Can we please stop talking about "voter fraud?"

[Amaryllis]

It is Election Fraud, not voter fraud. The voters are not committing the fraud, except in a handful of cases. (I think Brad Ravensburger said they had two cases of dead people voting.)

This is not just a question of semantics; it's a question of framing, and very important framing because calling it voter fraud takes the attention off the real problem and focuses it on a non-existent problem that can be used to pass a whole lot of voter suppression laws.

[mopinko]

1. it's a red herring that should be called out for what it is- smelly.

[stopdiggin]

2. and in fact there has been minimal amounts

of either.

Now if you want to talk 'disenfranchise' - yeah, that is moving forward chock-a-block. But election fraud .. ? You'd have to demonstrate where (and how) you think this is occurring. (because virtually every authoritative voice is saying it isn't)

[Amaryllis]

3. Here-This is one of MANY examples of election fraud:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218177415
***BREAKING*** Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump's team is behind voting system breach

[stopdiggin]

5. incorrect (according to my reading)

there were no votes altered, switched, deleted, miscounted, manipulated, etc., in this incident. (nor was that really the intent) I read the complete article (and I will continue to update and follow as required).

But - unless you are advancing a definition (of election fraud) that doesn't actually impact votes ... Then, no, this incident (of a willing, and knowing, post-election breach of machines) does not qualify.

Edit: And I might also point out that pushing the idea that there IS a great deal of fraud occurring in our elections systems - is not only not supported by the facts, or any kind of expert testimony we currently in possession of ... But also represents a huge disservice to the public, and the democratic process that many of us would like to sustain.

Let's be careful that we are not 'arming' the wrong side here.

[TomWilm]

12. Yup! Both Election AND Voter fraud are just red herrings ...

... since there has been an ongoing extreme precision in the vote counting of US elections in the past decades. The numbers are actually just fine, and quite easy to monitor - from the singular voting place and up. All the fraud happens before and after election day, and that is where the focus should be.

[stopdiggin]

14. thank you. sums it up nicely. -(nt)-

[pandr32]

4. Nail, meet Hammer!

[Merlot]

6. It's no accident repubicans talk about "voter fraud"

republicans has a long history of mis-naming and mis-directing crimes.

[KPN]

7. Right on, right on!

[Warpy]

8. Why do you think the right wing noise machine calls it "voter fraud?"

Trying to shine a light in the middle of the room makes sure the cockroaches in the corners will continue undisturbed.

Damned right it is election fraud, something they did so badly here in NM in 2004 that we got 100% paper ballots the next year.

[calimary]

9. It's the FRAMING, DAMMIT!!!

I just realized, though, that we can use THIS place here, DU, to work out talking points and strategies to carry out in other pockets of the internet - AND beyond. Reality checks on steroids. And CORRECTIVE reality checks on steroids.

This is stuff we can use with friends, in arguments or discussions in the neighborhoods, the backyard barbecues, the playgrounds when the moms chit-chat while their kids are busy on the slides, sandboxes, and teeter-totters. Or WHEREVER else chit-chat can be found. But hold your fire til somebody else starts bringing shit up about Biden=bad/donald=good. I guarantee the opposition will NOT have the truth OR the make-sense talking points.

And DO NOT use "their" talking points. All you wind up doing in that case is reinforcing. Besides - why do we even need to, even well-intentioned or because it can be hard to think up something at a moment's notice? We've got plenty of our own.

And evidently, the donald is running low on campaign donations. Has he soaked his fans til they're running on empty? THAT'S a good sign. Plus, he's growing more shrill in his public speaking. The key letter is "D". "D" for donald, and "D" for DESPERATE.

[calimary]

10. And here's another one. Take "their" talking points and turn 'em UPSIDE DOWN.

I just saw the story about the three-year-old child dying in one of those get-rid-of-the-immigrant busloads of Greg Abbott's.

"WHO'S 'KILLING BABIES' NOW????"

GUYS, this is a war of words and talking points. And it's a war we can WIN. EVERY ONE of their talking points can be turned upside down and flat on its ass. This is a war WE can WIN.

And one other thing: the bad guys don't expect us to 1) be deviously clever and/or 2) hit back hard at the "flat-headed Frankenstein" (look at the photos of trump's hair - FLAT-headed. Like Frankensteiin!

[housecat]

11. Like undocumented workers are called illegal aliens?

[Smackdown2019]

13. There be VOTER fraud next year for certain!

All those Jan 6 resurgents and their supporters are to be barred from voting. They vote, they commit voter fraud!

[CousinIT]

15. Exactly. Voter fraud is statistically non-existent. Election fraud (by the GOP) is rampant. n/t