Stained glass window shows Jesus Christ with dark skin, stirring questions about race in New England

[dalton99a]

https://apnews.com/article/jesus-christ-stained-glass-dark-skinned-49c3d84ab5a939beba621bc1ae54eda0

Stained glass window shows Jesus Christ with dark skin, stirring questions about race in New England
By MARK PRATT

WARREN, R.I. (AP) — A nearly 150-year-old stained-glass church window that depicts a dark-skinned Jesus Christ interacting with women in New Testament scenes has stirred up questions about race, Rhode Island’s role in the slave trade and the place of women in 19th century New England society.

The window installed at the long-closed St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Warren in 1878 is the oldest known public example of stained glass on which Christ is depicted as a person of color that one expert has seen.

“This window is unique and highly unusual,” said Virginia Raguin, a professor of humanities emerita at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, and an expert on the history of stained-glass art. “I have never seen this iconography for that time.”

The 12-foot tall, 5-foot wide (3.7 meters by 1.5 meters) window depicts two biblical passages in which women, also painted with dark skin, appear as equals to Christ. One shows Christ in conversation with Martha and Mary, the sisters of Lazarus, from the Gospel of Luke. The other shows Christ speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well from the Gospel of John.

The window made by the Henry E. Sharp studio in New York had largely been forgotten until a few years ago when Hadley Arnold and her family bought the 4,000-square-foot (371-square-meter) Greek Revival church building, which opened in 1830 and closed in 2010, to convert into their home.

...




A detail of a nearly 150-year-old stained-glass window depicts Christ speaking to a Samaritan woman, in the now-closed St. Mark's Episcopal church, Monday, May 1, 2023, in Warren, R.I. The nearly 150-year-old stained-glass window from the Rhode Island church that depicts Christ and three New Testament women with dark skin has stirred up questions about race and the place of women in both biblical and 19th century society. (AP Photo/Mark Pratt)

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[MutantAndProud]

1. But I thought everyone stayed white as a saltine cracker in the desert sun

How is this possible

[yardwork]

24. White as a saltine! Stealing!

[MaryMagdaline]

2. Interesting!

[Tickle]

3. We are obsessed with color

I'm so tired of being defined by my color. Even at work;, I was looking for a long term residential for a client, one house was for AA only the other house was for Hispanic men only. I stand here with an Asian trying to find, an Asian house...???? I don't know what has happened to us. I thought I had seen the worse in the 60s but I was wrong. Even news papers will read white man kills black man or black man shoots white man. Why must we do this?
Jesus was black no he's polish.

The latest rage over Cleopatra . Her color is irrelevant it's her context that we are interested in. 🥴 Am I the only one feeling this way

[intheflow]

31. Yes, we're obsessed by color for very good reasons.

When you’re talking about housing, I assume you mean residential placements in a social services environment because it’s illegal to discriminate in rental units and for house sales. In terms of where people live/sleep, they need to feel safe and not be forced into living with people (usually white) who have historically attacked them verbally and physically. If you don’t “see color” you’re not seeing the whole person. If you don’t have an Asian-specific home placement, and all the other shelters/housing is full, that is not the fault of the people running the other houses, it’s an insufficient political will to care for indigent/mentally ill/economically struggling citizens.

[Dios Mio]

37. No, you're not.

Why could it possibly matter what color an imaginary being might have been?
Who ever contemplates such thoughts should get a life.

[misanthrope]

54. Not at all

While I understand the depth of it and the gravity of its ramifications, I am utterly exhausted by the reality we have created through our racial constructions.

[dembotoz]

5. fix the leak and get a bottle of windex

nothing of significance here

[Baitball Blogger]

6. There is also a black Madonna in Montesserat, Spain.

Not sure why it is only called a black Madonna and not a black Madonna and child.

[Layzeebeaver]

9. what about the fallen madonna?

Clearly the boobies are the problem...

[dalton99a]

13. +1. Detail:

[Layzeebeaver]

22. I would love to see this on a highway billboard in Florida

just sayin'

[dalton99a]

40. Hmm. Nipples are the work of the devil

[Layzeebeaver]

45. one must agree!

Last edited Mon May 15, 2023, 05:54 AM - Edit history (1)

If so, I love the Devil!

EDIT: I'm a total atheist. To me, neither god nor the devil exist. But the characteristics of both as described by theists, can be found in every person.

[intheflow]

58. Well, I know *mine* are.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. Erm, I thought we were talking about dark skinned Jesus and Madonnas.

[Layzeebeaver]

21. its all the same really

skin colour? that's just another schism.

hence my post. It was a Madonna. She was LIGHT SKINNED - oh... and her boobies were on display as well- OMG! Fire all the teachers!!!

We all just need to relieve ourselves of the colour issue (and all the other issues like it) and focus on a little bit of humour and A LOT of healing...

