Low-key fascism tweet: "The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy"

[Swede]

Nightly PSA: The increasingly common slogan "The United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy" is, on the one hand, illiterate nonsense and an assertion of ignorance, and on the other, a low-key expression of fascism.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[roamer65]

1. We are a constitutional and a federal republic.

A federation of states under a constitution that starts “We the People…”.

The following quote rings truer now than it did 200 plus years ago.

“Madam, we gave you republic…if you can keep it.”

- Benjamin Franklin

[reymega life]

8. and for the first time there was no peaceful transfer of power into a new administration

by the republicans

[SharonAnn]

29. A Democratic Republic. Elected representational republic.

[padfun]

2. But the states are Democracies..

I think. Some might not be.

[roamer65]

3. Therein lies the problem.

How do you keep a federal constitutional republic together when it’s states are pursuing wildly different political paths?

[MarcA]

33. Eventually, you don't. n/t

[uponit7771]

49. Set federal voting standards

[uponit7771]

48. RIGHT !!

[FBaggins]

69. Not any more so than the country as a whole

The constitution does require that they have a republican form of government after all

[walkingman]

4. I think the US is an Oligarchy not a Democracy and so many like to say.

[brewens]

9. Not much of a meritocracy either unless you are working class. It kills me that their leader is one

of the worst examples of that in our history. He needed every dime of that family fortune he was burning through to end up where he is now.

[SharonAnn]

30. Hmm, you've got a point.

[MarcA]

35. Increasingly so.

I believe President Carter pointed this out some years back.

[orthoclad]

43. Yes. In 2015,

after the Citizen's United ruling, which gave oligarchic wealth a direct say in elections.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-63262/

FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY Carter had some harsh words to say about the current state of America’s electoral process, calling the country “an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery” resulting in “nominations for president or to elect the president.” When asked this week by The Thom Hartmann Program (via The Intercept) about the Supreme Court’s April 2014 decision to eliminate limits on campaign donations, Carter said the ruling “violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system.”

[Freddie]

5. It's their "reasoning" to keep the ridiculous Electoral College

Which is not a part of the definition of “democracy” or “republic”. It’s another way of saying that minority rule is totally fine.

[orthoclad]

45. the concept of electors

makes me think of the Holy Roman Empire.

[multigraincracker]

6. My answer

There are only two types of Constitutional Republics, one is a Democratic Constitutional Republic and the other is a Banana Republic.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

28. Because the traditional Republican party is dead. It's been replaced by banana Republican

[Maru Kitteh]

66. I rather like that.

Very concise. Think I'll try to remember that one.

[ismnotwasm]

7. This gets regurgitated every few years

A constitutional republic like ours (constitutional mean we have a fucking constitution) is a type of democracy.

These people never change and never grow. The very definition of conservative

[Generic Brad]

19. It's reminiscent of sovereign citizen nonsense

They are like: Look! I found the magic words that change everything!! Constitutional Republic. Olly-olly-oxen-free!!!!

[William Seger]

20. Dittoheads really thought Limbaugh was on to something with this

Turns out, he was just ON something.

[SunSeeker]

36. Is that where this stupidity comes from?

So these idiots don't know a republic is just one form of democracy?

[William Seger]

40. As someone once said, Limbaugh was a stupid person's idea of a smart man

He said LOTS of stuff that was basically meaningless word games, but the dittoheads always took it as great insight.

[underpants]

42. Thank you.

[DBoon]

67. I heard this started long ago with the John Birch Society

They thought democracy was bad because it led to socialism

[Hortensis]

10. The one time that was pulled in me I said "we all know what we have."

And then something about what we have to protect and no way we're letting it be destroyed. The schmuck kept trying to argue terminology, but I refused to play.

All those who care DO know what they have to fight for. Those who get warm fuzzies thinking of their Leader protecting them from too much freedom will just have to lump it.

[louis-t]

11. It is a very ignorant statement.

Targeting ignorant people. Jerry Falwell used to start sentences with that statement. And of course, like all republican propaganda, it is designed to get ignorant people to repeat it. My response to it has always been: "Democracy is the style of government, republic is the entity." They words themselves are not synonymous.

