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Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:09 AM Jul 2023

US Decision to Send Cluster Bombs to Ukraine could put Canada, others, on the spot.

Last edited Mon Jul 10, 2023, 10:29 AM - Edit history (2)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cluster-munitions-explainer-1.6899740


Canada is among many NATO allies of Ukraine who signed 2010 pact to ban cluster munition use

……….

Canada has considered itself a leader in the international movement to limit the damage that weapons like landmines and cluster munitions can cause to war-torn communities.

The Canadian government helped spearhead a movement that led more than 100 countries to sign the Ottawa Treaty in December 1997, and dozens more joined in the years after.

………..

Meanwhile Canadas best friend is spearheading a movement to keep the factories churning out these monstrous weapons. The Pentagon is out of control.

Edit to add PRESIDENT BIDENS comments ahead of crucial NATO meeting, where Canada will suddenly play a central role in the clusterbomb clusterfuck created by the Pentagon.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/07/biden-defends-controversial-cluster-bombs-decision

The decision drew fierce criticism from Democratic lawmakers due to high civilian death rates.

https://jayapal.house.gov/2023/07/07/house-progressives-on-biden-administrations-cluster-munitions-transfer-to-ukraine/

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=IND&mtdsg_no=XXVI-6&chapter=26&clang=_en


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US Decision to Send Cluster Bombs to Ukraine could put Canada, others, on the spot. (Original Post) Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 OP
A very bad decision malaise Jul 2023 #1
Apparently by the Pentagon and Defence without consultation with allies? Putting Biden Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #2
MIC must malaise Jul 2023 #3
Folks assuring the world monstrous weapons will surely be used properly and no civilians Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #4
Yet Russia's use of monstrous weapons sarisataka Jul 2023 #16
What nonsense. The Pentagon and DOF do not make wnylib Jul 2023 #5
Yes, the Ukrainian military will use the banned weapons properly...that's the nonsense. Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #6
I say that those NATO countries should live up to their own wnylib Jul 2023 #7
Puzzle..what does first in war? Clue...yellow cake. Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #14
Now you've gone from nonsense to gibberish. wnylib Jul 2023 #18
100% agreed AntivaxHunters Jul 2023 #8
As are most rational,people malaise Jul 2023 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #11
Warlust drops a cluster bomb on rational thought. The government of the Pentagon Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #12
And Putin apologists. tritsofme Jul 2023 #24
Is the Progressive Caucus also pro-Putin? The logical fallacy is death defying! Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #26
Some of them may unwittingly be his useful idiots, at least in this instance. tritsofme Jul 2023 #29
As is the Progressive Caucus? Same logical fallacy! Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #30
How is it a logical fallacy? They are quite capable of being wrong. tritsofme Jul 2023 #32
+1 BannonsLiver Jul 2023 #28
So you don't think President Biden is rational. BannonsLiver Jul 2023 #27
So....Progressive Caucus thinks same??! That level of insight into others thinking is marketable! Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #31
If it speeds up claudette Jul 2023 #10
Indeed, Ma'am The Magistrate Jul 2023 #13
A letter than in detail describes the opposition... Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #15
Past Caring, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2023 #17
That is not very magistrative. I agree with every word of that letter and the Canada led treaty. Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #22
I've Other Things To Do This Afternoon, Dear The Magistrate Jul 2023 #23
Magistrates should know how to debate, not insult and avoid. A real one. Alexander Of Assyria Jul 2023 #25
Same here. wnylib Jul 2023 #19
Russia has no qualms about using every weapon at their disposal. maxsolomon Jul 2023 #20
Oh Canada, how was your baby seal pup clubbing harvest this year? 27,000+ pups last year Shanti Shanti Shanti Jul 2023 #21
 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
2. Apparently by the Pentagon and Defence without consultation with allies? Putting Biden
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:32 AM
Jul 2023

on the spot as well! Very very bad in so many many ways.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
4. Folks assuring the world monstrous weapons will surely be used properly and no civilians
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:44 AM
Jul 2023

will be harmed is the same level of suspension of logic and analysis that led to the a Great Giant White Weather Balloon Panic! No transmitters? Oops.

The Pentagon is out of control.

wnylib

(21,410 posts)
5. What nonsense. The Pentagon and DOF do not make
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:46 AM
Jul 2023

those decisions without Biden's approval. It was Biden's decision. Why are you twisting this?

