General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRight-wing trolls have taught me something interesting: The Northwest is a dystopian hellhole.
Who knew?
All I ever knew is that we have beautiful scenery, wealthy, progressive cities, a well-educated populous, fairly good weather (sure, it rains a lot, but that's significantly better than it not raining a lot.) and job opportunities that people leave other parts of the country for.
Do we have our problems? Sure. What part of the country doesn't have it share of problems? Including and especially homelessness. But homelessness here is for the same reason it is anywhere: the wealthy business owners don't want to pay a living wage for the labor they get rich on.
I guess the right-wing media has painted us as Mad Max or something. Which is really unfair. I-5 isn't always like that.
Yeah it's horrible if you hate paradise! I love it here
mopinko
(70,090 posts)i get so sick of it.
i will say, tho, my 1st hubs family lived in coure dalene for a few yrs and always wanted to get back. theyd be trump voters if they were still around. the ex told me about the gun nuts back then. 70s.
Ocelot II
(115,681 posts)Ever since Antifa vandalized some stores and burned down a police station here in the People's Republic of Minneapolis to protest George Floyd's murder (oh, wait, I guess they arrested some white kids from the suburbs for that, but never mind), we've been picking our way over burned-out hulks of stolen Kias and fighting off drug-crazed panhandlers on our way to the boarded-up grocery stores to buy crudités and artisanal cheeses and to visit all those taxpayer-money-sucking parks, lakes, and bird sanctuaries. It's terrible. And now we've become a legal sanctuary for trans people and women's health care on account of our woke legislature and even woker governor. The horror, the horror....
Johnny2X2X
(19,060 posts)They constantly talk about California, Portland, and especially Chicago like they're hellscapes.
Seriously, last tiem I visited San Francisco people asked me about all the human excrement I had to step through on the streets. As if that's a regular thing, pooping on the sidewalks. I saw nothing like that nor many homelss people at all. Not saying they don't exist, but it's not like the city is over run everywhere you go.
And Chicago is safe downtown, probably safer than most much smaller cities. The gang crime happens in neighborhoods mostly between people who know each other.
Dems don't do enough to combat this BS, and they don't do enough to point out that almost all of the bad states for crime, poverty, and poor health are red states.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)loon starts babbling about the hell holes that are New York and California I always respond with "Huh, why do you suppose the largest portion of the population chooses to live there?" And don't even get me started on the claims (EVERY SINGLE TIME housing prices come up) that housing is through the roof because "all those people from California" flooding in to oh, about 45 states and driving up all the prices! California should be about empty by now what with all it's residents fleeing and flooding the rest of the country.
Johnny2X2X
(19,060 posts)CA has lost 1% of its population in the last 5 years, but it was up like 4% in the several years before that. People aren't leaving CA en masse, and people aren't leaving for reasons other than cost of living for the majority. It's expensive, that's true, because so many people live there is a big reason. It's not top 15 for crime or violent crime. It's top 10 for health care and climate. It's top half for education and top 10 for incomes. It's simply a beutiful state with a huge amount of diversity.
I always bring up to people how the worst states for crime are almost all Red States, and why could that be?
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)I would strongly advise right wingers against moving here under any circumstances!
Wounded Bear
(58,648 posts)As a fellow resident of this dystopian hellhole.
Sky Jewels
(7,085 posts)Antifa burned the whole thing to the ground. We're all subsisting amongst the smoldering ruins and living in the hollow burned-out trunks of western red cedars.
Response to liberalmuse (Reply #5)
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maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)ask the speculative market "pretty please"?
Tickle
(2,518 posts)to because your post was fabulous 😁
Mysterian
(4,587 posts)The Southeast has higher crime, more poverty, worse health care and lower quality of life. How do they explain all that?
Wounded Bear
(58,648 posts)Easy, freedumb. Emphasis on the dumb.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)❤️
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #7)
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Sky Jewels
(7,085 posts)Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #26)
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Sky Jewels
(7,085 posts)just in case you have to go Bye Bye.
niyad
(113,278 posts)Sky Jewels
(7,085 posts)niyad
(113,278 posts)FrankBooth
(1,603 posts)I laugh every time I hear that crap from someone. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)The OP loves to disparage the south as anyone who reads his posts can see.
Seems to me that whats good for the goose
maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)The crisis is fueled by mental illness and drug addiction, specifically opiates, and the homeless come from all over the PNW, many times from extremely red states (I'm looking at you Montana).
