Unreal. I know these people probably mean well

[StarlightGold]

but WTAF?
In the WSJ today, it shows members of Lutheran Church Charities carrying Crosses for Losses for the 8 shooting victims in Texas. I mean, how fucking arrogant of them to assume the victims were Christian.
I saw this on the front page of the actual paper; I tried looking for it online to provide a link but couldn't find it.

[MagickMuffin]

1. I saw the news segment on channel 11 news

I found them distasteful. Some are extremely tall. They’ve turned it into an even sadder event by their actions.

Very disturbing.

[yardwork]

2. Trying to assuage their guilt, I imagine.

[hlthe2b]

3. You will really be upset to learn how the Mormons have for a hundred years baptized those

whose post-mortem identities came to light (usually from searches of their extensive ancestry records), regardless of religious persuasion. Before all the modern-day DNA ancestral search services (which STILL link to LDS records, btw), the Mormons had the most complete records anywhere. And yes, they would baptize those total strangers, regardless. I suppose the dead don't complain...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead

As for those lost in these horrendous shooting events, I suppose any remembrance may be of some small comfort to the families, but I'd sure rather see these people use their time rallying for some effective gun control.

[Mariana]

20. At least the Mormons do it discreetly.

Yes it's obnoxious, but they aren't showing off so everyone can see and admire how pious they are, like these people.

I'm distantly related to one of the early big shots in the LDS church. Everyone in my extended family on my dad's side who is deceased has been baptized. I will be too, when the time comes.

As I understand it, the ritual doesn't force anyone to be a Mormon in the afterlife, but gives them the choice if they decide that's what they want to do. That's not so bad, I guess.

[Effete Snob]

4. These people never consider that someone might not believe in their god

But since the dead can't speak for themselves, their silent voices are hi-jacked.

[Bettie]

5. Christianity is becoming more performative lately

on Easter, every place we went had people standing on the street corners with crosses and signs. Whatever happened to just going to church?

Never saw that until the last two or three years.

ETA: this is more "praying in the middle of the street" behavior, along with the eternal assumption that every person wants to follow their religion.

[hippywife]

6. There's a guy...

who stands on the grass berm between the street and the lot of an extremely busy large gas station at a busy intersection and preaches, he has signs and even uses a bullhorn sometimes. He does this through the entire morning rush, every single morning and has been doing it for many years. He's in the easement, so the gas station can't evict him, nor can the police.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

27. When wasn't it performative

Have you been to any of their services? All performative, with bonus points going to the Catholics for sheer pageantry. And the evangelicals? I've seen musicals with less staging.

Outside of their facilities, they've never lacked for putting on a show of how much holier than thou they think themselves. Bothering people at home, at shopping centers, in parking lots, on street corners--and anywhere else they think they can push the religion. Wailing and moaning about how horrible those of us who don't buy their rubbish are in all of the above public places. Putting their tracts in bathrooms, library books, on restaurant tables. Putting their book in hotel rooms, as if they think everyone is just dying to be sold their ridiculous bill of goods, even when they're trying to get away from it all.

Even a substantial amount of their "good deeds" are tainted from their inexhaustible need to prop up their fragile egos by putting on a performance to show everyone how great they are compared to everyone else. The homeless can scarce find a bed and a meal around here without having to listen to their sales pitch performances before, during and after getting "help." I've been in the hospital a bunch of times in recent years, and they have to put on their greatest BS ever sold show to me, even there. Despite how I went out of my way to put on my entry paperwork that I am NOT religious.

Let me now when it stops being performative. Because that's all I see from far too many of them.

[Bettie]

40. I get "you are so mean about religion"...

so I soft pedaled it a bit.

You are entirely correct, but the standing on street corners for Easter is a new one to me.

[LakeArenal]

7. I think people should lighten up.

Not every Christian is a hypocrite.

You ask how do they know victims are Christian. How do you know they are not?

I feel the assumptions are equal.