[stopdiggin]

12. this saying has been around for a long time

(at least since former 'school days') With it's meaning being no more complex (or nefarious) than as a distinction from 'direct democracy' - which was posited to be something like a town hall meeting - every citizen has a vote on every issue. And thus 'republic' or representative form of government and governing - where the citizen's vote is at one or more removed from actual laws and legislation. And in fact, almost every modern democracy takes a somewhat similar form.

What the same phrase is intended to represent now ...
I really don't have a clue.

Suspect it has something to do with the rejection of a vast swath of law (and authority) in deference to 'individual liberty.' Which is crackpot history and legal legerdemain - and frankly I have neither the time or patience ...

[Mister Ed]

13. Like saying, "I don't have a car. I have a Chevy."

or

"I don't have a dog. I have a German Shepherd."

Such willful ignorance.

[uponit7771]

50. +1

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

14. Here is how I shut down THAT argument

I point out that every single Communist/Socialist country is a Republic too.

Republic...not an inheritable monarchy.

[Yavin4]

59. Yep. Ask them what the "R" in "USSR" stands for.

Last edited Sun May 14, 2023, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Then wait for their pea brain to function.

[RegulatedCapitalistD]

63. Russia doesn't scare them...

But China does

[Yavin4]

65. Okay. Ask them for the official name of China.

It' the People's Republic of China.

[localroger]

15. What is geneally meant by this is that we are not a direct democracy

Democracy as referenced by this quote is generally understood as direct democracy, a system where everyone votes on important decisions and each person's vote counts equally. A republic is generally understood as a democracy where the people vote on representatives, and the representatives vote among themselves on important decisions. This separation of the public from direct decision making, and unequal representation of different populations, are both deliberate features which the Founders built into the US Constitution. This was partly for practical reasons, since communication was slow in the 18th century and direct democracy simply wouldn't have been practical, and for political reasons to reassure certain powers that they would be safe from the whims of a potentially volatile public and to entice certain states to be willing to join the union at all. That we are still living with these now obsolete and unfair features and that they were deliberately placed in our Constitution is a matter of historical fact.

[Bucky]

18. Right, but of course direct democracy is not the default form of democracy

Particularly for any group of people living over an area bigger than 10 square miles or having a population of more than a few thousand, a direct democracy would be physically impossible. And there are many ways in which we have direct democracy, however, even in our bigger communities.

Recalls, referendums, resolutions, and constitutional amendments in many state elections are living examples of direct democracy in the United States. And in every state the direct election by simple majority (or simple plurality) of state officials makes us a democracy. That would be a representative democracy and in this world that is the overwhelming default for every nation that allows or pretends to public legitimacy.

The people who say we're a republican not a democracy are patrols and should be ignored. They're the flat earthers of the social sciences

[Bucky]

16. As a government teacher I can tell you the words have different meanings

The word Republic comes from the Latin res publica, meaning of the public affairs. The two words are not synonyms because you can, indeed, have the Republic that's not a democracy. That is not our tradition.

In the strictest sense a republic literally can be any form of government that's not a monarchy. If citizens are equal under the law, then you've got a republic. But that would include places like Gaddafi's Islamic Republic of Libya, the People's Republic of China, the revolutionary theocratic Republic of Iran.

When the US government was founded in 1789, the word democracy was not yet a patriotic heartstring. George Washington used the word interchangeably with mobocracy. It was Thomas Jefferson and to some extent the French revolution that changed that sentiment. We think of Thomas Jefferson is the founder of the historical Democratic Party, but until 1800 exclusively referred to as faction as the Republican Party. The most famous quote from his 1801 inauguration was "We are all Republicans; we are all Federalists."

But the emergence of the Democratic Republican Clubs in support of his candidacy gradually changed it connotations of "democracy."

We are unquestionally a democracy and a republic. The two words have different meanings, but they are in no way mutually exclusive. It is the Jacksonian Era removal of all property requirements for voting, followed by the 13th, 15th, and 19th amendments to the Constitution that made the United States de jure and de facto a democracy as well as a republic.

