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I thought they passed a law to stop Daylight Savings time! I just got a "notification" on Apple (Original Post) BComplex Mar 2023 OP
Not yet. Ocelot II Mar 2023 #1
Thanks for the info. I thought it was already a done-deal, and I've been BComplex Mar 2023 #5
October uses daylight time in all cases mathematic Mar 2023 #14
You've been planning an October wedding around it??? muriel_volestrangler Mar 2023 #41
I can't imagine the planning changes based on whether there is, or is not, DST. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #66
I would guess they might be planning an out door wedding. karynnj Mar 2023 #77
Even so - Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #79
I think the point is that the law could change whether the locale is DST or not karynnj Mar 2023 #80
The OP was assuming the law had already been passed. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #81
You are right karynnj Mar 2023 #83
Yep. We're planning a dusk wedding. After sunset and before dark, so it kind of matters what time BComplex Mar 2023 #85
No, the law was never going to be that standard time was going to be permanent. muriel_volestrangler Mar 2023 #86
It hasn't been passed yet MichMan Mar 2023 #2
Also, the bill isn't to stop daylight saving time, it's to make it permanent. Ocelot II Mar 2023 #4
Senate is voting again Tree Lady Mar 2023 #3
Me, too, Tree Lady! There's just no point in changing clocks and going through BComplex Mar 2023 #6
except there is a point of course Blues Heron Mar 2023 #8
That's nothing Effete Snob Mar 2023 #9
Hahaha! BComplex Mar 2023 #18
Lol Meowmee Mar 2023 #61
I don't know why but changing it Tree Lady Mar 2023 #11
My Honda Fit has been wrong by an hour since last fall. csziggy Mar 2023 #13
I'm curious, why you are tired of changing? It just takes 3 minutes every year to accomplish. HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #26
For me its sleep my sleep patterns Tree Lady Mar 2023 #30
I can imagine that WOULD be difficult. I usually have no problem sleeping. HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #36
maybe ease into it by going to bed 10 minutes earlier each night the week before the switch Blues Heron Mar 2023 #42
Sounds like a good idea. nt Tree Lady Mar 2023 #49
Who is "they" Effete Snob Mar 2023 #7
The senate and I read that Ariz and Tree Lady Mar 2023 #12
Dear god, just pass it already. We've been playing this game for long enough. Make DST permanent. ratchiweenie Mar 2023 #10
Leave it at Standard Time. Daylight Time is unnecessary. PSPS Mar 2023 #21
Just seems to me that given how "depressed" the entire United States of America is ratchiweenie Mar 2023 #23
there is no extra sunshine - you are stealing it from the morning light with perma-DST Blues Heron Mar 2023 #47
Umm DST doesn't make extra sunlight. Happy Hoosier Mar 2023 #70
I'd rather have DST all year. moose65 Mar 2023 #33
Agreed. Happy Hoosier Mar 2023 #69
But there really isn't any "extra' sunshine. It just gets moved to the morning from the evening. HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #27
Actually, there IS extra sunshine moose65 Mar 2023 #32
One could change the length of daylight quickly just by flying from Miami to Anchorage! HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #38
I think what a lot of people really want is more sunshine and less dark all year long tanyev Mar 2023 #39
Daylight Saving time is optional at the state level Jerry2144 Mar 2023 #15
Uggh! I hate springing forward MaryMagdaline Mar 2023 #16
Not a fan of Daylight Saving Time. area51 Mar 2023 #17
Why? moose65 Mar 2023 #34
I don't see any benefit to DST. Happy Hoosier Mar 2023 #71
Come to Sweden in the winter and you will see the advantage of DST. I so want it year round. Celerity Mar 2023 #88
Nope Rebl2 Mar 2023 #19
I am same way would rather have permanent Tree Lady Mar 2023 #31
Split the hour, make midnight 11:30 or 12:30 /nt bucolic_frolic Mar 2023 #20
I know! Move it 1/2 hour and never move it again. tanyev Mar 2023 #40
I enjoy changing the clocks Tetrachloride Mar 2023 #22
I am apparently the only person who remembers when we stayed on DST PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2023 #24
Doesn't that already happen anyway? moose65 Mar 2023 #35
No. This was happening in places where PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2023 #56
Where I live, kids go to school in the dark in winter anyway. Mariana Mar 2023 #58
Amen. Even with time as it is now... Happy Hoosier Mar 2023 #72
DST should be permanent. FoxNewsSucks Mar 2023 #25
Time doesn't really exist ! HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #28
Then how did I get so old? FoxNewsSucks Mar 2023 #29
:)))))) HUAJIAO Mar 2023 #37
All in all though it's bad for our health to be on permanent daylight savings time Stargleamer Mar 2023 #44
The headline doesn't really match the text. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #67
During summer months it won't be dark at 4-5 pm sunset around 6 or later because FloridaBlues Mar 2023 #48
Well I want 8:30 sundowns in June Polybius Mar 2023 #51
Yep Effete Snob Mar 2023 #59
Permanent DST is bad for health Stargleamer Mar 2023 #43
I can live with that Polybius Mar 2023 #52
But others will suffer. . . Stargleamer Mar 2023 #53
We all vote for our interests first Polybius Mar 2023 #54
your interests could expand to include the health and well-being of others Stargleamer Mar 2023 #57
I'm all for supporting other's interests if it doesn't drastically effect or inconvenience me Polybius Mar 2023 #82
All studies, I'm sure, which Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #68
Well then your skepticism does have merit Stargleamer Mar 2023 #75
The second study focuses primarily on the impact of changing from one to the other Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #78
Congress wanted to review studies. The US tried it for 2years back FloridaBlues Mar 2023 #45
Twice a year, I'm thankful that my phone and computers reset themselves. nt Buns_of_Fire Mar 2023 #46
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2023 #84
They never did anything to stop it Polybius Mar 2023 #50
I'd rather keep it as is than do permanent standard time. Ace Rothstein Mar 2023 #55
Sunset at 4:15pm in December sucks too. Mariana Mar 2023 #76
The exact times of sunrise and sunset throughout the year PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2023 #60
How far you are from the equator (latitude) changes the variability of the length of a day Silent3 Mar 2023 #63
I have likewise lived sometimes on the eastern edge of a time zone, PoindexterOglethorpe Mar 2023 #65
That is what I thought Meowmee Mar 2023 #62
FWIW, DU has already shifted to daylight savings time Brother Buzz Mar 2023 #64
Yeah. I found out last November that it's not the case ecstatic Mar 2023 #73
Remember the "permanent" DST of the early seventies... LowerManhattanite Mar 2023 #74
the law they want to pass is to have permanent DST, NOT to stop it. Perm DST is great IMO. Celerity Mar 2023 #87

