I think it probably is time to withdraw from Bakhmut

[tornado34jh]

It's not looking good. It doesn't show the grey areas, but basically they are in a bad spot.


I'm not a military strategist or anything, and I don't claim to be one, but after months of fighting, I think right now there is not much strategic value to keep fighting there except perhaps the railroads, but those probably got destroyed as well, and if they stay too long, the Ukrainian forces will lose a lot if they get encircled. We've seen how brutal Russians are to Ukrainian POW's. Bakhmut may be a Pyrrhic victory for Russia, but I feel being encircled in Bakhmut will be worse for Ukraine. So I think they should withdraw from Bakhmut, get into a better position, maybe attack the southern parts of Zaporizhia Oblast, and try to split the Russian army in two.

[wnylib]

1. I think it's a decision for Ukrainians to make.

[tornado34jh]

5. True, I am not disagreeing about that

However, the question becomes, how much longer can they stay there? If they get encircled, what do they do? I get that a lot of them want to keep fighting there, but losing a lot of forces due to encirclement is something I don't think they can really afford to have. Yes, it is up to Ukraine ultimately. I don't know how many forces they have there, but I just am not seeing the progress that I would like to see.

Unless there is some way for them to push back the Russian army or attack it from a different direction, I just don't think it would be good for Ukraine to stay in Bakhmut with the threat of encirclement and they lose a lot of forces where they could use it for other areas, such as in the southern parts. I mean, with the front lines being hundreds of miles, I don't see how the Russian army can spread out their resources evenly across the entire front line, so there has to be some areas where it is stretched thin and vulnerable. If they can attack that, it will leave the Russian army with numerous losses. To me, from the outside looking in, it seems like most of their forces are concentrated on the eastern part of Ukraine, but I don't think it is the same throughout the entire front lines.

[wnylib]

8. I think that Ukrainian mitary leaders are in a better

position than we non Ukrainian civilians to know when to hold the line and when to withdraw. They are not infallible, but they do know the risks and have proven to be good strategists so far.

[tornado34jh]

13. I understand that

But again, unless the maps that I am seeing are wrong, I just don't see the progress I am hoping to see. I was hoping they would maybe try to attack the northern flank north of Soledar. Again, maybe there is something going on there that I'm not aware of, but if they are going to try and hold Bakhmut, I would think it would be a good idea to try and attack the northern flank north of Soldear.

[wnylib]

14. So send Zelenskyy an e-mail. No doubt

he is anxiously waiting for an American armchair general to come forward and direct his army.

[tornado34jh]

18. Did I ever claim I was a general? I said it right from the beginning I was not

With that being said, I have seen other videos posted on DU (not uploaded by me) of I believe someone saying that Ukraine is attacking this area and what not, so if that isn't correct, then I guess most of the videos of Ukraine then are wrong. We know how most of the news works, it's never about accuracy. Why do you think I don't usually watch most, if any mainstream media and look for independent media? It's because most of them are about sensationalism and money. I would never have uploaded something like this if I didn't think it was going to be at least somewhat honest about what is going on. We all know it is hard to get accurate news these days.

[Bev54]

2. Well the attacks from Wagner Group, around Bakhmut, has decreased significantly over the last 2 days

according to the ISW. Whether they are pulling back or just trying to get victories in other small villages around the area they are not sure.

This was reported by the Kyiv Independent at 5 am Ukraine time Mar 16.

[Hekate]

3. I think it's time for the US to withdraw from Florida & let the Russians have it....

Makes about as much sense.

Also, the line about the brutality of the Russians to POWs is just asinine. Russian soldiers are trained to be brutal from the get-go. They rape and torture civilians. Why on earth would we counsel the Ukrainians to give in to them?

About the Russian military:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216563534

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216603609

Also, “we” are not fighting there.

[sarcasmo]

9. Don, is that you?

[tornado34jh]

10. Okay

But are you trying to tell me that all these maps and all that are wrong? If there is no indication of any change in Bakhmut, why do the maps show that the Wagner Group has advanced?

[BootinUp]

4. I would take any war reports especially

Ones about Bakhmut with a grain of salt. Both sides use information/misinformation as another war tool.

[tornado34jh]

7. True, but again, I keep hearing

Oh, they have repelled gains from Russia, or that they are counter attacking, but where is the evidence? I look at the maps on this site:
https://liveuamap.com/
What evidence is there to show that there is any progress going on Bakhmut or the surrounding areas? Unless it hasn't been said yet, I have yet to see proof of any gains. It seems like that area hasn't changed in months, so am I missing something, or am I getting the wrong information?

[wnylib]

12. You are probably missing a lot since

you are an American arm chair general thousands of miles away from the front without inside information on strategy. The Ukrainians are seasoned fighters on the scene who know their capabilities, the risks, and the enemy from first hand experience.

Of course they know more than we do about their situation. Why wouldn't they? It's not like they need to make their progress, plans, and strategies public knowledge to American civilians sitting safely in our homes thousands of miles from the actual fighting.

[tornado34jh]

15. Maybe

But I was hoping to see some progress in at least some areas surrounding Bakhmut. Needless to say, I feel like there isn't as much progress as I would like to see. Maybe they have some sort of plan to at least prevent the partial encirclement from closing in. But I would hope that they will have something of a counterattack within the next few months.

[wnylib]

17. Whatever.

[niyad]

16. You know, there were at least 16 videos in one scroll on youtube that I saw

today, and there were basically 16 different views on what is going on.

[tornado34jh]

19. I see that

The thing I am looking for is some sort of progress that is being made. I don't expect this to be major, and I am well aware that this war will probably last quite a long time. But again, it remains to be seen as spring rolls on if there will be a major offensive Look, I hope Ukraine launches a major counteroffensive within the next couple of months, preferably in areas where the Russians don't have as many forces out there or were not expecting (like the offensive we saw last summer in the Kharkiv region). All I am saying is I hope we see more progress. Knowing how Russia loves to talk about victories of the past, we know that Putin will want something positive to occur in Ukraine by Victory Day on May 9th. Nothing would make me happier than him having to come on up and say we got nothing or we lost a bunch of territory.

[FM123]

6. The Ukrainian military seem to know exactly what they are doing there.

A soldier from Ukraine's 93rd Mechanized Brigade destroyed a Russian Su-25 jet over Bakhmut, according to a commander.

The announcement comes after the head of Ukraine's President’s Office, Andriy Yermak, also said forces from the 93rd Mechanized Brigade had shot down a Russian military plane near Bakhmut.

Commander Oleksandr Syrskyi of the Land Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said the Russian military "continues to unsuccessfully try to surround the city and advance."


https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-03-15-23/h_217d6a951b7de209e7ddebf79e80e3b0

[tornado34jh]

11. So are the maps that I am seeing wrong?

The person I follow on Youtube, Denys Davydov, he is Ukrainian, and I think he would have a pretty good idea of what is going on there.