Opinion Why white Christian nationalists are in such a panic

[usonian]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/03/19/poll-religion-christian-white/
https://archive.ph/7O06M
Opinion by Jennifer Rubin
Jennifer Rubin writes reported opinion for The Washington Post. She is the author of “Resistance: How Women Saved Democracy from Donald Trump.”

emphasis mine

This group feels besieged because they are losing ground. ... “As recently as 2008, when our first Black president was elected, the U.S. was a majority (54%) white Christian country.” By 2014 the number had dropped to 47 percent, and in 2022 it stood at 42 percent.

The group that has declined the most is at the core of the MAGA movement, the group most devoted to Christian nationalism. “White evangelical Protestants have experienced the steepest decline. As recently as 2006, white evangelical Protestants comprised nearly one-quarter of Americans (23%). By the time of Trump’s rise to power, their numbers had dipped to 16.8%,” Jones explains. “Today, white evangelical Protestants comprise only 13.6% of Americans.”

The immovable object:
In some sense, White evangelicals’ desperate efforts to cling to political power and demand adherence to a set of outdated cultural norms only make the problem worse. Not many 20-year-olds (part of the most diverse, inclusive generation in history, one steeped in climate science and tech) would leap at the prospect of living in a state where abortion is unattainable, gays are ostracized and secularism is bashed.

The irresistible force:
But the demographic clock cannot be turned back. No one can claim to be patriotic defenders of democracy when they decide their declining numbers justify anti-democratic voter suppression or even violence. In short, MAGA White Christians have painted themselves into a corner where the majority rejects their outlook and anti-majoritarian tactics cannot keep them in power forever. A dramatic transformation would need to happen for this movement to return to pluralistic politics.

So, how many Andy Dufresne's are there in MAGA land who
"will crawl through a river of shit and emerge squeaky clean"

That would take a soap event horizon.

Just overwhelm them with GOTV.
Speak with young people.
Get them as energized as we are here.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. Evangelicals are only 13.6% of the population.

They just make a lot of noise.

[ananda]

2. And do a helluvalotta damage!

Let them keep shrinking.

[jayschool2013]

23. To be clear, that's White evangelical Protestants

That 13.6 percent doesn't include evangelical and far-right Catholic groups, latino evangelicals and other religious extremists.

[Hortensis]

24. Right. And anti-liberal evangelicalism has infiltrated many sects that

aren't traditionally known for evangelicalism and whose traditional doctrines don't reflect it.

On the plus side, "And that decline may yet accelerate, because they skew older than the population as a whole. Put differently, there are far more baby boomers in this group than Generation Z members."

[Trenzalore]

33. The conservative Catholics can be lumped in with the protestants

That increases the number a little

[Hortensis]

35. Yes, those who have espoused strains of evangelicalism.

This topic of evangelicals reasonably worried about demographics, though, makes me think of the Christian Far Side in general, many of whom are zealots disposed to extremism, authoritarianism, fundamentalism. They're believers that America IS God's special Christian nation under attack by Satan's forces in what are the end times.

For them, declining evangelical demographics mean Satan's currently prevailing. tRump's calls to save America (him) from the final, existential threat of "Democrats" and QAnon's similar apocalyptic and antisemitic white nationalist influences conflate with the need to fight for their Christian nation.

[mucifer]

32. yup. Orthodox Jews usually side with Evangelicals.

[gatomedianoche]

3. Dangerous bunch of theocrats

Their numbers may be shrinking but they control the GOP supermajorities in several states. They are a threat to freedom and democracy

[usonian]

5. And the damn Extreme Court. Welcome aboard!

Their goal of weakening federal regulations benefits not only business, but has led (IMO) to a Balkanization of the U.S. rather than the previous civil war. Putin's delight.

It will take time and effort to reverse obviously unconstitutional bullshit, especially when the court is backing it.