Ocelot II

(115,783 posts)
1. Not yet.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:38 AM
Mar 2023

There are bills in Congress to make daylight saving permanent. If the current bills pass are signed by Biden, permanent daylight saving time would take effect on Nov. 5, 2023. This would allow the transportation industry time to adjust its advanced scheduling. This means that the last clock change would be the upcoming one.

BComplex

(8,058 posts)
5. Thanks for the info. I thought it was already a done-deal, and I've been
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:41 AM
Mar 2023

planning an October wedding around it.

mathematic

(1,439 posts)
14. October uses daylight time in all cases
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:49 AM
Mar 2023

Standard time (what we're on for the rest of today) starts in November and the proposed bill is to get rid of standard time. Nobody's proposing a bill to get rid of daylight time so you can safely plan on an event's time in October.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,336 posts)
41. You've been planning an October wedding around it???
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 01:42 PM
Mar 2023

I would have thought you've have checked better than "I vaguely remember some headline from last year" before going that far.

What "planning" is involved? I can't imagine very many guests would find a "daylight savings time" theme that fun.

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
66. I can't imagine the planning changes based on whether there is, or is not, DST.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:42 PM
Mar 2023

Aside from counting down hours to the wedding there shouldn't be anything that changes. If the wedding is set for 4 PM, it will take place at 4 PM regardless of whether we have DST or not.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
77. I would guess they might be planning an out door wedding.
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:25 PM
Mar 2023

Even then, it's no problem until they schedule times for the service and party. Whatever lighting, sunset etc they qwerty planning around might simply mean changing the "hour" to get the physical time they want.

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
79. Even so -
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:40 PM
Mar 2023

I don't have daylight hours memorized.

If I was planning a wedding that required light at a certain time I would have googled sunset on the desired date for the desired location. Every time I've done a similar search, it takes into account whether the location is, or is not, on DST.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
80. I think the point is that the law could change whether the locale is DST or not
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:49 PM
Mar 2023

Having helped a daughter with her plan for an October wedding, with an outdoor ceremony a few years ago in Vermont, I get their concern.