[TwilightZone]

22. Agreed.

The terms are not synonyms and we are both a democracy and a republic. In basic terms, we're a democracy at state and local levels and a republic at the federal level, though that's an oversimplification.

[Bucky]

24. When Jim Jeffords switch parties, and flipped Senate control to the Democrats

I remember Mitch McConnell getting in front of a TV reporter's microphone and complaining it was a "violation of democracy" to flip Senate control like that.

Republicans might argue with you about words, but they'll never honestly argue about ideas. They're not interested in ideas, only power. And their words only exist to serve their power.

[mackdaddy]

17. A Republic, where our Representatives are Democratically Elected.

They seem to forget that part.

[carpetbagger]

31. Every morning they remember that and plot a return to the past.

Their goal is to restrict the electorate to people who look like them.

[Goodheart]

21. I always annswer with

a "constitutional republic" is a form of democracy, dumbshits.

[flashman13]

23. This is what thoughtful, reasoned, and meaningful intellectual discourse looks like. Bravo DU!

[Joe Cool]

25. Two main types of democracy

Direct and Indirect.
When someone says we are not a democracy, they mean we are not a direct democracy.
A republic is a form of indirect democracy.

Anyone who makes the argument that the United States is not a democracy must have failed junior high Social Studies.

[David__77]

26. The foundations of the US are not mass based democracy.

And the constitution itself does not establish that system.

[Chainfire]

27. The people who want to point out the difference will also tell you that Democracy is "mob rule."

[Paladin]

32. I've been hearing that shit for decades.

Dead giveaway for somebody you ought to avoid at cocktail parties.

[H2O Man]

34. The US Constitution

created a republic. No question about that. The government was not democratic in the early days, by any means. Things have changed, as the Constitution was ammended. Things became more democratic -- people other than white males became voters. People could vote for senators. Thus, in theory if not practice, we are a democratic republic.

There are distinct advantages to knowing the accurate history of this country. It allows one to recognize, for example, te actual threat o fascism.

Having a grasp of words' meanings is a good thing in this context. Republic comes from "res publica" -- or "a public thing," and implies rule for the good of all, by the most enlightened class of men. Democracy comes from "demos krateo," or "rule of the people," and is not a synonym, as it implies rule by the crowd, including those deemed less "enlightene" by the wealthy.

[orthoclad]

52. they want the "originalist" "Founding Fathers" concept

of a republic where the enslaved are 3/5 of a man and women don't count.

Only white males OF PROPERTY counted. You know, people with "skin in the game".

This was a major slogan of last year's Convoy movement, that we're not a democracy. They had a major intersection with the Proud Boys and insurrectionists, to the point where they harassed Fannone after a hearing and got the guy who protected him arrested.

I studied them for a while. National Park Service, Metro Police, and West Virginia LEO let them break laws right and left, day after day. But they were "constitutionalist" white "patriots".

[H2O Man]

55. Definitely.

People can use words correctly, but with bad intentions. And those you mention are definitely defined by bad intentions. And it is becoming all too common ...... I found, by no coincidence, that such talk started becoming a heck of a lot more common around 2008, when Senator Obama was elected president. I find that it is best to know the meaning of words and the history of the Constitution in order to debate them. For that matter, one should be familiar with Franklin's Albany Plan of Union, and the Articles of Confederation, in order to put the Constitution in the correct context.

[orthoclad]

56. And also the Iroquois Federation,

the Haudenosaunee, which many people believe to be the example the Founding Fathers used. A federated republic of eventually six sovereign governments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_Confederacy

"The Iroquois Confederacy or Haudenosaunee is believed to have been founded by the Great Peacemaker at an unknown date estimated between 1450 and 1660, bringing together five distinct nations in the southern Great Lakes area into "The Great League of Peace".[24] Other research, however, suggests the founding occurred in 1142.[25] Each nation within this Iroquoian confederacy had a distinct language, territory, and function in the League.

The League is governed by a Grand Council, an assembly of fifty chiefs or sachems, each representing a clan of a nation.[26] "

A representative republic, in Anglo terms. Something unknown in Europe at the time, I believe.

