted for as a write-in) with zero substance, ala the TeaParty...You can NOT be all "100% libertarian" on financial issues while sounding like the KKK on social equality issues and still call yourself "libertarian"...There's an ugly subtext of this group where "unfettered rights and freedom for all" really means "just unfettered rights and freedom for me and my socio-economic demographic"

The libertarians I've known over the years would never have let themselves get associated with this bunch, but I guess the party was so happy just to get more people in its tent that it was too late to prevent being co-opted....

[Neo-Hessian]

145. He's a disgruntled former Ron Paul staffer...

..who spread the rumors about Paul being racist to get back at Paul. If you read the crap he wrote he's engaging in projection, as he's the one who's racist not Paul.

He's not very popular in the libertarian world.

[uppityperson]

146. Ron Paul isn't racist? FRP.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/12/27/395391/fact-check-ron-paul-personally-defended-racist-newsletters/?mobile=nc

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/15/10-quotes-that-make-ron-paul-sound-racist/

”We don’t think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That’s true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such.”(clip)

. “What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn’t that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?”(clip)


"Immigrants can spread diseases for which we may have no immunity. There is also the question of crime and culture. Many immigrants come from countries with different legal structures and are not willing to behave in the way we expect American citizens to behave.”

10. “There is no such thing as a hate crime.”

[Blue_Tires]

163. Paul already has a well-documented history of racism

no rumors there...

I can't figure out why Paul is even that popular in the libertarian world...

[JaneyVee]

114. Yeah, and ladies if your idiot husband voted for Mitt Romney no more blowjobs or sex.

[lbrtbell]

116. The guy who wrote that needs psychiatric help

Seriously, read that entire blog post. Then read the comments, where he becomes increasingly unhinged.

As someone in those comments suggested, I too fear that he's going to snap and go on a rampage, killing innocent people.

[librechik]

117. Thank You. n/t

[infidel dog]

122. In my experience, libertarianism is generally an infantile right wing mental disorder.

There are exceptions, of course, but come on,...If you're one semester through your freshman year, If Ayn Rand is your intellectual superhero, Mom and Dad are supplying all your life requirements, and you have a lot of Road Warrior fantasies about you and that cute neighbor down the block driving around the wasteland in an AMX , well, I guessss a youthful fling with libertarianism is an understandable thing. But to carry it on into maturity...Yeeesh. In the cases I've run into, when the pressure's on, libertarians break to the right. Almost invariably.

[Horse with no Name]

123. LOL

Someone needs a chill pill?

[Volaris]

129. Se, THIS kind of discussion is why I love it here...

humor, brains, and the beauty of more than one finely crafted argument. These things make all of us better at the politics and philosophies we care so deeply about. I haven't said this in a while, but thank you ALL so much for making this a place worth bookmarking.

[GoneOffShore]

131. Meant to kick this earlier.

[standingtall]

132. Libertarians are nothing more than economic fascist

Ron Paul the darling of libertarians who complains of a partnership of corporations, and the government himself is infact an economic fascist, because what he advocates is helping big business through no or very little regulation of business. In other words more freedom for the wealthy, and less for everyone else. Former governor, and professional wrestler Jesse Ventura is an economic fascist I specifically remember him saying "I am always on the side of labor." And this year he said he would like to Ron Paul's vice president. The friends of labor do not hold hands with the enemies of labor.

Government role with business shouldn't be to partner up with private business. Government should serve as an honest broker between business, and labor, and the communities in which those businesses operate.

[Shilo]

133. and that makes what percentage of the population unworthy human beings???

Freaks

[fascisthunter]

134. they live in a dream world

it all boils down to, I want and am not willing to pay for what I think I deserve.

Well, then.... do create your business in a world that is not subsidized by we the tax payers. Try being that real rugged individual... oh, and don't hire anyone, because you supposedly can do it all yourself.

[War Horse]

135. Glibertarians

usually try to pretend they're 'above' the political fray', in my experience.

"Austrian economics"

"Capitalism in it's 'purest form' hasn't been tried yet"

I've yet to encounter a capital 'L' Libertarian who doesn't fit that mold. And anti war? More like isolationism. I'll take a pragmatic D over that any day.

With apologies to any self-described 'leftist libertarians'.

[lexx21]

137. OMG!!! I've been..... "unfriended".......

Ok, big fucking deal. This is just an great example of how childish the right can be. Someone licked the red off of his candy and now he is going to pout about it.

Quit work during a recession because you work for a democrat. Alienate your co-workers because they are a democrat. Alienate your clients and see how far that crap gets you. Divorce your spouse because they voted for Obama... ok, that is really pushing the edge.

The guy who wrote this sounds like the same kind of person who will tell you exactly what you are doing wrong with raising your kids even though they have none of their own. A.K.A the "expert".

We had a guy like that at work once. We called him booger. No joke.

[Liberalynn]

142. Some of these people really should check into psychotherapy

I am not joking about that either.

[lexx21]

143. Oh I know you aren't and I couldn't agree more. n/t

[WinkyDink]

138. IMO, they should be at Libertarian Underground.

[Kennah]

147. Isn't that Freeperville?

[renie408]

144. OH NOES!! Being unfriended by a LIBERTARIAN!! Say it isn't so!! n/t

[orleans]

148. "DO NOT Defend Libertarians to me at Democratic Underground" -- okay

it wasn't something i was planning on doing anyway

[DCKit]

149. That doesn't work for me. I've got family, friends and business with those folks.

All I can hope for is education. I can't drop them like a hot rock, and wouldn't want to. I love every one of them, despite their political views.

[ck4829]

152. "Those Democras and their... their... healthcare. EAAARGH!!1"

[LaydeeBug]

154. I wish I could rec this a few thousand more times. kick. nt

[Neon2012]

156. This tirade was mentioned on NPR this morning.

[TransitJohn]

168. 100th rec and a kick.

Nice post.