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Liberal In Red State

(442 posts)
Mon May 22, 2023, 04:45 PM May 2023

Biden should under no circumstances cave on anything to Repugs! They are turning this fiasco

into another side show like when McCarthy sought the speakership! Biden should just say either agree or I invoke the 14th Amendment! Don’t F around with the Repugs. The 80+ million of us that voted for Biden should bombard the Whitehouse with “14th Amendment” emails!

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Biden should under no circumstances cave on anything to Repugs! They are turning this fiasco (Original Post) Liberal In Red State May 2023 OP
K&R Blue Owl May 2023 #1
If he caves, he intended to all the time. There will be no excuse for it. Everyone knows this only brewens May 2023 #2
Oh, here we go with the conspiracy theories. W_HAMILTON May 2023 #5
I AM SO ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED! ALL BASED ON A SPECULATIVE "IF" emulatorloo May 2023 #19
The 14th Amendment is not some sort of magical get out of jail free card tritsofme May 2023 #3
They are not good faith negotiators. They WANT this crash... lame54 May 2023 #14
Would the work requirements effect the Beachnutt May 2023 #4
Holding the debt ceiling hostage all started with Newt Gingrich and his obstruction. Bev54 May 2023 #6
Who didn't see this coming from miles away, for months and months? Sky Jewels May 2023 #7
Biden needs to address the nation at 9 PM...... NGeorgian May 2023 #8
This!!!! Joinfortmill May 2023 #11
Absolutely! Ligyron May 2023 #13
Also... littlemissmartypants May 2023 #9
Agree. So goddamn sick of their shit. Joinfortmill May 2023 #10
K&R Grumpy Old Guy May 2023 #12
Bombard the Repugs Sessuch May 2023 #15
+1 SouthernDem4ever May 2023 #16
One thing about Biden right now... paleotn May 2023 #17
I tend to agree with you. I watched him run circles around the Gopers at the SOTU. emulatorloo May 2023 #20
All of the above leanforward May 2023 #18

brewens

(13,592 posts)
2. If he caves, he intended to all the time. There will be no excuse for it. Everyone knows this only
Mon May 22, 2023, 04:47 PM
May 2023

happens with a Democrat in office. Joe has to do his job and pay the bills without any strings. End of story.

W_HAMILTON

(7,867 posts)
5. Oh, here we go with the conspiracy theories.
Mon May 22, 2023, 04:58 PM
May 2023

But guess what? If Biden """caves (as) he intended to all the time,""" there are enough progressive congressional representatives to thwart any deal since many (most?) Republicans still will not vote for whatever comes from this because they are instinctively against voting in favor of anything Biden is for anyway.

So, if a deal goes through since that's what those evil dastardly establishment corporatist blah blah blah planned for all this all the time, it means that progressives also failed us, yes?

EDIT: And, yes, this only happens when a Democrat is in office because Democrats are the responsible party and good stewards of our nation's governance whereas Republicans are all too happy to run it all into the ground when a Democrat is president because they can just let their conservative media and """both sides""" media give them just enough cover and/or blame Democrats for it happening under their watch. Democrats won't crash the world economy to hurt Republicans because it would hurt everyday Americans as well and there ain't a """liberal""" media out there to propagandize such a maneuver away like Republicans have.

emulatorloo

(44,131 posts)
19. I AM SO ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HASN'T HAPPENED! ALL BASED ON A SPECULATIVE "IF"
Mon May 22, 2023, 09:39 PM
May 2023

THAT I CAME UP WITH IN MY MIND WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE.

I know, it is a long DU tradition to get upset over things that haven’t happened. So I get it.

tritsofme

(17,379 posts)
3. The 14th Amendment is not some sort of magical get out of jail free card
Mon May 22, 2023, 04:52 PM
May 2023

This perception, that seems to dominate right now, is extremely flawed.

There would be real consequences in the markets, similar to an actual default.