Also, factories are not "churning out" more cluster bombs. They already exist in our arsenal. They are being sent for use in one specific region for one stage of the war, to dislodge Russian troops from a current strategic stronghold. There is no plan for using them throughout the war in other regions.

I don't like the use of cluster bombs, either. I remember when Bush and his gang used them in Iraq. But, as bad as they are, it is what Ukraine needs at this point. I do support Ukraine's self defense. Defeat the Russians first and get them out of Ukraine. Then clear the ground of unexploded bombs before farmers start plowing.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
6. Yes, the Ukrainian military will use the banned weapons properly...that's the nonsense.
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 07:48 AM
Jul 2023

What say you to NATO allies who have banned the use…not consulted?

wnylib

(21,410 posts)
7. I say that those NATO countries should live up to their own
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 08:01 AM
Jul 2023

decisions and not send any. AFAIK, they are not asked to send them. The cluster bombs are being sent by the US.

And what's with the BS about Ukraine not "using them properly?" They will use them against Russian troops who are entrenched in the Russian occupied region of Ukraine where they need to be driven out. Or did you think that Ukraine intends to bomb it's own people in other regions, like Kiev?

Bombs are horrible. War is horrible. Ukraine did not choose to be invaded. But shit happens and now they need to defend themselves.




Response to malaise (Reply #9)

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
12. Warlust drops a cluster bomb on rational thought. The government of the Pentagon
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 08:46 AM
Jul 2023

has to prepare the public battlefield first before any violation of international norms.

Like when a giant white balloon with no transmission capability and giant reflective solar panels was turned into a clusterfuck of propaganda…very useful for the Pentagon propagandists…a goldmine! Now the walk back…

tritsofme

(17,372 posts)
24. And Putin apologists.
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 03:18 PM
Jul 2023

They seem very eager to deny Ukraine the tools they need to repel the Russian invaders.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
17. Past Caring, Sir
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 10:49 AM
Jul 2023

Last edited Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

I know what weapons are and what they do.

In war, all standards of normal moral behavior fall away. The thing takes you through a looking glass. Everything done in war is meant to do immediate harm, whatever eventual good may be hoped will come of it.

In war, it can be useful to hold the moral high ground, but when this decision is made it is never made out of virtuous intent, but because some calculation has been made that appearing virtuous is of some use to the war effort.

Every use of any weapon rests on a calculus of whether or not its use will achieve an effect of greater value than the revulsion of others at the horror of its use. In this calculation nothing is absolute; everything is a question of utility. There is no weapon of war which is not cruel and lasting in its effects, there is no action in war which does not harm non-combatants, whether immediately or in days to come. Even a principled opposition to war serves only, in any particular case of war, to align with the side which has the most artillery. In the specific case where the war being opposed as a matter of principle involves the objector's homeland, the principled opposition aligns with and acts to strengthen the enemy.



"They say war is an art, but it's not. It mostly consists in outwitting people, inflicting suffering on the helpless, and robbing widows and orphans, and that's not art: that's business."

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
22. That is not very magistrative. I agree with every word of that letter and the Canada led treaty.
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:38 PM
Jul 2023

Going to awkward NATO meeting tomorrow with the many nations of NATO who also ratified that treaty into law., and those that didn’t.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
23. I've Other Things To Do This Afternoon, Dear
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:59 PM
Jul 2023

I suppose it's possible you could learn....


"I should like to take you seriously, but doing so would affront your intelligence."



maxsolomon

(33,265 posts)
20. Russia has no qualms about using every weapon at their disposal.
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:01 PM
Jul 2023

Including Cluster Munitions.

Ukraine has used them too. This war is murder. Entire cities have been destroyed. If there's a 100K dead at this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

We've tried to draw a line for "this is how far we'll go, but no further" multiple times in supporting Ukraine's DEFENSIVE battle against Putin's barbaric, grinding, bulldozing invasion, but that line keeps slipping the longer the carnage continues.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Shanti Shanti Shanti

(12,047 posts)
21. Oh Canada, how was your baby seal pup clubbing harvest this year? 27,000+ pups last year
Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:28 PM
Jul 2023

Clubbing makes money, selling weapons makes money, it's all good right?

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