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
81. The OP was assuming the law had already been passed.
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:57 PM
Mar 2023

But whether the OP was correct in that assumption or not, any sundown predicting apps will still give her the correct local time for sundown (in other words, had the legislation passed it would have given a different clock time than had the legislation not passed, because the apps would have updated based on the law.)

Unless the OP had the times for sundown memorized without consulting an external source. And, frankly, for anything that critical - even if I believed I had it all memorized - I would have checked anything that critical against an external source.

karynnj

(59,504 posts)
83. You are right
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 05:46 PM
Mar 2023

I was assuming -Incorrectly - that she was trying to fix a time not knowing which way the legislation would go. I misread the comments.

BComplex

(8,058 posts)
85. Yep. We're planning a dusk wedding. After sunset and before dark, so it kind of matters what time
Mon Mar 13, 2023, 06:25 AM
Mar 2023

dusk is. The extra hour is important, as dusk for DST is different for Standard time, and the last check was when standard time was going to be the new law. Arizona stays on Mountain time, while the rest of the country changes, but I thought we were going to all be like Arizona, and stay on our designated time zones (Eastern, Central, etc), and NOT change to DST. I thought that last Fall was the last time we were going to change our clocks.

It will change how the invitations have to be written.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,336 posts)
86. No, the law was never going to be that standard time was going to be permanent.
Mon Mar 13, 2023, 07:35 AM
Mar 2023

The bill that got through the Senate in 2022 was for Daylight Savings Time to be permanent.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-that-would-make-daylight-savings-time-permanent-2023-2022-03-15/

So this October would be on Daylight Savings Time whether or not that bill had proceeded. If that bill had become law, then this weekend would have had a clock change, and then there wouldn't be one next November.

Look on the bright side - you would have had to change the invitations anyway, because of your first mistake, about what the bill said. So not realising the bill hadn't become law hasn't affected you.

MichMan

(11,950 posts)
2. It hasn't been passed yet
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:39 AM
Mar 2023
Earlier this month, Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) introduced the Sunshine Protection Act of 2023, which would make daylight saving time permanent. So far, the bill has received bipartisan support in the Senate and has been referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

If passed, the March 12 changing of the clocks would be the final such event – we wouldn’t “fall back” in November.

Tree Lady

(11,480 posts)
3. Senate is voting again
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:39 AM
Mar 2023

another bipartisan bill. What happened was senate approved it but congress couldn't agree on which one to make permanent. So they are trying again.

I think most people are tired of changing, I am!

BComplex

(8,058 posts)
6. Me, too, Tree Lady! There's just no point in changing clocks and going through
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:42 AM
Mar 2023

the internal clock adjustments that go along with it.

Blues Heron

(5,939 posts)
8. except there is a point of course
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:45 AM
Mar 2023

its to take advantage of the earlier sunrise so we have more time off in the afternoon. That doesnt really make sense in the depths of winter, hence the change. It didnt just come out of nowhere to annoy people.

Tree Lady

(11,480 posts)
11. I don't know why but changing it
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:46 AM
Mar 2023

in my Prius I always have to look up how, I mean I never remember lol. So it takes me awhile every time.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
13. My Honda Fit has been wrong by an hour since last fall.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:49 AM
Mar 2023

So now I will have to adjust my brain to not "correct" the time by subtracting an hour!

Tree Lady

(11,480 posts)
30. For me its sleep my sleep patterns
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:55 PM
Mar 2023

are not that great and trying to change a hour of bedtime messes me up.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
7. Who is "they"
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:43 AM
Mar 2023

The legislature in Arizona, which does not observe DST?

Indiana? Where they are in two time zones and the northwestern part includes a lot of commuters to Chicagoland?

The US? No.

Tree Lady

(11,480 posts)
12. The senate and I read that Ariz and
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:48 AM
Mar 2023

Hawaii will remain on permanent standard time so even if it passes we won't all be the same.

ratchiweenie

(7,754 posts)
10. Dear god, just pass it already. We've been playing this game for long enough. Make DST permanent.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:46 AM
Mar 2023

We can all use the extra sunshine.

PSPS

(13,606 posts)
21. Leave it at Standard Time. Daylight Time is unnecessary.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:05 PM
Mar 2023

Daylight Time originated during the world wars and used to be called "war time." It became a permanent yearly feature in 1966.