From earlier posts (enjoy)
https://democraticunderground.com/100216524810
The best, the ONLY cure to WhiteChristianNationalism, race baiting, mysogyny, etc. is WINNING

https://democraticunderground.com/100216777247
Every Accusation is a Confession.

https://democraticunderground.com/100217021793
LINKS, ACTION ITEMS, Fighting Facts

“Democracy in Crisis: We’ve Been Headed Here for Decades.” Part 1of 8
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/6/2044226/-America-2021-The-Good-the-Bad-the-Ugly
Read all 8 to get the "plan" in detail.
This is all a Russian plan. Started years ago.
https://pastebin.com/raw/evbnN5y7

• ENCOURAGEMENT

Why California Politics Is Always 15 Years Ahead
The Remarkably Prescient 15 Year Rule Means Trump & the National Republicans
are on the Verge of a Spectacular Collapse
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=326155

Shameless self-promotion (for the greater good, of course)

[erronis]

8. Thanks for your "shameless" promotion - very useful information.

It'd be great to have some of this and other material pulled together in a visual mind-map with timeline and tag traversals.

I know there are other great resources but having a hub that links through to them would also be good.

[irisblue]

12. .

[OMGWTF]

4. There is no need for religion if you have a conscience.

These unAmerican Talibangelical mofos have no conscience.

[usonian]

10. Reads from the fascist playbook. Pretty much verbatim.

Hitler, Franco, Putin and son.

Some "religious leaders" feel the rush of secular power and go down that slippery slope (It's a steep one!)

See this thread:
The theology of white, Christian nationalism
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016346240

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-theology-that-drives-white.html

There's a link in this article to another piece by Rick Pidcock, who nails the issues behind white, Christian nationlism amd shows why it is a danger to both church and democracy.

My reply:

I believe that the corruption of many evangelical leaders is an important piece of the "four horsemen" of this fascist movement. They are:

• Corrupt "religious leaders"
⦁ Oligarchs
⦁ Politicians, and
⦁ Our perpetual curses: racism and anti-semitism.

Each empowers and corrupts the others.
This pattern repeats through history because it appeals to greed, hate and deception.

My opinion.

[ToxMarz]

14. They still need it to amass power and wealth

[Hortensis]

26. And adequate capabilities of moral intelligence are also needed.

What triggers conscience, aside from primitive levels of worry for consequences to self?

Many are simply not able to understand moral issues on their own (like algebra or interpreting poetry). Those churches whose missions include moral teachings have always been a primary source for inculcating moral standards in society. As they decline, what's left?

Google the term "moral intelligence," and a large proportion of hits relate to business leadership due to the crying ethical inadequacies and problems exposed in the workplace. They have to try to deal with it.

But, attempts affect far too few. Far too late. Far too inadequate. As for when it's top management that's seriously deficient...

And when voters, most wanting to be good but many not understanding how to be, are "instructed" by scoundrels and seek candidates who "represent" the same moral failings...

[flying_wahini]

6. This is exactly why the GOP cheats because they supported the WRONG side of society.

IMO, There are PLENTY of Republicans that don’t support the MAGA mentality but willl never speak up against them. I have a few liberal friends who have even left their churches because
MAGA evangelicals have ruined it all for them.

MAGA Evangelicals have ruined it for everybody.

[Wonder Why]

7. Simple. They are neither Christian nor nationalistic

They totally ignore the teachings of Christ.

They don't care about their country. They just care about themselves.

[Celerity]

17. that's a classic 'No true Scotsman' (appeal to purity) fallacy

They are neither Christian

They are 'Christian'.

They just have abhorrent, horrific (IMHO) beliefs in the way the interpret it.