Many homeless are simply unemployable now.
Also, look up Martin v Boise for an explanation of the West Coast's intracatable street camping issues.
Aristus
(66,327 posts)A lot of my patients have jobs, but they don't pay enough to get them off the streets; not when you need first and last month's rent, damage deposit, credit check, criminal background check, etc.
As for mental illness and substance abuse, I see that every day, too. I'm not ignorant of the causes (plural) of homelessness, is what I'm saying.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)a few years back. Damn, one of the most interesting, informative tours of that type we have ever taken. Young man (to us anyway, maybe 30ish), who had devoted himself to the areas history
indigenous culture up to modern day. I dont remember a single question that anyone in the group asked that he didnt have a solid, definitive, and answer
backed up by dates, statistics, names, etc.
Anyway, to my point:
One of the subjects he spoke on was the current homelessness problem in the Seattle/west coast area. His statement, spoken seriously and directly to the group was You hear that we have a homeless problem
Seattle, San Francisco, Portland. WE dont have a homeless problem
the United States has a homeless problem. Because of climate, services, etc the problem manifests here. He paused
no one in the group challenged his assertion.
Another more humorous statement he made
got a chuckle from everyone: regarding the deforestation that logging inflicted on the entire area, crashing the local economy:
The loggers discovered, much to their surprise, that it takes exactly one thousand years to replace a one thousand year old tree.
GPV
(72,377 posts)dutch777
(3,013 posts)vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)Listen I live in Amarillo, TX. One of the shittiest parts of Texas IMO. We have one of the most corrupt city governments in modern day history, they bow to one rich asshole of the city that wants no progress on anything. We have severe homelessness, drugs, thefts, vandalism on the daily. Mind you we are a city of 200k+ people, and yet we are probably the most conservative city in the state,
Amarillo is proof that the blue cities are nothing but a dystopian shit hole is a lie. Amarillo is a conservative ran city and its extremely shitty to live here. Living in a corrupt, lawless place where religion rains supreme is not a place I want to be.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Except for perhaps Texas during Basic Training many years ago.
If you want to leave, then save your money and go.
Fear of change is a real thing, but you only live once.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)My girlfriend and I plan on leaving for Washington State next year. We got friends up there that we want to be with and its perfect.
Hassler
(3,377 posts)Those hellhole cities of Portland, Minneapolis etc-- where all the jobs are. Why can't Republican run towns in nowhere Kanas create jobs? Why is it the liberal run places that create jobs?
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)If Amarillo didn't have one of the biggest interstates running through it, I can guarantee it would have been where most rural towns are going. You know not long ago I was reading a reddit thread about colleges and why most don't ever return home after going to college.
A lot of users commented because in these small towns. The mentality is the same. Usually racist, bigoted, talking points about anyone who isn't white, christian, straight is an evil person. But a lot of these users said when they went off to college. Their views changed because they saw all these talking points to be utter bullshit.
Reason why cons hate colleges because students are exposed to reality and diversity. Not some backward ass small town mentality anymore. And the student normally never returns back to their hometown. They go to where more open minded people are.
Response to Aristus (Original post)
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GP6971
(31,141 posts)MissB
(15,806 posts)Enjoy your stay.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,369 posts)I guess.
Cha
(297,180 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,369 posts)Cha
(297,180 posts)you're welcome.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)For whatever short amount of time you have
Xavier Breath
(3,626 posts)Yavin4
(35,438 posts)The only pure spaces are single family homes in car-dependent, suburban sprawls. This is intentional. Densely populated areas bring people together where they can form social bonds which lead to labor and political organizing. The suburbs keep people isolated, distant, and distrustful of others.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)My parents friends were diverse, educated, well-traveled, and anything but isolated.
I remember wonderful parties full of interesting people. I met my first openly gay person in the late 60s at one of my parents parties, which had a huge impact in my young confused mind.
I dont know if you never have known any really established suburbs, or just had a terrible experience growing up in them, but my experience was wonderful.
To this day, I still remember the names of everyone on my block, including their parents
all long gone now.
Nah, we were not isolated. We even had a monkey who lived outside for years (in the summer).
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)your lived experience of suburban living is nothing like it is today. Kids definitely do not ride their bikes every where. They are driven by their parents because riding bikes in the suburbs can be dangerous. Also, various studies have shown how lonely and isolated people are in today's burbs.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Kids walk to school in my little town - black, white and Hispanic
they ride bikes. They walk with their parents in the neighborhood every evening. Im usually out in my yard and we all say hi, comment on the weather, the dogs, etc.