Daylight Time is known to have negative health effects

Permanent Daylight Time was tried in the 70's but lasted only one or two years before they changed it back to what it is now because people got tired of their kids getting run over in the morning on the way to school. The same thing will happen if they try it again.

ratchiweenie

(7,754 posts)
23. Just seems to me that given how "depressed" the entire United States of America is
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:12 PM
Mar 2023

having that extra hour of sunlight hitting our collective retina has to be a good thing for the country. Of course I live in the north where we always welcome extra winter light. LOL.

Blues Heron

(5,939 posts)
47. there is no extra sunshine - you are stealing it from the morning light with perma-DST
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 02:20 PM
Mar 2023

There is nothing more depressing than having to hustle out the door before dawn on a cold and windy winter morning. Thats why we only do it in Spring Fall and Summer. Winter has to be on Standard time or it really messes things up. Been there, done that, no thanks. It lasted less than a year the last time they tried it.

Happy Hoosier

(7,350 posts)
70. Umm DST doesn't make extra sunlight.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:20 PM
Mar 2023

It just changes what the clock says. Where I live, DST in December means sunrise at 9 AM. Ya know what’s depressing? Going to work before sunrise.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
33. I'd rather have DST all year.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:58 PM
Mar 2023

We are already under Daylight Saving Time for 2/3 of the year anyway. It’s more “standard” than Standard Time 😆

Happy Hoosier

(7,350 posts)
69. Agreed.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:18 PM
Mar 2023

If DST is permanent, the sun won’t rise until after 9 AM here in December. No thank you!!!

moose65

(3,167 posts)
32. Actually, there IS extra sunshine
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:56 PM
Mar 2023

The days get progressively longer until June 21, when they start getting shorter again. Of course, that would happen with Standard Time, too.

tanyev

(42,589 posts)
39. I think what a lot of people really want is more sunshine and less dark all year long
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 01:33 PM
Mar 2023

but yes, that piper has to be paid no matter what the clocks say.

Jerry2144

(2,106 posts)
15. Daylight Saving time is optional at the state level
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:51 AM
Mar 2023

A state, such as Arizona, can choose to stay year-round standard time. What is trying to make it's way through congress is the option to stay on permanent Daylight Saving Time. Much better since in the summer the sun rises too dang early on DST (04:30 here) and sets too early in the winter on standard time (16:30).

There really is no easy answer for good daylight since the Earth really is a sphere (ish) object traveling through space in an elliptical orbit while spinning around on a tilted axis. Perhaps we should split the difference and go on permanent 1/2 DST?

Happy Hoosier

(7,350 posts)
71. I don't see any benefit to DST.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:23 PM
Mar 2023

And I would HATE it in the winter…. It would mean sunrise after 9AM where I live! I can’t understand why anyone would want that.

Celerity

(43,461 posts)
88. Come to Sweden in the winter and you will see the advantage of DST. I so want it year round.
Mon Mar 13, 2023, 08:11 AM
Mar 2023

We do not switch for two more weeks, so are still on standard time, which also is shit for this time of the year as well.

Crazy early sunrise at around 5 am or so and yet still getting dark at 5 pm or so until we move forward.

It sucks.

Rebl2

(13,535 posts)
19. Nope
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 11:59 AM
Mar 2023

It didn’t go anywhere in Congress last year, but they have brought it back up this year. I would like to see permanent standard time and not daylight savings.
I think they tried DST for almost a year back in the 70’s and ends up majority of people did not like it. So they changed it back to what we have now. Not sure why they did this.

Tree Lady

(11,480 posts)
31. I am same way would rather have permanent
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:56 PM
Mar 2023

standard. Sun stays up too late in tye summer and I end up eating dinner way to late and it effects my sleep.

tanyev

(42,589 posts)
40. I know! Move it 1/2 hour and never move it again.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 01:34 PM
Mar 2023

That would probably be an even more disruptive transition, though. Modern life is complicated.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,868 posts)
24. I am apparently the only person who remembers when we stayed on DST
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:15 PM
Mar 2023

in the 70s. It was awful. Kids going to school in full dark. Some of them were hit by cars while waiting for the bus.

Permanent standard time makes far more sense, and is in better tune with our natural circadian rhythm.