The same thing occurs when people try to claim violent Islamicists (Wahhabism-derived and/or other types/sects) are not 'true or real' Muslims, or that radical RW Zionist settlers in Israel who murder Palestinians and illegally take their land are not 'real or true' Jews. Also, on a far broader scale in terms of numbers, Sunni Muslims claiming Shi'ites are not 'real or true' Muslims and vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

No True Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their generalized statement from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly. Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and similar counterexamples by appeal to rhetoric. This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", etc. Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt. The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

The “No True Scotsman” fallacy is committed when the arguer satisfies the following conditions:

not publicly retreating from the initial, falsified assertion

offering a modified assertion that definitionally excludes a targeted unwanted counterexample

using rhetoric to hide the modification

An appeal to purity is commonly associated with protecting a preferred group. Scottish national pride may be at stake if someone regularly considered to be Scottish commits a heinous crime. To protect people of Scottish heritage from a possible accusation of guilt by association, one may use this fallacy to deny that the group is associated with this undesirable member or action. "No true Scotsman would do something so undesirable"; i.e., the people who would do such a thing are tautologically (definitionally) excluded from being part of our group such that they cannot serve as a counterexample to the group's good nature.

[Fiendish Thingy]

9. And in a few short years, ALL whites (not just Christians) will be in the minority

By 2045, by most estimates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_demographic_decline


THAT’s what scares them the most.

[machoneman]

19. I agree in part: its not just that they will be in the minority, its the voting patterns changing..

...that do not favor them. Look at it this way: if minorities voted their way, they'd welcome this change in demographics now wouldn't they? They know the vast majority reject their ways. Hence, cheating at the ballot box is their only hope.

[roamer65]

25. Doesn't scare me one bit.

Things change.

Change is a constant in our universe.

But, my mindset is a minority view among European Americans.

[erronis]

11. I had just read Jennifer Rubin's piece. The comment section is also very informative.

Some of which is excerpted below:

2,000 characters remaining

Sort by
If you want a succinct description of what is poisoning our politics, you won't find a better one than Jennifer Rubin 's op-ed today.
Agreed.
(Edited)
-----------------
Yes but Ms. Rubin and everyone please stop referring to these anti-American bigots as "nationalists." They're only "nationalist" in the sense that they want THEIR deservedly shrinking slice of the nation to continue to have an unearned and excessive share of power and influence.

That doesn't make them "nationalist" because they're not "for" America. They're only "for" THEIR America - which is hardly America at all except in the reddest red precincts.

These people need to be politically crushed and reminded that in a democracy - spoiler alert! - the actual majority should rule!

What a concept.

-----------------
FactFirst.
Right, they are "Nationalist Christians," shortened to Nat-C's.
The grandchildren of the Ku Klux Klan. Remember the Klan weren't the outcasts of their generation, they were the business, religious and civic leaders of their areas, united to maintain power. Rubin misses the alternative that the Christian Nationalists have chosen: maintain power by eliminating democracy.
Okay call them Nazis
The descriptive term is "White Christian Supremacists". Nationalism doesn't apply to the party which wants to ally with Russia and other anti-democratic regimes.
Their “Nationalsm” is like the “News” in Fox Propaganda
How about "sectarian nationalist"?-- better than the friendly propaganda of "populist"-- it's a trend that's been sweeping the world, unfortunately: Hungary, Russia, India, Italy. There's been some push back in Brasil and the UK-- but France is definitely under threat. It's only sometimes religiously based, as it partly is in the US.
No... she has it correct. Nationalism is the "religion" of always believing your country is right. No learning from the past because nothing was wrong in the past. "We" love our country and you don't. We love our country because it has done nothing wrong. And it seems that they can only love it if it is perfect. Accepting that there have been wrongs is not in the equation.
Call it what it is: neofascism. The Times and others were SO SLOW to start using terms such as "the big lie," "Trump's lies," and just the word "Lie" because they were (ahem) afraid of alienating audiences (*cough* Fox *cough*).

They are neofascists. The Post has used the term "Leftists" before, which is a loaded term a la Frank Luntz, but not necessarily wrong. So let's use the counterpart: neofascism. It's what the MAGA movement has become.
"They're only 'nationalist' in the sense that they want THEIR deservedly shrinking slice of the nation to continue to have an unearned and excessive share of power and influence."

But that's what nationalism is.

It's not patriotism, it's not working for the good of your country. It is the attitude that your nation, in this case, the Evangelican Christian nation, is superior to all others because of its origins, ethnicity, beliefs, etc.

This attitude is inimical to a country that relishes diversity and inclusion. It leads to the willingness to purge or subjugate all who don't conform to the nationalists' demographics and beliefs.