[Dios Mio]

38. I saw this.

Some believe it was colored by decades (or centuries) of candle smoke.

[Baitball Blogger]

41. That's what they say...but...

We were there and the tour guide said that they came up with the candle smoke explanation because it was more palatable to many (read racists) who did not embrace the idea of a black Madonna and child.

[Layzeebeaver]

46. and if it was candle smoke, then...

all other panels in the glass would be similarly affected.

complete bullshit.

[Baitball Blogger]

48. Right.

[Mike Nelson]

7. I think...

... their skin color looks normal. It looks indeterminate - which is probably the best way to depict Jesus Christ. Most likely his skin color was like others in the time and location. Of course, he could also be light-skinned, as he is often portrayed... If he had lighter than average skin, it would probably have been commented on in the Bible. I don't recall any mention, so I would go with the average. It's very strange that this even matters!

[dalton99a]

11. What about facial hair?

Bearded:



Clean-shaven:





Four out of five dentists say bearded

[Dios Mio]

39. It's the knees man. Nobby from a lifetime on his (or her) knees.

[Mike Nelson]

52. I think...

... most men did not shave their faces back then... but, again, I don't know. Jesus Christ in the NT is a standout. I know his speaking was uncommon, but I'm not sure about his appearance. He might have looked different... unordinary... but I don't recall any description. So... I'm going to go with bearded.

[yardwork]

25. Jesus was portrayed with white skin in European art to look like Europeans.

If Jesus lived, he was a middle eastern Jewish man so he definitely wasn't light-skinned. Our perception of his appearance is based on the appearance of wealthy Europeans in the Middle Ages who commissioned paintings that looked like themselves.

[HAB911]

8. LOL, TOO FUNNY

[The Jungle 1]

10. Wanna watch a radical right wing Christian explode.

Explain how Christ was from the middle east and was not white. The people around him were not white. The children did not have blond hair and blue eyes.
Then stand back and watch the fire works.
For the record radical right wing Christians are not Christians and we are not a Christian nation. I don't know what religion the radical right is but it ain't Christianity.
It is kinda ironic that the vast majority of depictions of Christ are a lie.

[Bucky]

17. The Bible is pretty clear on people like that

They're worshiping Mammon and just calling it Jesus

[yardwork]

26. That's what I think. It's right there in the Bible, what they're doing.

[The Jungle 1]

51. Christ did not teach us to worship capitalism.

Which is something else that makes all republicans explode.
Christ was real clear about the money changers.

[paleotn]

30. Christianity is a Jewish sect.

Modified by Saul of Tarsus, i.e. Paul, and others to appeal to a predominately Greek and Roman audience since circumcision, dietary rules, etc. just weren't going to play outside the Levant. However, it's still a Jewish sect. The fundigelicals just can't wrap their little heads around that.

[Karadeniz]

47. Or that there's not a shred of evidence that he really existed, at least evidence that's not ancient

forgery, since the "biographical" gospels were written by Gnostics, not the Orthodox. All the talk in them about hidden truths and Paul's reference to mysteries and saying there were two levels of followers, many levels of heaven, many gods (Paul). These are symptoms of Gnostic Christianity, not Orthodoxy. The non historical aspects of Jesus as a real person have led me to wonder if the Essene Teacher of Righteousness, generally accounted as a real person, wasn't actually a representation, too. If so, they (Jesus/Salvation) and the Teacher of Righteousness would symbolize the perfect soul, the soul capable of understanding spiritual truths and instructing others on how to develop our soul's growth. By the way, the truths hidden in the parables concern the soul, not Jesus, and those truths are shared by both Gnostic and Essene theology.

It's a lot to take in and definitely only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

[Happy Hoosier]

50. I've been studying early Christianity a lot

…. And it’s kinda shocking how much of the modern Christian mindset wasn’t even a thing until centuries after Jesus’ supposed resurrection.

[hootman]

12. Jesus was from the Middle East. He most certainly had at LEAST a very good "tan'

[Paladin]

16. Agreed. But think how upsetting that stained-glass image must be...

...to all the folks who grew up with nothing but images of Jesus as a dead ringer for Brad Pitt or Tab Hunter.

I hope Christ is getting a gentle laugh out of it.

[TheRickles]

27. To put it even more starkly, Jesus looked more like Osama bin Laden than Brad Pitt.

I'm just talking about appearance, not behavior, obviously (I think).

[2naSalit]

14. Better protect that!

Some zealot is sure to object with some kind of physical attack on it.

[COL Mustard]

15. See, they were clearly

Woke back then! At least that’s what Southern Baptists would say.

[multigraincracker]

18. The current use of the word "race" is invalid

according to science. There more genetic differences with- in the so called races than there are between them.
I try to use the term "bigotry" rather than racism.