If we're actually going to have DST, the biggest problem is that it starts too early and lasts too long. Start in April, end in September.

moose65

(3,167 posts)
35. Doesn't that already happen anyway?
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 01:04 PM
Mar 2023

I just looked up Minneapolis in January. On standard time, the sunrises at 7:51 during the first week of that month. If schools start at 8, there are a lot of kids going to school there in the dark!

It would make more sense to change the time that schools start!

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,868 posts)
56. No. This was happening in places where
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 04:20 PM
Mar 2023

sunrise was significantly later during the winter, because of DST.

Although it's also true that most schools start too early, especially high schools.

Mariana

(14,858 posts)
58. Where I live, kids go to school in the dark in winter anyway.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 07:45 PM
Mar 2023

Of course, they could stop making the kids to go school so damned early in the morning.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,434 posts)
25. DST should be permanent.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 12:47 PM
Mar 2023

Sunrise at 4-5 am is ridiculous, and it sucks to be dark before 5 pm.

The only objection people keep making is kids waiting for buses. Maybe they should do what my parents and others did - teach them how to behave around traffic, and how to watch out for cars.

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
67. The headline doesn't really match the text.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:48 PM
Mar 2023

It is shifting the clocks, not whether we call the time 10 AM or 11 AM, that is harmful.

FloridaBlues

(4,008 posts)
48. During summer months it won't be dark at 4-5 pm sunset around 6 or later because
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 02:20 PM
Mar 2023

Of sun rotation with standard time and summer months.

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
59. Yep
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 09:05 PM
Mar 2023

Late summer evenings are great.

One of the weird things about the Caribbean is that it’s warm, but the sun goes down just after 6, with a little variation through the year. It took me a while to realize what seemed “off” and it was having warm weather and early sunsets.

Stargleamer

(1,990 posts)
53. But others will suffer. . .
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 03:24 PM
Mar 2023

from the 2nd article, see link above:

"However, research has shown both heart attacks and fatal car accidents increase after the clock falls forward in the spring. Children also end up going to school in the morning while it is still dark – with disastrous consequences.

When President Richard Nixon signed a permanent Daylight Saving Time into law in January 1974, it was a popular move. But by the end of the month Florida’s governor had called for the law’s repeal after eight schoolchildren were hit by cars in the dark. Schools across the country delayed start times until the sun came up."

also (https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1087712609/permanent-daylight-saving-time-could-have-health-downsides):

JOHNSON: So we all have body clocks, and they align to the sun. And studies have shown that even after switching to daylight saving time, our hormones stay with the sun. And so we end up living our social life by a clock time, when we go to work and school, but our body's clock is on that sun times still. And so that leads to at least about an hour of misalignment. But parts of the country, especially in the western parts of time zone, are misaligned by about 2 hours. And so that, again, affects things like our health. It affects how we sleep. There's more sleep deprivation and poor quality sleep when you're more misaligned. And that in itself has effects that last the whole time we're on daylight saving time.

SIMON: And how could we pay for that in terms of our health?

JOHNSON: So some of the research we have the best data on is increase in obesity. We also have a lot of good data now from multiple studies about cancer. And so some of these studies look at just the effect of where we are in the time zone and places in the country that are more aligned by an hour, similar to time change, have about a 12% increased risk in cancer. And certain types of cancer like liver cancer are even higher than that.

Polybius

(15,462 posts)
54. We all vote for our interests first
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 03:32 PM
Mar 2023

I'll never support anything that gives me darkness at 7:30 in July.

Stargleamer

(1,990 posts)
57. your interests could expand to include the health and well-being of others
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 06:06 PM
Mar 2023

and not just of yourself. One's interests don't have to be set in stone.

I may have had an interest in eating grapes when the UFW was imploring us not to buy them, but I included my interest in them getting a decent contract with the growers as part of my interests too so I honored their boycotts. Just like I don't cross picket lines even if it is the faster way to get from point A to point B.

Polybius

(15,462 posts)
82. I'm all for supporting other's interests if it doesn't drastically effect or inconvenience me
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:58 PM
Mar 2023

And sundown at 7:30 in June drastically effects and inconveniences me. Hard pass.

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
68. All studies, I'm sure, which
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:58 PM
Mar 2023

also find people who start their day closer to noon - and don't go to sleep until well after midnight - are lazy, evil, etc. Just like people who are left-handed.