Being an atheist, I’m told some will pray for me. I always say thanks.

[BigmanPigman]

8. I thank them for "their" prayers

They know I am an Atheist and my opinions are tossed out the window, just as long as they get get to force their beliefs on me and then accept them and then be grateful too. Instead of telling them what I think of their prayers and their public attitude I choose to save having a heart attack for later since that surely will happen if I ever really told them where to put their Tots and Pears"⁰

[LakeArenal]

9. I hang around with different Christians than you apparently.

Like 80% of my family and friends. None of them push anything on me. They don’t laugh at my atheism.


They are well meaning and are not into any missionary work.


Praying for victims of crime comes naturally to them. They are nice people who mostly vote Democratic.

Edit: I have a dear Buddhist friend who believes and prays to a dragon god whom he believes saved him when sick with COVID. He prays at whomever for crime victims too.
He’s always trying to enlighten me.

It’s all the same to me and I know he’s a Democrat too.

[intheflow]

11. Bigots gonna bigot.

It's a manifestation of people becoming what they most abhor. I'm an atheist with a Masters of Divinity. Went to a super-liberal Methodist seminary where 70% of the grads were women and at least 25% of the whole student body was LGBTQ++. Broad-brush Christian smearing is just as ignorant as conservative Christians broad-brushing atheists as pedophiles. It's disturbing to see, but also somewhat predicable in human relations.

[debm55]

34. Agree, And it goes on all the time. I thought the TOS has in it no discussing religion.

[Brenda]

25. Buddhist friend prays to a dragon god...um

Which part of Buddhism says pray to a dragon god?

Sounds made up.

[ecstatic]

31. lol! nt

[LakeArenal]

47. All religions are made up. But this is a real belief.

[Hortensis]

14. Lighten up is my response also.

Angry reaction shouldn't swamp generosity of heart toward others.

Have a

[LakeArenal]

16. Thanks.

[GuppyGal]

17. +1000

[Mariana]

22. It would be much more impressive if they prayed and didn't tell you.

Christ told his followers to pray in secret.

[LakeArenal]

26. Mathew 6:5. Just cuz I don't believe doesn't mean I'm uninformed.

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

30. And then he turns around and says the opposite

You do realize that...right?

In the very same chapter of the same book!

Worse, he tells people not to do mindless, repetitive chanting, but in the very next breath prays--and tells people what to pray, with that "lord's prayer" that christians trot out all the time--i.e, a mindless, repetitive chant!

Do any of you actually read the thing?

[debm55]

37. The Lord's Prayer is not the prayer said today, the original was in Aramaic. Then it was translated

into Greek and to English. If you want the original words of Jesus , you have to read the Aramaic version.

[intheflow]

42. He was giving an example of how to pray.

It was his followers who turned it into a mindless chant. Think about it as a recipe that calls for specific measurements but then can (and arguably should) be improvised to individual tastes. But most Christians act like Jesus is Betty Crocker, whose bland cooking is beyond tweaking.

[BlackSkimmer]

45. I agree.

I know Christians who pray for others they feel they can help. Perhaps they are praying to their god to help others, no matter the faith of the others?

I'm not religious, but I think there's nothing wrong with that sentiment.

[BlackSkimmer]

46. I agree.

I know Christians who pray for others they feel they can help. Perhaps they are praying to their god to help others, no matter the faith of the others?

I'm not religious, but I think there's nothing wrong with that sentiment.

[Sky Jewels]

10. Where was their god when the gunman was loading his weapon?

Where was their sky wizard when the Nazi was mowing down children?

If "free will" is their "answer," then there's no godly grand plan, I guess. Or if there is, it is pure cruelty.

Their deity is either evil or worthless. I'm glad it doesn't actually exist.

[Aristus]

12. +1.

[LakeArenal]

13. Not all think Christian God is vengeful

I can’t believe I’m sticking up for Christians.

I don’t believe any of it.