[paleotn]

28. Agreed. Compared to our closest Hominoidea cousins, we're kind of inbred.

Makes sense whether one accepts the bottleneck theory or the fact that we just haven't been around very long as an identifiable species. Our differences are the product of variations in a tiny number of genes and are really meaningless compared to the diversity in species that have existed far longer than Homo sapiens. Everything else when it comes to "race" are memes between our ears. One of the foolish downsides of having a big brain.

[multigraincracker]

29. Most of the traits that are used to define "race"

are about culture. When it comes down to physical traits, they are on a curve, not a black and white divide.

[misanthrope]

56. Which means they are learned.

Culture is still homo sapiens chief tool of adaptation. We are strongly selected to follow its push and pull.

[misanthrope]

55. Thank you!

It's like watching children argue that they are vastly different because one has a freckle on their elbow while the other doesn't.

[multigraincracker]

57. Words are not the thing.

They are only used to separate one thing from another. Like a freckle on an elbow. It’s all an elbow.

[pansypoo53219]

20. 'white skin' glass harder than brown glass. middle east tan.

[paleotn]

23. Jesus, if he existed as a single individual, was Semitic.

Predominantly dark skin, brown eyes and dark hair. Same if he's a composite character taken from several wise men in an age where Messiahs were a dime a dozen.

[Aussie105]

32. All depictions of Jesus, God, Buddha, etc

Are merely projections of the current cultural status relevant at the time.

I bet Jesus didn't even speak English . . . or walked on water.

But if it is important that your Jesus is white, blue eyed, has long blonde hair, wears clean white robes, is tall and speaks with a distinct American accent, you really are shallow and missing the whole point of religion.

[niyad]

34. "walking on water" reminded me of one of my favourite jokes. A priest, a rabbi,

a minister, and a witch are out in a boat fishing. The rabbi says, "I forgot something on the bank," gets out of the boat, and walks to the bank. A few minutes later, theminister does the same. And shortly after that, so does the witch. The priest decides to join his friends, gets out of the boat, and promptly falls in. The minister says, "We should have told him where the rocks are." The witch replies, "What rocks?"

[stopdiggin]

33. more from article

giving a bit about why this depiction ended up in this church (when it was so clearly unusual and an outlier for both time, culture and congregation). It would appear that this was clearly meant as a deliberate statement by the person that commissioned the window. To which one can only respond - "Brava."

The window was commissioned by a Mary P. Carr in honor of two women, apparently her late aunts, whose names appear on the glass, Arnold said. Mrs. H. Gibbs and Mrs. R. B. DeWolf were sisters, and both married into families involved in the slave trade. The DeWolf family made a fortune as one of the nation’s leading slave-trading families; Gibbs married a sea captain who worked for the DeWolfs.

Both women had been listed as donors to the American Colonization Society, founded to support the migration of freed slaves to Liberia in Africa. The controversial effort was overwhelmingly rejected by Black people in America, leading many former supporters to become abolitionists instead. DeWolf also left money in her will to found another church in accord with egalitarian principles, according to the research.

[ChazInAz]

35. I live in Atchison Kansas.

At our Benedictine College, overlooking the Missouri River, there is a spectacular sculptural group of the Holy Family entitled Return From The Temple. All three are depicted as Ethiopian Jews, with Jesus being about Bar Mitzvah age. Here in very White Kansas, on a Roman Catholic (Hence conservative) college, it is a decidedly revolutionary thing!
The set of life-sized bronzes delights me, chiefly because the image of Mary is a dead ringer for a much-loved lady friend of mine!

[MineralMan]

36. Jesus Would Have Been a Swarthy Fellow

Dark hair, and brown eyes, too.

[keithbvadu2]

42. What color/ethnicity was Jesus?

What color/ethnicity was Jesus?

It depends on whose wall his portrait hangs.

Ben Carson's Jesus - not the evangelicals' blond, blue-eyed Jesus

[Shermann]

43. Man created God in his own image nt

[Beastly Boy]

44. Jesus effin' christ! Who in their right mind would think that Jesus was white?

Only in New England would it stir a controversy!

[Mosby]

49. The Samaritans are leventine, like most Jews.

https://www.noemamag.com/ancient-samaritan-sect-straddling-israel-and-palestine-celebrates-passover-on-west-bank-hilltop

[Sky Jewels]

53. Christianity is such a sexist, patriarchal religion.

(Yes, many/most are. But Christianity is the dominant "faith" of this country.)

The fact that it's even controversial that he's depicted here interacting with members of what Christianity spins as the lowly, lesser, unimportant, unworthy-of-power sex tells you everything.

The framing of the Christian mythologies is pure women-hating, women-erasing b.s. Of course that omnipotent creator/ruler of the universe was written as a male part. And of course his offspring, "the savior of mankind," was also written as a male role.

I wish progressives would stop buying into the nonsense.