I'm not buying it.

I'm willing to read the studies - but I'm not going to just accept the work of a talking head who says there are studies. There is a lot of body-clock-related prejudice - and everytihng I've seen posted in the last couple of days (1) misrepresents what the documents referred to actually say (e.g. the document says changing is harmful v. an assertion that the document says DST is harmful) or (2) refers to studies which aren't disclosed and thus can't be reviewed to evaluate scientific integrity.

Stargleamer

(1,990 posts)
75. Well then your skepticism does have merit
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 02:28 PM
Mar 2023

as skepticism typically does.

However, this document for the J. of Biological Rhythms (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0748730419854197) , as others do, DOES say explicitly say that DST is harmful:

"The chronic effects of DST have not been studied directly, but we know that DST increases the time difference between the social clock and the body clock (Borisenkov et al., 2017). More and more studies show that time differences between the social clock and the body clock challenge our health (Koopman et al., 2017; Mota et al., 2017; Parsons et al., 2015; Roenneberg et al., 2012; Rutters et al., 2014; Wong et al., 2015), are associated with decreased life expectancy (Borisenkov, 2011), shorten sleep (Borisenkov et al., 2017; Wittmann et al., 2006), cause mental (Foster et al., 2013; Levandovski et al., 2011) and cognitive problems (Díaz-Morales and Escribano, 2015; Haraszti et al., 2014), and contribute to the many sleep disturbances in our societies that are estimated to cost approximately 2% of the gross domestic product (Hafner et al., 2017). If we established DST throughout the year, the chronic effects would become more severe not only because we have to go to work an hour earlier for an additional 5 months every year but also because body clocks are usually later in winter than in summer with reference to the sun clock (Kantermann et al., 2007). The combination of DST and winter would therefore make the differences between body clocks and the social clock even worse and would negatively affect our health even more."

Also from the J. of Clinical Sleep Medicine ( https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/full/10.5664/jcsm.8780 ) :

"DST is less well-aligned with intrinsic human circadian physiology, and it disrupts the natural seasonal adjustment of the human clock due to the effect of late-evening light on the circadian rhythm.(25) DST results in more darkness in the morning hours, and more light in the evening hours. Both early morning darkness and light in the evening have a similar effect on circadian phase, causing the endogenous rhythm to shift to later in the day. There is evidence that the body clock does not adjust to DST even after several months.(26) Permanent DST could therefore result in permanent phase delay, a condition that can also lead to a perpetual discrepancy between the innate biological clock and the extrinsic environmental clock, as well as chronic sleep loss due to early morning social demands that truncate the opportunity to sleep. The chronic misalignment between the timing of demands of work, school, or other obligations against the innate circadian rhythm is called “social jet lag.”(27) Studies show that social jet lag is associated with an increased risk of obesity,(28) metabolic syndrome,(29) cardiovascular disease,(30) and depression.(31) One study found that in the fall, during the shift from DST back to standard time, there was a reduction in the rate of cardiovascular events,7 suggesting that the risk of myocardial infarction may be elevated because of chronic effects of DST.(32) Social jet lag associated with DST may be worse in the western-most areas within a given time zone, where sunset occurs at a later clock time.(33) Adopting permanent DST also would undo the benefits of delaying start times for middle schools and high schools.(34)"

Ms. Toad

(34,082 posts)
78. The second study focuses primarily on the impact of changing from one to the other
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:31 PM
Mar 2023

And the portion which focuses on DST v. ST (1) assumes everyone has the same biological clock and (2) focuses on the discrepancy between biological clock and enviromnental clock as the source of the concern.

While I agree that the difference between environmental clock and biological clock is detrimental to health (I've lived with it for more than half of my life), a single hour is not a significant discrepancy. My natural sleep cycle is from 2 AM (or later) to 10 AM (or later). The discrepancy between my biological clock and the environmental clock has been - for more than half of my life - has been on the order of 4-5 hours. Which is the point I was making. Legislated time and environmental conventions, not to mention moral judgments about the character of those of us who would not normaly wake in the early morning, assume that everyone's biological clock is biased toward rising early.

The second also focuses primarily on the difference between biological clock and environmental clock. (And, inherently, assumes everyone has the same biological clock.)