Just to clarify, not all Evangelicals believe this. Many oppose the far right radicalization of their religion.

We must be careful not to treat Evangelical Christianity as a monolith.

[usonian]

16. Thanks.

It's hard to capture meaning in 4 paragraphs.

Fascist playbook. See my comments above.
Not very original.

[FakeNoose]

13. They always were a minority

People who are sensibly raised as Christian/Catholic liberal-thinking Americans - and that includes many of us on DU I'm sure - well ... we can see how the hateful, racist ecumenical/evangelists cloak themselves as "Christians" and that allows them to say and do anything at all.

I don't know about you, but I've stopped calling myself a "Christian" because I don't want to be linked with them in any way. Our beliefs should be private and religion doesn't give us permission to be hateful or racist towards other Americans, regardless of THEIR beliefs.

Personally I think the reason for the decline in Christianity has not so much to do with how we worship, as to how we want to be seen by fellow Americans, and whom we choose to be linked with. As long as the Evangelicals continue to act in this manner, the numbers will keep going down. Hateful "Christians" deserve to be shunned by the liberal-thinking Americans, which is most of us.

[usonian]

15. Humility is the first thing to go.

I especially like the part about being "forgiven" as license to go out and do more evil.

[debm55]

20. If they are a minority, why are they doing so much damage to our country? I think there are more of

them or people who are not necessarily a part of the Religious Right that join in. Personally, I feel they are dangerous.

[usonian]

21. IMO, it's because an alliance of forces became a cult.

And it's hard to leave, and become "one of them" when "they" have been accused of every evil under the sun by the propaganda mill. Of course, it's entirely projection: "Every Accusation is a Confession."

The fact that Putin entered their conspiracy makes them very dangerous. Fifth-column destruction is all he can muster, and muster it, he does. Bought his way into the White House.

My amateur research said that people break out of a cult for various reasons including:
• Some sense of betrayal
• When the contradiction becomes too much to bear (especially the "outrage du jour"
• Hitting rock bottom
• And sometimes "gentle persuasion"

Not an expert in cults, but I do think that it's helpful that people "on the fringe" do break away, or just get disillusioned and stay away from the voting booth. (and gun shops)
Otherwise, it takes a very skilled therapist, and naturally, a willingness to acknowledge that there even is a problem ( not just "the other guy" ) and then deal with it.

Destruction is the "answer" when it's entirely a blame game.
Short-sighted and self-destructive?
Of course! It's a cult.

[erronis]

18. Nice statement. I agree - the pseudo-xians have tarnished the reputation of all true Christians.

In the name of power and money and dominion.

Not in the name of their founder.

But they don't give a damn.

[Sky Jewels]

30. The rise of the internet is a huge factor too.

People can instantly compare notes and start to see that the stories they’ve been told growing up are just mythologies like any others—Greek, Roman, Norse, etc.

[The Jungle 1]

22. It is not just a race issue affecting demographics.

Christianity is in a serious decline in the US. Only 22 percent of Americans attend church every week. We are not a Christian nation when no one shows up.

[JudyM]

27. "No one can claim to be patriotic defenders of democracy when they decide their declining numbers

justify anti-democratic voter suppression or even violence.” This one sentence says it all, so succinctly.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

28. Most of that group only pays lip service to the Bible

Could be part of the reason they're declining.

[usonian]

29. Young people are very perceptive and instantly see hypocrisy.

Not that I ever did.
I once asked my Mom to call the priest because the can of tuna said

[Sky Jewels]

31. White Christian nationalism needs to go through the

Grover Norquist process — shrink it until it’s small enough to drown in the bathtub.

[Trenzalore]

34. This is the reason for the Putin and Orban worship and turn to fascism.

In 2012 when Mitt Romney lost, the party leaders knew this. They came up with a plan to diversify the party. It was outright rejected and Trump bursted on the scene as the white nationalist were in denial of what was happening.

They aren't in denial anymore and now desire to set up an Apartheid country because they don't have the numbers to win demographically.