Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
2005 cartoon that might help baffled editors at the NYT understand why we went to war in Iraq (Original Post) kpete Mar 2023 OP
K & R...nt Wounded Bear Mar 2023 #1
Multi-Generational Warmongers Kid Berwyn Mar 2023 #2
+1000 CaptainTruth Mar 2023 #15
Spot on Alice Kramden Mar 2023 #3
I'm not so sure the NYTimes would care to get it. dmr Mar 2023 #4
The cartoon is specifically about Cheney and Judith Miller. thesquanderer Mar 2023 #8
She left the paper almost 18 years ago BumRushDaShow Mar 2023 #9
No they wouldn't gratuitous Mar 2023 #12
Another Thing Lost modrepub Mar 2023 #5
K&R LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2023 #6
KnR Hekate Mar 2023 #7
Did the NYT do something bad today? maxsolomon Mar 2023 #10
Yes, they were apparently prompted by this article, I think. Shoeless Louis Mar 2023 #13
thanks, I'll have to read it tonight. maxsolomon Mar 2023 #16
And if we STILL have to ask why, you know it was and still is calimary Mar 2023 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author Mblaze Mar 2023 #11
Back up the clock to 1997-2000 to really understand why. CaptainTruth Mar 2023 #14
PNAC DENVERPOPS Mar 2023 #22
"some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" CaptainTruth Mar 2023 #24
Thank You CT DENVERPOPS Mar 2023 #25
The Source of the Trouble Celerity Mar 2023 #17
The Iraq invasion was nothing more than a very hostile corporate takeover. OMGWTF Mar 2023 #19
"Hey, Dick Cheney, who should be my VP?" Thanks, W. czarjak Mar 2023 #20
NY Times 10/31/16 Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I.* Sees No Clear Link to Russia Botany Mar 2023 #21
Giant Space Lasers! Call Taylor Greene, stat! muriel_volestrangler Mar 2023 #23
I wasn't there... I was in the Southeast Asia War Games...took 2nd place.... albacore Mar 2023 #26

dmr

(28,347 posts)
4. I'm not so sure the NYTimes would care to get it.
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 10:10 AM
Mar 2023

Especially with the likes of Judith Miller on the payroll. They'll just rinse and repeat the same old shit because that's what they do.

That's pretty damn shameful. It was costly -- in both human life and treasury.

BumRushDaShow

(128,905 posts)
9. She left the paper almost 18 years ago
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 11:52 AM
Mar 2023
Reporter at center of CIA leak retires


Thursday, November 10, 2005; Posted: 10:16 p.m. EST (03:16 GMT)



NEW YORK (CNN) -- New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who went to jail for refusing to reveal her source during an investigation into the 2003 outing of a CIA operative, has retired from "the old gray lady," the newspaper announced Wednesday.

Her retirement takes effect immediately, according to the statement.

There was no immediate comment from Miller, but in a letter to the newspaper -- scheduled for publication in Thursday's editions -- she said she was quitting because "I have become the news, something a New York Times reporter never wants to be."

The 28-year veteran of the paper spent 85 days in jail for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating who revealed the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame. The agent's husband, Joseph Wilson, is an outspoken critic of the Bush administration.

(snip)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/09/miller.retires/index.html

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
12. No they wouldn't
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:06 PM
Mar 2023

Another little tidbit that seems lost to the mists of time is the weekly valentine to Dubya the Times would run every Monday, written by Elisabeth Bumiller. If cloying and treacly are your jam, Bumiller had your hook-up. The rest of us just skimmed it and turned the page, having just thrown up a little in our mouths.

modrepub

(3,495 posts)
5. Another Thing Lost
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 10:42 AM
Mar 2023

in the Iraq War follies was the free-market/right-wing hard on to showcase their "talents" in rebuilding Iraq into their version of the world. They'd take a "backwards" and repressed country and showcase how their ideology would transform it into a utopia (to show those pesky liberals how wrong their world view was).

One example I remember hearing about was how they were had a contractor set up a swanky tech savvy stock market exchange in Bagdad after the war. Prior to the war, Iraqis had traded stocks using chalk boards to record the price of a stock as it changed. You can guess what happened afterward all the high tech equipment was "given" to the Iraqis (at great contractor expense and I'm sure by companies well-connected to the Republican party); they went back to their chalk board.

You'll never hear the press talking about all of the free-market infrastructure we paid for that was an all out expensive failure.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
10. Did the NYT do something bad today?
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 11:57 AM
Mar 2023

I am a print subscriber, but I have only been able to skim the paper the last few days. I guess I missed whatever it is you're posting in response to.

Yes, I am aware of Judith Miller's enabling reportage.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
16. thanks, I'll have to read it tonight.
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:21 PM
Mar 2023

NYT really specializes in stupid headlines.

the question does linger. it was a really idiotic blunder and a war crime. bush & cheney should be in prison after an ICC conviction.