If Biden can negotiate a two year spending deal and raise the debt ceiling, taking default and government shutdowns off the table until after 2024, it would be a great accomplishment

lame54

(35,293 posts)
14. They are not good faith negotiators. They WANT this crash...
Mon May 22, 2023, 07:38 PM
May 2023

The Steve Bannon plan

They think they can hang it on Biden

Beachnutt

(7,324 posts)
4. Would the work requirements effect the
Mon May 22, 2023, 04:52 PM
May 2023

republican voters ?
Maybe Joe has a strategic plan to show the rethug voters what they vote for.

Bev54

(10,053 posts)
6. Holding the debt ceiling hostage all started with Newt Gingrich and his obstruction.
Mon May 22, 2023, 05:17 PM
May 2023

I dearly hope Fani Willis has the goods to put him away too.

Sky Jewels

(7,111 posts)
7. Who didn't see this coming from miles away, for months and months?
Mon May 22, 2023, 06:17 PM
May 2023

I sure hope there's a plan to shut down these GOP motherfuckers.

NGeorgian

(47 posts)
8. Biden needs to address the nation at 9 PM......
Mon May 22, 2023, 06:20 PM
May 2023

on next Monday. He needs to explain what is going to happen to all of us. He needs to blame the Repugs.

littlemissmartypants

(22,691 posts)
9. Also...
Mon May 22, 2023, 06:21 PM
May 2023
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016352334



But wait, there is more.

We said that conservative claims betrayed an unawareness or willful elision of federal budgeting and debt incurring as astounding as their assaults on the 14th Amendment. How so, you might ask?

In 1974, Congress took charge of the federal budgeting process in a way it had not done before. The precipitant was “The Imperial Presidency” of Richard M. Nixon, who had developed a worrying penchant for regularly impounding — that is, refusing to spend — funds that Congress had appropriated for specifically authorized federal programs. In effect, Nixon had been flouting both Congress’s Article I “power of the purse,” of which some commentators make pointlessly heavy weather, and the Constitution’s own Article II “take care” clause, pursuant to which the president must “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.”

Congress’s response was the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, pursuant to which Congress, with the president’s signature, legislates in detail: federal expenditures, federal taxes, and hence, federal debt issuance to cover gaps between expenditures and taxes. This, of course, means that debt obligations are fully congressionally legislated — as precisely and as fully as federal taxes and spending themselves are congressionally legislated. The federal budget, in other words, is its own ”debt ceiling” — and indeed floor.

There is, thus, simply no role, since 1974, for the old Liberty Bond Act of 1917 — the source of the ersatz debt ceiling that Republicans now routinely wield like a weapon — to play any longer. It is a children’s toy, not a real gun, and it’s high time the Senate and all reasonable Republicans in the House called the bluff.

Lest there be any doubt on this score, we suggest that conservatives note how the current incarnation of the no longer meaningful (since 1974) Liberty Bond Act of 1917 is a would-be freestanding ceiling whose disregard leaves in place all sections of Title 31 that authorize needed borrowing — per the U.S. Code Subchapter I, sections 3102 through 3106. Conservative critics are accordingly dead wrong again, be it deliberately or inadvertently, in suggesting that we and others are proposing the president borrow without congressional authority. 


https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/4009101-biden-can-and-should-ignore-the-gops-debt-suicide-attempt/

Sessuch

(106 posts)
15. Bombard the Repugs
Mon May 22, 2023, 07:38 PM
May 2023

Do not bombard the President. Bombard the Republican leaders who threaten their constituents with disaster.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
17. One thing about Biden right now...
Mon May 22, 2023, 07:43 PM
May 2023

He's as calm as mill pond. I think he knows how this will play out. Not with a default and not in McCarthy's favor. As they say, the trick to playing chicken is knowing when to flinch. McCarthy will l back down because, like nuclear war, the next step is one he cannot take.

emulatorloo

(44,131 posts)
20. I tend to agree with you. I watched him run circles around the Gopers at the SOTU.
Mon May 22, 2023, 09:45 PM
May 2023

Biden’s got a lot of experience at this and he’s smart.

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