But I love so many well intended Christians that aren’t any of the negative things said on this thread.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

19. I'm not Christian either, and I fully agree with you.

Also, let's not forget who is Christian: Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, etc.

[Sky Jewels]

44. Thanks.

I hear the "what about the good Christians?" thing a lot, but, TBH, I don't think it means much. Just because some good people are Christians doesn't undo the unfathomable damage that religion/Christianity has done over centuries, especially to women. I think these people would have been good people even if they hadn't been indoctrinated into supernatural beliefs as children. Many people do good things, and their actions are not motivated by fear of a vengeful god. We evolved as primates to be highly social and interdependent, and it makes sense to help each other and treat each other well during this, the only life we'll ever get. ... Just my two cents.

[Sky Jewels]

23. But if they believe their god is "loving"

then ... ... How do they reconcile that with a supernatural entity that causes or allows carnage, especially of children?

I'm not saying they're bad people, I'm just saying they must have to twist their brains into pretzels to worship their god as a loving and caring deity.

[LakeArenal]

24. Well therein lies the crux.

I’m just saying lumping them as one ideological cult is unfair and not true.

Again, I’M AN ATHEIST. I don’t have to explain anything about how they come to their conclusions pretzel-like or not.

[Sky Jewels]

43. I didn't say you had to explain anything.

I'm posting my thoughts on this, as I'm entitled to do on a discussion board. You chose to respond to me.

I'm sick of this "thoughts and prayers to God!" bullshit after mass slayings. "God" is used as an excuse to do nothing useful. And it's just bizarre how many people fail to make the connection that if there is is only one god (their belief), that it has to be either a cruel, murderous asshole, or completely weak (or nonexistent, the most likely conclusion, but of course they won't go down that path). We tiptoe around this because we don't want to "offend" people, but that coddling has harmful effects, like I said, in that protects people (especially politicians) from taking action. It's so easy for people to throw up their hands and say "Oh well! God's in charge and 'he' has a plan!" Apparently the plan involves causing or allowing people in the USA, including many children, to be mowed down by gunfire.

The whole thing is sick and twisted.

[Drum]

29. ...

[BlueCheeseAgain]

15. More info about the group here.

https://abc7chicago.com/crosses-for-losses-greg-zanis-handmade-mass-shooting/6134894/

It's part of a program to call attention to the problem of mass shootings.

[Hortensis]

21. Thanks for this. "I'm very, very devastated with the whole thing.

I can't stand the thought of doing nothing."

For 23 years, he built the crosses -- along with stars of David for Jewish victims and crescent moons for Muslims -- by hand. "The whole country is made in the image of God."

When Mr. Zanis was dying he turned his work over to Lutheran Church Charities to continue.

[debm55]

32. Thank you for the link, It is very interesting.

[GuppyGal]

18. If they are Christians then they're going to carry a cross.....what would you like them to

carry?

[GenThePerservering]

28. There's always something to complain about, isn't there?

even when people are trying to help.

[debm55]

33. Agree.

[Raine]

35. Agree. Some like to keep themselves in

a constant state of agitation, they can always finds something to get stirred up about.

[LakeArenal]

48. I wish I had thought of this comment about ten replies ago.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

36. here are the crosses

[DemocraticPatriot]

39. I understand what you are saying---

but the Lutherans are among the much more liberal churches--
it would be a mistake to equate them with the evangelicals
or any "pro-Trump" church...


And maybe you misunderstand their demonstration---

does a loss of human life not continue to be a loss of human life,

no matter what religious denomination calls it 'a loss'?


Maybe you misinterpret their "assumption".


All I know about it is what you wrote here,
but that is all I know about it.

[hatrack]

41. I wouldn't call Missouri Synod Lutherans "liberal" by any stretch . . .

Though I don't know the affiliation of the church these people belong to.

[iemanja]

49. How do you know they weren't?

And why do you assume it's all about you and your sensitivities? The church is paying their respects in the way that has meaning to them. There is nothing wrong with it. I seriously doubt the family members are put off.