This is a DISCUSSION board. What follows is not offered as a series of legally conclusive facts.

[Atticus]

I am qualified only to offer my opinions about what should have already happened and what MUST now happen.

Trump should have been abandoned by the Republican Party numerous times for many reasons. Why? Because he was obviously a vulgar immoral lying sociopath and they had advertised themselves to be decent American patriots. Is that not sufficient reason?

Trump should have been convicted the first time he was impeached--- and the second time he was impeached. Each "acquittal" was transparently the result of a shamelessly corrupt Republican majority acting as "jurors". Whoever coined the phrase "a Parliament of whores" had to have had them in mind.

And, now,--- well, I don't want to attempt to explain in this brief post what should be or should already have been done. I have read much posted here by those who believe all is going well and justice will be done and by those who believe justice has been too long delayed and is likely never to be done. Frankly, I go both ways from day to day. Some proponents of each view make compelling arguments.

But, what I will say now is this: if Trump is not indicted, prosecuted, convicted, sentenced to prison time and barred from ever again holding any public office, America as we know it will cease to exist.

Please don't bother trying to explain how, even if the system works as it should, Trump may never be punished. If you will stop and think about such an "explanation" perhaps you will see that such an outcome would prove my point.

In a truly just world, Trump dies in prison.

[PJMcK]

1. Agreed

The United States has become a country I hardly recognize.

Growing up, I saw the U.S. moving mostly in progressive ways. Today, not so much.

Good post, Atticus.

[Atticus]

11. Thank you. Those of us who saw this country improve steadily and legally decades ago must

insist that democracy can work if enough are willing to get in "good trouble".

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

2. Amen to that.

If he's not held accountable in a court of law I will never be able to look my grandkids in the eye and tell them how great the system in the US is. Because if he's not made to pay it proves 'all men were NOT created equal'

[Atticus]

8. Thanks. nt

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Well phrased and expressed

I can’t find fault with any opinions you expressed.

We agree on what is at stake with these investigations.

I get annoyed when folks express “opinions”, that are phrased with factual certainty, about what will be the outcomes of the various investigations, or the state of mind of Garland, Willis, Bragg, etc.

[Atticus]

7. Thank you. nt

[ShazzieB]

24. I hate those posts, too, Fiendish Thingy!

Those posts where someone flatly states the negative outcome they fear as if it's an established fact always make me want to argue back, "You do not know that. That may be what you fear will happen, but you're talking about something that hasn't happened yet." I used to argue with those posts pretty often, but I've gotten tired of it and mostly just roll my eyes now.

I honestly think lot of this comes from people trying to protect themselves from disappointment. I actually kind of get that. When you feel like you've been disappointed over and over again, expecting continued disappointment can feel a lot less scary than the idea of maybe getting your hopes up and being disappointed again. But when people post that kind of stuff EVERY TIME someone posts anything the least little bit hopeful, it REALLY gets on my nerves.

I understand why some people are afraid to get their hopes up, but I wish they could find a way to deal with it other than constantly telling other people not to hope.

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. Indeed- it's a way of coping with uncertainty. Nt

[JETTBHEART]

4. Why should Trump be abandoned by the Republicans

Republicans need him and he needs them. I found this article helpful. [link:https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/the-right-wing-gop-plan-to-kill-education|

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. In a truly just world Richard Nixon would have died in prison.

I'm still angry that he did not.

[Atticus]

6. If he had, I doubt we'd now be dealing with the likes of Trump. Thanks. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. I was living in the DC area at the time of Watergate.

Even though I did not work for the federal government, it was obvious that in those final weeks almost everything federal government had come to a complete standstill. It was quite bizarre.

[Atticus]

12. I was then a young idealist collecting quarters and signatures. The signatures were on a

petition demanding that "Tricky Dick" be impeached. We got hundreds. The quarters were to pay Western Union to telegaph that demand and signatures to Congress.

I still recall the sign carried in the protest parade down State Street in Chicago: "NOBODY LIKES A CROOKED DICK!"

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

20. Nice. Thank you for that.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

10. I believe that TFG will be prosecuted by the DOJ in addition to the NY and GA cases

First of all, the DOJ is prosecuting or has prosecuted 1000 rioters and intends to prosecute another 1000 rioters. That has taken a ton of resources which is one reason why Garland needed a special counsel. BTW, I saw that the DOJ got a warrant for the cell phone data for everyone who was in the capitol and so it is only a matter of time before a good number of these rioters are arrested and prosecuted.

Second, I am comfortable that TFG will be prosecuted by the DOJ. Jack Smith is now litigating the speech and debate issue with Pence and the crime fraud exception with a couple of TFG's attorneys. It appears that Smith has already litigated the executive privilege issue with a number of witnesses who have had to appear and testify after the judge ruled on this issue. The courts have been moving these issues through fairly fast and I expect Smith to prevail on all of these challenges. These court challenges take time and Smith needs to get the testimony of Pence and these attorneys.

Smith just subpoenaed 20+ Mar-a-Lago types and a couple of attorneys. Somehow Smith knows of a specific telephone call between TFG and a couple of the attorneys. This type of sweep tells me that Smith is locking down the testimony of people who TFG may want to call as witnesses.

Building a case takes time.

[Joinfortmill]

19. Thank you.

[NewHendoLib]

13. Totally agree.

[Ohio Joe]

14. Agreed

Last edited Thu Mar 16, 2023, 11:43 PM - Edit history (1)

And well said.

[housecat]

15. Thank you Atticus. I agree with you completely

[Baked Potato]

16. T***p and his ilk are a big FU to America,

to include Veterans, Union workers, Police, Fire, Medical. Also, service workers at all levels and occupations.

The tie that Republicans exploit is the tie that binds them all: Misogyny and racism.

Democratic messaging needs to disregard high minded thought and concentrate on how Democratic policy helps “traditional” Americans.

As a starting place, do the opposite of what Republicans do.

[LoisB]

17. Well said and I agree.

[Joinfortmill]

18. I agree. America is at a pivotal moment. I have faith we will get through it.

[dchill]

21. In a truly just world, he'd already be there (in prison)...

...for at least a couple of years, now.

[Aussie105]

22. The trouble with a lot of people . . .

is that in their normal lives, they get away with little things.

They strive for a bigger, more important position in the scheme of things so they can try to get away with bigger things.

Someone like George Santos - that is probably the biggest motivation of all.

Too many Trump/ Santos types in politics.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. Unfortunately TFG is close to President Joe Biden in a potential

match up.

How ludicrous that is is irrelevant.

How to beat him is ALL that's important.

We can hope but that ain't good enough

[B.See]

25. I agree 1000 PERCENT

This treasonous m----- who likes to accuse others of treason, should've been tried and CONVICTED for TREASON long ago.

[BaronChocula]

26. You know what Trump is?

Charles Manson with money.

[Meowmee]

28. Sadly this is already no longer the country it was whatever that was

Millions murdered by covid and almost no one even cares about that. With that mass murderer still walking free after so many crimes…

Who knows what will happen. I hope he drops dead from natural causes asap, that is the only way to get rid of him for good.


Whatever happens it won’t bring my father back. But knowing he is walking free, and doing his nazi rallies while people discuss him on tv while he runs for the THIRD TIME AND STILL NOT CALLING HIM OUT is TOO MUCH.

Others must pay for their crimes as well.