[H2O Man]

61. Absolutely.

For but one example, in the Plan of Union, Franklin called elected officials "Sachems," which has a specific meaning ..... which is distinct from what our elected leaders do. I was the top assistant to Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman for decades, and one of his ancestors was among the Haudenosaunee that met with Franklin in Albany, as well as with several of the "Founding Fathers" in Philly.

Likewise, the Articles of Confederation uses the word "confederation" based upon Iroquois' thought ...... and surely not the southern experience. There are a number of good books on this by Onondaga Faith Keeper Oren Lyons. I recommend "Exiledin the Land of the Free: Democracy, Indian Nations, and the U.S. Constitution." For that matter, I recommend anything by Oren and/or John Mohawk, two of the wisest people I've had the opportunity to be friends with for many decades.

An interesting side note -- at least I find it interesting -- many of the maga-type people that I have known since childhood recognize that the Iroquois and other nations were treated terribly by the federal and state governments. Yet they are unfamiliar with the section of the Constitution that speaks of the relations (which has been violated over and over), much less Iroquois thought. I recently presented to an area historical society on Revolutionary War events, in these regions known as the Border Wars. I titled my presentation "Red, White, and Black: Critical Human Race Theory."

[orthoclad]

62. Wow. Thanks!

[Warpy]

37. The dumbasses really believe that

and the only way to convince them otherwise is to kill off the anti democratic EC forever.

Next they'll tell us we should still be under the Articles of Confederation, a bunch of states on the brink of warfare with each other was so much better than a united country.

[BWdem4life]

41. When Texas turns blue

They won’t WANT the EC anymore and they’ll be all about “democracy”.

[Warpy]

53. Texas is taking one hell of a long time to wake up

Didn't they re elect Paxton and The Toad (Abbott) last year? So far, they're still high on Jebus and stuck on stupid.

[kairos12]

38. I say yeah, North Korea and China.

[BWdem4life]

39. I've NEVER heard them put the word "Constitutional" in there.

The only parts of the Constitution they like are the parts they misinterpret. The rest they can do without.

[niyad]

51. I have, repeatedly. They bleat about admirality courts, the US corporation, birth

certifucates as cashable collateral on loans, etc.

[dlk]

44. Republicans haven't figured out a constitutional republic is a form of democracy?

They flunked their homework.

[SCantiGOP]

46. Why right-wingers use this meme:

Why do Republicans keep trotting out his "republic not a democracy" line like it has some meaning?
A democracy is a system of government where citizens elect their government. If you disagree, you are arguing against the dictionary.
One form of democracy is a Constitutional Republic, which is what the US is.
To argue otherwise is like saying that big woody thing in my yard is not a tree; it is an oak.

However, majority rule (with protections for civil liberties), is fundamental to democracy, while it is not necessary in a Constitutional republic. Our Constitution once denied the right to vote to women, persons of color, and 18-21 year olds.

[orthoclad]

47. figleaf for fascism.

[misanthrope]

54. "This isn't an automobile, it's a Ford."

"This isn't food, it's cheesecake."
"This isn't metal, it's copper."
"This isn't a mammal, it's a dog."
"This isn't a shoe, it's a Nike."
"This isn't a computer, it's an iPhone."
"This isn't a botanical, it's an azalea."

[Yavin4]

57. The acronym U.S.S.R. stands for....

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

[The Unmitigated Gall]

58. My question is always

What they would be saying if these actions came from our side.
If Biden tried to seize power like they have, would they just shrug their shoulders and say “well, after all, we’re not a democracy, so carry on”

I think not.

[orthoclad]

60. democracies are republics. On the other hand,

republics aren't necessarily democracies. That just means "not an inherited monarchy".
We could say that Nazi Germany was a republic. No Kaiser.

[Mike Niendorff]

64. The only thing they're actually saying:

"Not a democracy" -- and they hate when anybody tells them otherwise. Same reason they refuse to call their opponents "the Democratic Party".

"Democracy" and "democratic" are forbidden words to them, this is the right-wing Party Speech Code. It is 100% intentional. They refuse to speak those words, and they don't want you to speak them either.

Pay attention, America.


MDN

[Bucky]

68. The quality, depth, and historic acumen of these responses is heartening.