Egg issues

[PurgedVoter]

The majority of chickens are raised in large buildings and in relative isolation for the most part. They are usually over provided with antibiotics and the egg shortage made me curious. Avian flu didn't quite click as the cause, I suspect it is a contributor, or possibly and excuse for market manipulation, but then I am showing my paranoia about what the wealthy do in their spare time.

I started looking around. At this point I am still collecting data, but a LOT of independent chicken raisers have had their chickens stop producing at the same time. Now a lot of them are saying they started making their own feed and their chickens are producing again, often more than they ever did before.

I am not in a position to positively identify the cause of this issue. If I were in a position to bet, however I would blame feed suppliers.

A lot of the chicken breeders are blaming Nestle', and Purina. Purina has been through quite a few hands, it used to be the Koch brothers property.

for now I suggest you do your own research and be careful. I don't want to be anything like Q, so I am still looking around for data.

[womanofthehills]

1. I have my own chickens - and they are laying way fewer eggs

I don’t trust commercial chicken food. I was giving my chickens commercial organic feed so I just switched to a local grower/supplier of organic chicken food from northern NM. Every yr by Feb/Match they are all laying- but not this yr.

[hlthe2b]

2. You are underestimating the impacts of H5N1 (avian flu) to an incredible degree-both to large

producers and backyard flocks. At this point, we can likely expect producers to have to routinely move toward vaccinating their flocks which would be both labor-intensive and costly. I have friends with backyard flocks. Only one is set up to really prevent contact with potentially infected wild birds. The other two have had to cull their birds due to avian flu. Your conspiracy theories are waaay off base.

This article if from the WSJ, but similar reporting has been produced elsewhere.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/worst-avian-flu-in-u-s-history-is-hitting-poultry-wild-birds-even-bears-11674366891

Worst Avian Flu in U.S. History Is Hitting Poultry, Wild Birds, Even Bears
Egg-laying flocks in Nebraska, Colorado and elsewhere have been decimated

Nearly a year after it began, the worst avian-influenza outbreak in U.S. history is continuing to decimate poultry flocks across the Midwest and Colorado, frustrating efforts to keep the virus from affecting the nation’s egg prices and supply.

In South Dakota, the highly contagious bird flu, typically transmitted by the feces, mucus and saliva of wild birds, first hit commercial poultry farms in March 2022 and has continued to affect flocks. Within the last month, egg-laying hens and turkeys at several local farms were infected, leading to the deaths of more than 1.3 million poultry over that period, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data. Nearly four million poultry have died in the state since the start of the outbreak.

‘We don’t know why it has been able to thrive for so long. We’re almost a full year into this outbreak and it is ongoing.’
— Maggie Baldwin, Colorado’s state veterinarian

Nebraska, where more than 4.8 million poultry died during a 2015 bird-flu outbreak, has surpassed 6.7 million poultry deaths from the current outbreak, according to state and federal data.

Colorado has lost more than 90% of its table egg-laying hens, while also seeing its population of wild birds including snow geese, raptors, hawks and eagles sickened, state officials sai

“One of the challenges is that we don’t know why it has been able to thrive for so long. We’re almost a full year into this outbreak and it is ongoing,” said Maggie Baldwin, Colorado’s state veterinarian.

Some 6.25 million poultry in Colorado have died so far.

People working on the problem say there is no easy way to stop the spread of bird flu. Instead, the virus must be allowed to run its course.

“There is no historical context for this. It’s like when Covid hit for humans,” said Mike Tincher, rehabilitation coordinator for Colorado’s Rocky Mountain Raptor Program.

To keep bird flu from spreading, entire poultry flocks must be destroyed after an infection is confirmed. The outbreak has caused the deaths of nearly 58 million poultry in 47 states, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data.

What we know about the deadliest U.S. bird flu outbreak in history
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1140076426/what-we-know-about-the-deadliest-u-s-bird-flu-outbreak-in-history

Bird flu alarm drives world towards once-shunned vaccines
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/bird-flu-alarm-drives-world-towards-once-shunned-vaccines-2023-02-17/

[womanofthehills]

6. My chickens are super healthy

Have you ever had chickens?

Sick chickens die very fast. If you see something off with a chicken - like not walking right or eating less - they will be dead within a day or two. The eggs I do get are beautiful - not something a sick chicken would lay. I had one this morning- still warm when I gathered it.