I've been living with the prejudice against having a minority biological clock all my life. The assumption, both explicit and implicit, is that someone whose clock works like mine is lazy. Despite the fact that I've rarely worked fewer than 60 hours a week, and more often worked 80, and as high as 100. And despite the fact that when I am forced to be awake at 6 AM I am nearly as functional as I am at midnight - unlike most of my early bird peers who can barely function after 9 PM. That prejudice, unfortunately, bleeds over into reseasrch like this. The difference between biological clocks and envioronmental clocks (regardless of where your own personal body clock is set) is entirely a social construct - and is largely based on prejudice against late risers. DST does make that difference worse, in my case about 20% worse. For folks on the other end of the biological clock spectrum, it makes it better.

The up side is that at least both of these meta-analyses focus on the fact that it is the social construct (an artificial discrepancy between how we have arranged our society's hours and when people are naturally awake) as the problem.

FloridaBlues

(4,008 posts)
45. Congress wanted to review studies. The US tried it for 2years back
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 02:19 PM
Mar 2023

In 60 or 70’s but decided not to keep daylight savings year round. Too dark in mornings for a lot of state’s. If memory recalls.

Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #46)

Polybius

(15,462 posts)
50. They never did anything to stop it
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 02:37 PM
Mar 2023

The Senate voted last year to make Daylight Savings Time permanent. However, Nancy Pelosi never brought it up in the House, so now that it's a new Congress, they must start over.

Ace Rothstein

(3,177 posts)
55. I'd rather keep it as is than do permanent standard time.
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 03:33 PM
Mar 2023

Hard pass on a 4:15am sunrise for 2 months every summer. I also like the 8:30pm sunsets.

Mariana

(14,858 posts)
76. Sunset at 4:15pm in December sucks too.
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:19 PM
Mar 2023

Where I live the kids go to school in the dark in the winter anyway.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,868 posts)
60. The exact times of sunrise and sunset throughout the year
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 09:57 PM
Mar 2023

depends entirely on how far from the equator you live. As well as where you are in your particular time zone. Having lived in various parts of this country, I've experienced lots of differences.

Personally, I'm okay with DST but the current system has it starting at least a month too early, and ending at least a month too late.

I would vastly prefer permanent standard time year round, not DST year round.

Silent3

(15,246 posts)
63. How far you are from the equator (latitude) changes the variability of the length of a day
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:10 PM
Mar 2023

You longitude, however, must be figured in for when the sun rises and sets (unless your using old-fashioned local mean solar time).

With timezones, one particular longitude will be the same as local mean solar time. The further east you are, the later the sun rises and sets. The further west you are, the earlier rise and set times will be.

I just happened to have moved from the eastern edge of Eastern Time (New Hampshire) to the western edge (Ohio) about seven months ago. Even when I was in NH, at odds with many around me, I preferred the idea of permanent Standard Time.

In Ohio, permanent Standard Time would be even better, and permanent DST would be awful.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,868 posts)
65. I have likewise lived sometimes on the eastern edge of a time zone,
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:19 PM
Mar 2023

sometimes on the western edge. These days I'm smack-dab in the middle of my time zone. Which is nice.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
62. That is what I thought
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:03 PM
Mar 2023

But they still did the change last spring and fall and now so maybe for next fall it will pass, I hope so.

Brother Buzz

(36,449 posts)
64. FWIW, DU has already shifted to daylight savings time
Sat Mar 11, 2023, 10:18 PM
Mar 2023

It's like 6:17 PM on the west coast, and the DU timet stamp is already saying saying it's 7:17 pm, 8 hours before it officially changes on the west coast. What's up with that?

ecstatic

(32,720 posts)
73. Yeah. I found out last November that it's not the case
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 02:22 AM
Mar 2023

I was pissed, even though I think we gained an hour at that time.

LowerManhattanite

(2,390 posts)
74. Remember the "permanent" DST of the early seventies...
Sun Mar 12, 2023, 03:43 AM
Mar 2023

Despised it. Those morning school bus rides in the dark were just awful.

Have no problem with the spring / fall switches since. It’s a couple of weeks of adjustment and there you are. Dig the summer late sun. 🤷🏾?♂️

Celerity

(43,461 posts)
87. the law they want to pass is to have permanent DST, NOT to stop it. Perm DST is great IMO.
Mon Mar 13, 2023, 08:05 AM
Mar 2023

Especially when you live as far north as I do (Stockholm).

I HATE the 2 PM or so darkness that soon comes when we fall back to Standard time.

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