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blm

(113,392 posts)
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:08 PM Jun 2023

Ukraine's no more Nazi than the US. Spreading Putin's propaganda is lazy-minded.

https://kyivindependent.com/illia-ponomarenko-why-some-ukrainian-soldiers-use-nazi-related-insignia/

Ukraine is no more "Nazi" than any country that has its small number of misfits who admire Adolf Hitler and form fringe groups and gangs based on those views. Ukraine has its groups like the U.K. has the neo-Nazi organization Combat 18, the Scandinavians have the Nordic Resistance Movement, and the United States has the Aryan Brotherhood.

With absolutely no proof, the Kremlin's war propaganda created the absurd narrative that Ukraine is a full-fledged, World War II-style Nazi nation that needs to be "de-Nazified" as justification for its brutal full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Just like in many places around the world, people with far-right and neo-Nazi views, driven by their ideology, are prone to joining the military and participating in conflicts. One also has to take into account that in Ukraine, nationalism with deep historical roots is tied to a desire for independence from Russia. It has driven many to take up arms to fight in what they believe is an existential war against a neighbor that seeks to subjugate and destroy their country.
Among them, people with far-right views.

This feeling was very real back in 2014, in the early days of Russia's war in Ukraine's eastern Donbas. Ukraine's military was deeply disorganized and disoriented. Ultra-nationalist and far-right groups were among the many others that organized volunteer battalions to fight Russia's invasion in the east.
……

But as with any country, real neo-Nazis in Ukraine were and still are a tiny minority.
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Ukraine's no more Nazi than the US. Spreading Putin's propaganda is lazy-minded. (Original Post) blm Jun 2023 OP
USA have nazis.................... Lovie777 Jun 2023 #1
US has Nazis, it is not a Nazi country. blm Jun 2023 #2
I hate Illinois Nazis Brother Buzz Jun 2023 #3
Shame on Germany for making it appear as such! PortTack Jun 2023 #4
What makes it all the more frustrating... Tommy Carcetti Jun 2023 #5
Yup Effete Snob Jun 2023 #6
This is a far more nuanced subject than those on TheProle Jun 2023 #7
As it threatens US - US is still not a Nazi country blm Jun 2023 #8
you can also make the completely valid statement stopdiggin Jun 2023 #9
Or posting 8 year old articles... Tommy Carcetti Jun 2023 #10
I always expect DU to know better. blm Jun 2023 #11

blm

(113,392 posts)
2. US has Nazis, it is not a Nazi country.
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:13 PM
Jun 2023

Most countries have a minority of people who are far right Nazis or Nazi sympathizers - That’s the point.

PortTack

(33,301 posts)
4. Shame on Germany for making it appear as such!
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:19 PM
Jun 2023

These volunteer orgs that have been fighting a lot longer than ‘22 are not beholden to the UKR armed forces and do not take their orders nor get most of their supplies from them. They use what they have or taken from the orcs and groups like wagner and aren’t concerned with what the markings might be.

The German ppl for the larger part are not for supporting Ukraine, so this shouldn’t surprise anyone!

Tommy Carcetti

(43,303 posts)
5. What makes it all the more frustrating...
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:27 PM
Jun 2023

...is that this all comes on the day the Russians blow the dam in Kherson, flooding the local landscape.

I mean, really...do we have to deal with recycled 2014 talking points now?

 

Effete Snob

(8,387 posts)
6. Yup
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:33 PM
Jun 2023

https://www.phillyvoice.com/former-philly-cop-nazi-tattoo-ian-hans-lichterman-navy-yard-police/

The former Philly cop with the 'Nazi tattoo' is a police captain down at the Navy Yard now

Ian Hans Lichterman is one of at least three questionable hires for civilian force that protects sensitive military sites

TheProle

(2,451 posts)
7. This is a far more nuanced subject than those on
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 05:38 PM
Jun 2023

either side of the debate will acknowledge. Putin's invasion of Ukraine is criminal and should be condemned, but the type of apologia illustrated in the OP is revisionist history. Ukraine's far-right problem is real.

Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't
(https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946)

Far-right Extremism as a Threat to Ukrainian Democracy
https://freedomhouse.org/report/analytical-brief/2018/far-right-extremism-threat-ukrainian-democracy

Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/

The letter
https://khanna.house.gov/sites/khanna.house.gov/files/Combat%20Anti-Semitism%20Letter.pdf

Democrat signatories:
Khanna, Nadler, Raskin, Jayapal, Ellison, Jackson Lee, Wasserman Schultz, Jeffries and others.

blm

(113,392 posts)
8. As it threatens US - US is still not a Nazi country
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 06:50 PM
Jun 2023

and neither is Ukraine. Acknowledging it exists, and in numbers enough to notice is NOT apologia. It is also not enough to warrant the acceptance of smears pushed by Putin.

stopdiggin

(11,814 posts)
9. you can also make the completely valid statement
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 07:07 PM
Jun 2023

"the U.S. far right (Nazi) problem is real." Fact.
So then we have to move on to 'how much' and 'how many' - and much more critically, do the extremist elements in either country have an appreciable hold on the power structure (government), or the agenda that country is try to advance?

and to make the analogy just that much clearer - it is incontrovertible that the U.S. military has, and has had, an persistent far right presence - and thus 'problem.'

So ... If the United States should be attacked - our allies move to the sidelines and wring their hands about 'undemocratic forces ..?'

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