General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe federal government can give everyone in the country a voter id to use when
voting. If it can give everyone a social security number, this should be a walk in the park. The number would be valid throughout a persons lifetime and they would received it at age 18. Using it to vote twice in any one election would trigger an alert and an arrest.
Now to figure a way to make the election rules uniform throughout the states with changes impossible without putting it on a referendum to be voted on by the voters in that state.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)We are dealing with a population in which a fair number of people, egged on by "news" commentators, believe the census is an evil plot.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)On those occasions where I speak for all Americans, it is a natural assumption that I am excluding you.
I should have a general disclaimer in my signature that says "except CreekDog", but by now I believed that to be implicitly understood.
As in, "I'm buying everyone on DU a beer!"
The "except CreekDog" just naturaly follows.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)therefore it's a true statement.
he didn't say that it applied to all americans.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)yes.
why say it if he's talking about 3 people in Bozeman?
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)because it is difficult to pass gun control measures in this country.
but it doesn't mean that all americans are against gun laws.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i'm not resistant.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)(except CreekDog - see how that works?)
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)Americans like pie.
is another example.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Is that true or false?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)as to whether IDs are necessary, or are evil. It's got to be one or the other.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...and is not exclusive to citizens.
Since we are talking about voting, I thought it was assumed that we were talking about citizens.
Non-citizens who work in this country have SSN's.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)right on the front at the top. In fact, this was one of the arguments against SSN back when it was proposed. Fascism was rising throughout the world and Americans were, quite justifiably, very leery of anything that smacked of 'papers please".
Romulox
(25,960 posts)I was referring to your earlier point, which was much broader than that:
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There is not a reliably unique one-to-one correlation between people and SSN's, and SSN's are not limited to citizens.
Some organizations consider it "good enough" for some purposes but my DMV, for example, most certainly does not have my SSN.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)at some point.
It's all part of the "Real ID Act":
The law set forth certain requirements for state driver's licenses and ID cards to be accepted by the federal government for "official purposes", as defined by the Secretary of Homeland Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security has currently defined "official purposes" as presenting state driver's licenses and identification cards for boarding commercially operated airline flights and entering federal buildings and nuclear power plants.
<snip>
People born on or after December 1, 1964, will have to obtain a REAL ID by December 1, 2014. Those born before December 1, 1964, will have until December 1, 2017 to obtain their REAL ID.[17]
Document Verification Requirements
<snip>
Section 202(c)(3) of the Real ID Act[21] requires the states to "verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document" that is required to be presented by a driver's license applicant to prove their identity, birth date, legal status in the U.S., social security number and the address of their principal residence. The same section states that the only foreign document acceptable is a foreign passport.
(all emphasis mine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#Federally_mandated_standards_for_state_driver.27s_licenses_or_ID_cards
(sorry for the tedious edits...please visit the link for the complete original.)
surrealAmerican
(11,361 posts)Voter fraud is simply not a big enough problem to justify the expense of a system like that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Even in States that don't use 'polling places'? Why? Other States should simply make it easier for people to vote, like progressively minded States do. It is the 'ID' States that need to change.
53tammy
(93 posts)It would still cost less than the effort put forth to fight voter fraud.
In line to vote a worker was bragging about turning away a voter without ID and refusing to allow a provisional ballot and the other woman were applauding her effort. When I stepped in to disagree and explain how what she did was wrong one of the $#@% asked "just how hard is it to get a photo ID. I told her much harder than she thought and our efforts should be spent ensuring everyone has the right without obstacles.
peace13
(11,076 posts)In Ohio in order to get a State ID you need a copy of your birth certificate, social security card and if you are a woman who has been married before you will need to have records of marriage / divorce papers to show any name changes along the way. This is not a walk in the park for most folks.
Be clear, any National ID is an effort to suppress voting rights. It has been proven that the theft is not from individual voters but suppression from SOS's, electronic machines and voter profiling. Let's focus where the problems are!
shraby
(21,946 posts)it for social security, they did it for the draft, they can do it for voter id. No need for any other demographics. The second part of my suggestion was to make voting standards throughout the 50 states. Standard rules and regulations that cannot be changed without a referendum voted on by the people in the state, so no Secretary of State can do what Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida have done to their elections. Florida is so bad it's a national joke as is Ohio.
peace13
(11,076 posts)you are going to give everyone who applies, a card. No citizenship required? To vote? On demand? To be of any value I would guess that initially the card would be issued with proof of citizenship. Hence the rig-a-ma-roll. Hence the voter suppression.
shraby
(21,946 posts)birthday a card would be issued to them..whether naturalized citizen or not. That number would be theirs to vote with for the rest of their lives.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There is no national registry of citizens in this country. If there is, perhaps you might identify which agency maintains it.
Because of a particular crankitude streak of our national character, we are unlike many other countries in that regard.
Go apply for a passport, give them your social security number, and say "look me up, I'm a citizen". That can't be done.
...Unless you are suggesting that we combine some kind of new "federal birth registry" with immigration records. Even then, the federal government does not know that any 18 year old presenting him or herself is the person whose birth was recorded in that registry.
ananda
(28,864 posts)..
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)A social security number is required to be employed in the US. There are many non-citizen legal residents of the US working here who have social security numbers.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Citizen: yes/no.
Just like a drivers license qualifies what you're actually allowed to drive.
/does it make any sense for your SS card to be a piece of easily destroyed paper with no identification beyond name and number?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)A) because we don't have it already, thus proving we never can and B) because even free cards will cost at least 15 bucks. . . for some reason.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Thus no need to ID anyone.