Response to kpete (Original post)

CaptainTruth

(6,589 posts)
14. Back up the clock to 1997-2000 to really understand why.
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:12 PM
Mar 2023

The PNAC, of course.

That 2005 cartoon doesn't address the "why," it just shows one of several techniques used to sell the war to the public.

DENVERPOPS

(8,817 posts)
22. PNAC
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 01:28 PM
Mar 2023

The complete guide, published in 1997, about ALL that the Republicans dreamed of doing in the near, and far reaching future.

As best I can recall, THE sentence in that document that was THE clue to the Iraq war/invasion was this:

Something like: "Of course, barring something like the surprise attack at Peal Harbor, it may take decades of work to complete all that we want to accomplish". Inferring that if something major were to occur, they could accelerate their entire wish list and shove it through in the fog of war. Which basically is what the leadership of the Republican Party did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That sentence alone, explained everything about why the FBI under Louis Freh TOTALLY ignored their own agents reports REPEATEDLY telling FBI headquarters about the owners of the schools that were training prospective people to fly commercial aircraft, (ie: passenger jets), were telling the local FBI about large number of mid-eastern individuals in their classes that were only interested in HOW TO ACTUALLY FLY THE LARGE JET AIRLINERS. The owners specifically told their local FBI agents, that 80% of their schools training was directed at take off's and landings, and that none of these mid-eastern students were the least bit interested in those areas of the training. THE ENTIRE CHENEY ADMINISTRATION AND FBI KNEW THIS, IGNORED IT, AND SAT BACK AND WAITED FOR THEIR EVENT THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO MASSIVELY ACCELERATE THEIR PNAC WISH LIST.
On the morning of 9/11, I was in the middle of nowhere, camping in Wyoming. I turned on the radio and listened to the reporting about Jet Airliners crashing into the world trade center. I sat there, having already read the PNAC and already having read small news clips about the woman FBI agent in the weeks prior to 9/11 that had was almost hysterical in reporting to Headquarters REPEATELY what the owners of the school were telling them..................

I sat there and said to myself, Oh My Fucking God, W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, FBI, etc allowed this to happen, and in fact helped set it up.

Anyone can research this easily, the info is still easily researched.............

CaptainTruth

(6,589 posts)
24. "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor"
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 04:30 PM
Mar 2023

That was the sentence.

What you describe is correct, & knowing everything I know about the PNAC (I could write a book) I believe the LIHOP theory (Letting It Happen On Purpose).

As you say, there were dozens of reports, like the flight schools where the hijackers wanted to learn how to take off & fly commercial airliners but had no interest in learning how to land. Cheney & the rest of the PNAC crew saw that something big was coming so they sat back & waited for their "new Pearl Harbor," in other words, letting it happen on purpose (LIHOP), so they could use it as an excuse to invade the middle east, the PNAC plan.

Also, connect these dots:

1) One of the PNAC's "key positions" in 2000 was:
"Control the new 'international commons' of space and 'cyberspace,' and pave the way for the creation of a new military service--U.S. Space Forces--with the mission of space control."

2) John Bolton was a member of the PNAC.

3) Bolton joined the Trump administration as National Security Advisor in April 2018.

4) In June 2018, just 2 months later, Trump announced "his idea" of creating Space Force.

Geez, WHERE DO YOU THINK TRUMP GOT THE IDEA FOR SPACE FORCE??? Bolton had to wait 18 years to accomplish that PNAC goal, but he did it. I didn't see a single news outlet catch that & report on it.

These guys don't go away, they play the long game & 99% of our press & population don't see it.

DENVERPOPS

(8,817 posts)
25. Thank You CT
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 06:34 PM
Mar 2023

Do you remember the monstrous cover up that Christy Todd Whitman, Bush's director of the EPA, did immediately after 9/11.

Her own people, and the USGS people were telling her repeatedly that Manhattan was a polluted area of EPIC proportion and that NO ONE should be anywhere near it due to the extreme toxicity of the dust, and the extreme potential of it causing cancer down the road. And she threw away their registered letters to her, for weeks after 9/11, and kept telling everyone the dust was no big problem.
Concrete dust in the lungs converts to acid, the amount of Asbestos in the dust was off the scale, all the Berilium? from crushed fluorescent light bulbs causes all kinds of problems if inhaled, and worst of all was all the computer screens with heavy metals in their parts that were pulverized and in the dust...... Like the guy said, a polluted area of EPC proportions......

There was a guy in a St. Louis newspaper who was following the story from day one, and the rest of the nation's media didn't say a word about it.

Later he did an expose' on why would she do such a horrible thing as to not alert rescue workers, and everyone else to at least don full face mask respirators........
Beyond her wanting to help Cheney/et al as much as she could, he finally figured out one reason she didn't shout out the toxicity:
She and her parents had huge amounts of GE stock. Travelers Insurance insured most of those Manhattan buildings and businesses.
The damages from inhaling the dust would have wiped out not only Travelers, but also probably GE in one fell swoop......
He characterized Manhattan as the single largest toxic waste site in the U.S., even worse than Hanford???Nuclear plant up in Oregon???