[brooklynite]

3. Disregard this unwarranted conspiracy theory

"Avian flu didn't quite click as the cause"

IOW the Biden Administration (FDA and CDC) is apparently less perceptive than a non-veterinarian in the blogosphere.

"Do your own research"

Why does that sound familiar?

Ask the Expert: Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza A(H5N1) Viruses

This ‘Ask the Expert’ web posting has been amended and reposted for clarity and to correct one numerical error.

Dr. Tim Uyeki, Chief Medical Officer of the Influenza Division at CDC, answers common questions about highly pathogenic avian influenza A(H5N1) viruses, which have been detected in the United States in wild birds since late 2021 and commercial and backyard poultry since February 2022.

What is the extent of the current outbreak of influenza A(H5N1) in birds?

Like much of the rest of the world, the United States continues to experience outbreaks of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) A(H5N1) virus in wild birds and poultry. HPAI A(H5N1) virus has been circulating among birds and poultry in different parts of the world for many years and continuing to evolve into different groups that are referred to as clades. The current clade of H5N1 virus, called clade 2.3.4.4b, appears well-adapted to spread efficiently among wild birds and poultry in many regions of the world and was first identified in wild birds sampled in the United States in late 2021. Since then, this current clade 2.3.4.4b HPAI A(H5N1) virus has been detected in wild birds in 49 states and has caused bird outbreaks in 47 states affecting more than 58 million commercial poultry and backyard flocks.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/spotlights/2022-2023/avian-flu-updated.htm

[d_r]

4. Chickens lay eggs when there's light

So think of those commercial egg laying operations they have electric lights that they turn on to regulate what seems like day and what seems like night. The chickens lay less in the winter time. So when the days are shorter and there's less light then they lay less. So think about really overcast gloomy winter short days no eggs. Now days are getting longer there's more light in the eggs they are laying.

[MissB]

5. I have a backyard flock. They quit laying eggs. I use Purina.

I also use Scratch and Peck feed.

My hens quit laying towards the end of October. I didn’t change their feed. They started back laying eggs again about a month ago, and I’m getting about 3 a day from them.

Why did they stop laying for awhile? Was it the feed? No. It was not. I do not add artificial light to their hen house. They stop because they molt (lose a bunch of feathers) *and* they don’t have enough daylight to produce an egg.

Once they are fully feathered and the days start getting longer, they take up egg laying again.

Such is the cycle.

They have a large outdoor area, completely enclosed with hardware cloth and a metal roof to keep out everything. Nothing can chew through, dig under, or sit on top. My birds aren’t getting a lot of yard time right now because of Avian flu. But they do experience fresh air and sunshine.

[Effete Snob]

7. There is a forum on DU called Creative Speculation

"antibiotics and the egg shortage made me curious. Avian flu didn't quite click"

WTF do antibiotics have to do with an influenza?

If you think antibiotics have anything to do with flu, then you are profoundly unqualified to promote this dopey conspiracy theory.

That is all.

"do your own research"

Oh, horseshit. I'm not qualified to do immunological research and I'm CERTAIN you aren't, given the utter inanity of your comment about antibiotics and flu.

[PurgedVoter]

9. Nope, not an expert and I don't claim to be.

Antibiotic over use is a big issue, my mentioning it is more of a complaint. It might help stop secondary infections. That how doctors often use it when treating a lot of viral infections. Antibiotic over use it is an indicator of the sort of environment chickens are grown in. Paranoid but filthy.

A virus is a different sort of thing. While I do think there are folk with a good understanding of them these days, our understanding of them is fairly recent and unless a person, even one trained and in the field, keeps up, they might not be on top of the science.

You did not seem to notice that I tried to be quite clear in not saying I am an expert. I have however raised a lot of chickens. I know enough to not want to raise a flock of them right now.

Yes, chickens do slow down down egg laying in winter. This causes fluctuations but not like this. When prices dramatically shift, I tend to look at profits and providers as a possible cause. Keep in mind how fuel prices shift with any rumor despite the barrel price of crude. Also keep in mind what happened with dog food when melamine was being used to make protein tests look good back in 2007.

Good to know I can't present data, notice patterns or ask questions without being jumped.

[brooklynite]

12. "Good to know I can't present data"

At this point I am still collecting data

...which you didn't present.