Prior to the pandemic, the kids on the block always came to my house in the summer because I have popsicles. Not sure how they sussed that out, but somehow they knew.
Im guessing they knew because I gave a popsicle to one kid, and the news traveled by bike lol.
Theres always basketball going on somewhere nearby.
So, no disrespect, but Im glad I dont live wherever these studies are done.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)That's just the truth.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)who are living similar lives are just atypical because youve decided so? I went to a high school with a graduating class of 900, most very much like me. Those I still have contact with also live in the same type neighborhoods.
I guess I was just very lucky to be raised in that very spot right there because only myself and my cohorts had that experience out of this big old country? How lucky we were!
How lucky I keep ending up in neighborhoods like this no matter where I move in whatever state! Wowza!
Ive even been known to duck behind my some of my larger trees just to avoid conversation with some of the block regulars. Two guys, both named Robert, walk morning and evening and LOVE to talk. I call them A.M. and P.M to my neighbor because of their walking times. But Im not the really small talk type so I do sometimes avoid them. Isolated? Not even during the pandemic.
Ok. I get that you feel people are living miserable, lonely lives, but Im gonna guess thats been going on for centuries.
Anyway, I feel sad that your experience has been isolated and distant because that would indeed be awful. I dont know where you live, but it does indeed sound kind of grim as you describe it.
Have a lovely evening now. You seem determined to discount my lived experience so I think the conversation has reached an end.
Here's some information for you:
Elessar Zappa
(13,975 posts)Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Video provides evidence of my argument.
Jedi Guy
(3,185 posts)It's a thing and has been for a while now. They started it back in the early 90s, when crime in urban areas had been spiking for the last several years. However, they continued with the urban hellscape narrative even after crime dropped more sharply and rapidly than it had risen. That drop in crime didn't serve the narrative, so it was as if it never happened and it just kept going up and up.
By the same token, the left in general shits on rural areas and has for a while now. "Flyover country" has been a thing for a couple decades now. The left looks at rural areas as desolate wastelands populated by toothless Bubbas who've never read anything but Guns and Ammo and just can't wait to break out the banjos so they can reenact Deliverance on some city fellers, always assuming they can stop beating their wives and screwing their sisters for a few minutes.
Both sides are taking the worst, most stereotypical aspects of their opposite numbers and blowing them out of proportion into the rule rather than the exception. As it turns out, urban and rural areas are mostly just normal people going about normal lives. But since "normal people going about normal lives" makes it hard to vilify and demonize, that truth gets conveniently ignored in favor of, "Holy shit, get a load of these freaks over here."
canuckledragger
(1,636 posts)...from the actual crime infested red states and cities.
Remember, with these republicans, every accusation is a confession.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)"a well-educated populous"
It's populace, not populous. Populous is an adjective to describe something that has a great number of people. Populace is a noun synonymous with the similar word "population" or "people," as a specific type of group.
I have a feeling the internet has a law describing those who brag about certain education attainments as destined to screw up their post in a way that contradicts the claim. I'm sure someone knows it, but I don't.
I can admit it when I'm ignorant of something, though.
Response to ExWhoDoesntCare (Reply #49)
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Sky Jewels
(7,085 posts)Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #54)
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crickets
(25,966 posts)I used to live in the hellhole a bit to the south of you, and in spite of a couple of the earthquakes, I do miss it.
Aristus
(66,327 posts)There are times when I like driving I-5. But it's always in-between cities. And when you're really out in the boonies, it decreases to two lanes only. Hard to imagine while driving through Seattle or Tacoma.
Response to Aristus (Reply #58)
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Hermit-The-Prog
(33,331 posts)I'm confused.
marble falls
(57,080 posts)niyad
(113,278 posts)marble falls
(57,080 posts)niyad
(113,278 posts)Aristus
(66,327 posts)Yeah. Every day is a struggle
niyad
(113,278 posts)fundieville, we have to endure clement weather, little smog, that geologic nightmare Garden of the Gods, and those damned mountain vistas.
Is class that boring, ir has it not started yet?
Aristus
(66,327 posts)Were on another one now.
niyad
(113,278 posts)Aristus
(66,327 posts)On another break right now. Making plans for lunch.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,946 posts)They need to stay the fuck out.