It is very refreshing CT to converse with someone who hasn't been duped by the Republicans all these 40+ years........

Oh and I love all the "authoritative conspiracy nuts" who tell people concrete will not burn so something the gov't did brought the towers down. That is the reason the hijackers hijacked the largest jets that were going to be traveling across the country, so they had the maximum amount of fuel on board..........
I am here to tell you, that yes concrete will burn, and that is precisely why they coated all the concrete supports with Asbestos. These nuts will tell you that the plane alone couldn't have caused the entire structure to collapse. Bullshit, a number of concrete support columns were destroyed, causing the entire weight above them to collapse, then that mass of weight hits the next floor and one by one the floors give way......Commonly called "Pancakeing" by the Fire people.......

Celerity

(43,337 posts)
17. The Source of the Trouble
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:22 PM
Mar 2023

very long, superb article, I will just post the final 4 paragraphs (it has almost 70 or so)

https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/

MAY 28, 2004



snip

While the Times has conducted its inquiry, Miller’s WMD coverage has also occasioned a series of less high-minded questions: namely, does Judy Miller live in an apartment divided? During the past year, three intriguing documents have been pushed into the public view that may shed light on this matter. Since 1993, Miller has been married to Jason Epstein, the legendary Random House editor who reinvented paperback publishing in the early fifties. Last May, in the New York Review of Books, Epstein published an excoriation of the Bush administration’s march to war. The war, he blared, was “a preemptive assault whose urgency has not been adequately explained and for which no satisfactory explanation, beyond the zealotry of its sponsors, may exist.” This can be rather effortlessly interpreted as a shot across his wife’s bow: Hadn’t Miller’s oeuvre painted a sufficiently frightening picture of Saddam’s arsenal?

Document No. 2 also appeared in the New York Review. Before I cite the article, however, it is necessary to say a brief word about the venue. Epstein was a founding father of the journal. His first wife, Barbara Epstein, remains an editor there. Therefore, the Review’s pages were odd ones to showcase a vivisection of Judy Miller’s reporting. But last February, the Review published the critic Michael Massing’s devastating analysis of Miller’s work. Document No. 3 helps set the Massing article in context. The same month that Barbara Epstein ran Massing’s piece, Jason Epstein paid tribute to her in a New York Times Magazine food column. Writing a poignant reminiscence of their 1953 honeymoon, he told readers: “The marriage proved to be bountiful. When after many years, it ended, the love that we celebrated on that December day [their wedding day] remained intact.”

Predictably, the editor’s note inaugurated a new round of grumbling inside the paper. Reporters complained that the note had mentioned no names, implicitly equating Miller’s sins with those of less-culpable reporters like Michael Gordon and Chris Hedges. Others remarked that it had been buried on A10, not a space normally reserved for serious statements about the paper. One Timesman speculated that these complaints would wend their way into the press: “The rumbling on this reminds me of all the Howell-Blair stuff. Once people started complaining publicly … the proverbial cat was out of the bag.” And of course, by making this observation to me, he had fulfilled his own prophecy. A few days later, Daniel Okrent, the public editor, was expected to unveil the conclusions of his own investigation, one he had vowed not to conduct because it concerned events that preceded his—and the new, kinder, more transparent Times’—arrival.

But making the process more transparent is easier than reforming the profession itself, which inevitably relies on people. People like Miller, with her outsize journalistic temperament of ambition, obsession, and competitive fervor, relying on people like Ahmad Chalabi, with his smooth, affable exterior retailing false information for his own motives, for the benefit of people reading a newspaper, trying to get at the truth of what’s what.

OMGWTF

(3,955 posts)
19. The Iraq invasion was nothing more than a very hostile corporate takeover.
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:39 PM
Mar 2023

Cheney The Dick made almost $40B from no-bid contracts for his wars of fun and profit. He and his dummy sidekick should have gone to The Hague for crimes against humanity. Rethuglicans are cold-blooded murderers. Have I told you lately how much I fking loathe them?

Botany

(70,501 posts)
21. NY Times 10/31/16 Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I.* Sees No Clear Link to Russia
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 12:45 PM
Mar 2023

Same old story sew disinformation in "the liberal media" and use that story as cover for their crimes.

* The NY FBI was well aware of the links between Trump and Russia in 2016 with the communications
between Putin's Alfa Bank and the Trump's campaign computer server and the top FBI Agent in NYC's
FBI Office, Charles McGonigal was on Putin's payroll and he got that headline put on the front page of
the NY Times.

albacore

(2,398 posts)
26. I wasn't there... I was in the Southeast Asia War Games...took 2nd place....
Tue Mar 21, 2023, 07:03 PM
Mar 2023

...but I hear the troops in the Iraq War are eligible for this patch.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»2005 cartoon that might h...