[PurgedVoter]

16. The data I could present is anecdotal worth considering but none of it has chemistry behind it.

I don't rule out peoples observations especially when I see a lot of them. That said, I don't promote them either. I live in the South where we were raised on things everyone believed and were sure they had seen, but turns out were the opposite of what we were taught. (Yes, among other things I am talking about racial issues.) I am not against prepping in general, but a lot of chicken raisers are prep adjacent and a lot of the prep adjacent are ready to latch onto any thought.

Like I said in the OP, I am still looking around for data. I might bet a few bucks on my best guess, but I wouldn't consider it a good investment. But enough of this, you have an opinion, and you don't respect my trying to form one, so you be you.

[jcgoldie]

13. You are correct that resistence to antibiotics system-wide is due to poor conditions

Not just in the poultry industry but also and probably even more-so in the pork and beef industries. Commercial producers load their animals up with antibiotics pro-actively because they expect large losses if they don't due to raising animals in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions. Cattle in feedlots that never touch a blade of grass and stand 6 inches deep in wet manure tend to get sick. The problem is that using antibiotics proactively makes them less effective. The bacteria develop immunity. Some studies suggest some of this ineffectuality may be passed on to humans. Most of the antibiotics we use are the same.

Your chicken feed thesis I would be more skeptical of. Those companies would have to reduce the protein levels in their feed significantly to seriously put a dent in egg production.

[randr]

8. We hatched out new chicks last August

5 or 6 new hens added to our flock of 20 or more. They started laying in December and still are producing over a dozen a day.
Feed non GMO only with a blend of our own.
This winter has been unusually dark, cold, and snowy on top of it.
Go figure.
Our closest friends have not suffered a lack of eggs.

[PurgedVoter]

10. Good to hear from a chicken raiser!

What type do you raise? I am personally in love with Ameraucanas. I love the egg color and the personality of the chickens. It is the only breed I have raised where I have been able to make good friends with the roosters.

[randr]

19. New ones are a Maran breed with dark brown eggs

We have a mixture and get multicolored eggs

[PurgedVoter]

21. Sounds fun!

[randr]

22. The biggest reward is the manure I get to build my compost

Plus they eat all of our kitchen scraps which gives them a substantial organic boost to their diet.

[Bantamfancier]

11. For the record.

Anyone that still espouses the line that chickens are fed copious amounts of antibiotics is just badly misinformed. Please do better. This was true 20 years ago but not today.
Also, there are very few antibiotics that are approved for egg layers.

Aside from avian flu the main diseases that ruin flocks these days are coccidiosis and necrotic enteritis.
Growers try to mitigate these thru the use of vaccines and coccidiostats.
If antibiotics are required, the treatment period is short, usually 5-7 days with a lengthy withdrawal period.

Yes, you might be hearing hoof beats, but think horses not zebras.

[jcgoldie]

14. how would anyone know with ag-gag laws such as they are?

[PurgedVoter]

18. At one time I had the certification so I could train others to train others on pesticide usage.

It is good to hear that antibiotic overuse is down. I suspect there are those who are ignoring the rules. From what I know, even if you are an organic farmer, you can't deprive animals of treatment. This is good but it also means that if you have shopped for the right veterinarian, you can do what you want with antibiotics.

Next time I am in the coop I will look and see what sort of antibiotic products are available. A lot goes on out in the fields. If you heard the things I heard you would have a serious distrust for what they do in agriculture.

One time, at a training certification/meal it was explained that every so many hours, I forget, but probably four, the person applying pesticide would have to be contacted by sight or speech. This was because workers on weekends had been pinned under tractors in pools of pesticide for an entire weekend. It seemed pretty reasonable, but I was scared to voice my agreement with it since the ranchers and farmers were outraged at having another rule put on them that was going to drive them all out of business.

When they spoke among themselves they said things, I cannot repeat. Sociopaths were the majority of them and all of them wearing white Texas style hats indoors.

[Bantamfancier]

20. I hear all that crap from the locals too.

And I have friends in the industry and in the universities that prefer ( like me) to deal in facts.

So far, you haven’t provided any sources that could back your wild assumptions.

I assure you no veterinarian is willing to risk their license to prescribe antibiotics like you suggest.

And what does checking on someone working alone have to do with this topic?

[gay texan]

15. FWIW

My local egg woman is cranking them out quicker than I can buy. 3 bucks a dozen, bloody large and damn rich!