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NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 02:49 PM Aug 2023

POLL - Should Manifestos Be Published?

I just read the Jacksonville killer had left a manifesto full of "I hate blacks" racist hate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/jacksonville-mass-shooting-racially-motivated-b2400270.html

Honestly I'd like to read it. I can't even imagine what it's like. I read the Unabomber manifesto years ago online (I was curious). Of course I can see past the conspiracy theory garbage. I also think most people would be offended by some of this racist garbage.

But then I think there are so many weak minded people who could actually believe the crap.

Poll Question:

Should manifestos left by killers be published?


35 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
YES
14 (40%)
NO
21 (60%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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POLL - Should Manifestos Be Published? (Original Post) NowISeetheLight Aug 2023 OP
not if they know who the shooter was treestar Aug 2023 #1
I'm going to say no. Maybe they have to be made public in court, but Wingus Dingus Aug 2023 #2
I feel like it would encourage others Yonnie3 Aug 2023 #3
These lone-wolf killers are the result of trump pushing racism. brush Aug 2023 #4
I have mixed feelings on this one. It does give an alert to watch whomever. But then you RKP5637 Aug 2023 #5
Many people spoke out against the Memphis shooter's manifesto being released Sympthsical Aug 2023 #6
The Gov't should never hide anything from the public... WarGamer Aug 2023 #14
Well, either way has to be uniform across the board Sympthsical Aug 2023 #18
My Thinking NowISeetheLight Aug 2023 #7
If the author wants to pay for it out of their own pocket Blue Owl Aug 2023 #8
No. Read some poetry instead? Blues Heron Aug 2023 #9
They should be made available. Not publicized or published. Azathoth Aug 2023 #10
Once it's "made available," it will be "splashed across front pages." nt LAS14 Aug 2023 #23
I agree with Azathoth... Think. Again. Aug 2023 #11
Good Idea NowISeetheLight Aug 2023 #13
I voted yes Johnny2X2X Aug 2023 #12
I had to vote yes. William769 Aug 2023 #15
The gunman wrote and shared his thoughts. That speech is already free; it does not need to be WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2023 #20
Appearently we disagree on many things. William769 Aug 2023 #21
Why? So we get more murder-suicides by self-imagined geniuses struggle4progress Aug 2023 #16
Delayed publication maybe - but not right after the shootings. MyNameIsJonas Aug 2023 #17
"Honestly I'd like to read it." Why? WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2023 #19
Comprehend NowISeetheLight Aug 2023 #24
No, because canetoad Aug 2023 #22
No, and ForgedCrank Aug 2023 #25
Kind of Agree NowISeetheLight Aug 2023 #26
Hell no - these terrorists get too much notoriety already RainCaster Aug 2023 #27
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2023 #28
Maybe. But not until after a long cooling-off period. Wednesdays Aug 2023 #29
I'd say no. Dr. Strange Aug 2023 #30

treestar

(82,383 posts)
1. not if they know who the shooter was
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 02:56 PM
Aug 2023

with the Unabomber, it helped find him.

Though a shooter who did not suicide would be tried, and if the manifesto helped prove his guilt, it would have to go into evidence.

Wingus Dingus

(8,060 posts)
2. I'm going to say no. Maybe they have to be made public in court, but
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:03 PM
Aug 2023

I don't see the point of media publishing them. It's granting their final evil wish (if they died)--why do that?

Yonnie3

(17,559 posts)
3. I feel like it would encourage others
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:05 PM
Aug 2023

It would send a message to kill some people and then your manifesto will get published.

Some selected snippets for release would be sufficient for the needs of the public.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
5. I have mixed feelings on this one. It does give an alert to watch whomever. But then you
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:08 PM
Aug 2023

know someone is probably reading it thinking, hey, this is great stuff.

Sympthsical

(9,238 posts)
6. Many people spoke out against the Memphis shooter's manifesto being released
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:13 PM
Aug 2023

And to date it hasn't been. It'll be interesting to watch how quickly some minds change.

I'm against it across the board. It encourages acts as a way of garnering attention. They want it distributed. They want it read. They envision people being rapt at the amazingly insightful and trenchant societal analysis they've managed. Why should we be in the business of giving them what they want? I've never read a mass shooter's reasoning and thought, "Well, now that they've laid it all out like that, I've changed my mind. They were completely justified!" So the question becomes, what purpose does it serve? Learning? We know what a lot of mass shooters think. Who's being educated? Politics? If it's politics, then release them all.

The people who need to read it - law enforcement, the families, mental health professionals, etc. - will read it.

I see no purpose served in general public release. It'll just end up a football people start throwing around social media, and social media are too stupid to manage a Tuesday without commentary, much less issues like this.

WarGamer

(12,602 posts)
14. The Gov't should never hide anything from the public...
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 04:38 PM
Aug 2023

Absent some national security implications...

Memphis shooter manifesto should have been released. This cretins manifesto should be released also.

Government, State or Federal should NEVER be in the business of crafting social narrative.

Sympthsical

(9,238 posts)
18. Well, either way has to be uniform across the board
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 04:56 PM
Aug 2023

Or it will look like government is crafting narrative.

I see no value in it. We are not privy to every detail and piece of evidence of every crime. Most of the time we only ever see what is produced at trial. Government need only prove guilt. I think, in these cases, guilt is pretty established.

Think of various deaths around the country. Law enforcement has photos of all kinds of things. Do we need to see all that?

We do not. There is no value in it, IMO.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
7. My Thinking
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:14 PM
Aug 2023

I guess my thinking is yes and no. I'd really like to know if a manifesto was promoting stuff like "President Trump said xxx and he's right". I'd like the hate promoters exposed. But the other stuff like the irrational reasoning they're using wouldn't be good to disseminate.

Azathoth

(4,611 posts)
10. They should be made available. Not publicized or published.
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:35 PM
Aug 2023

The public have a right to see the evidence unless it is part of an active criminal prosecution. The government does not and should not have the right to arbitrarily conceal information simply to protect our delicate sensibilities.

With that said, making something available and splashing it across front pages and cable news channels and bookshelves are two different things. The info should be available to those who choose to seek it out, not offered up for tabloid ratings.

Think. Again.

(9,323 posts)
11. I agree with Azathoth...
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:47 PM
Aug 2023

...in reply#10.

I feel that any manifesto itself should be freely available to the public, but I don't think that means it would have to be published in any media.

Perhaps various Social Sciences educational institutions could add them to their publicly available collections to keep any official government responsibility out of it.

And of course, as public information, there should be no restrictions (or censorship) on whatever individual private media sources are allowed to publish as they see fit.

But again, they should not be forcibly published as the unabomber's was, unless there is some legit reason, like there was in the unabomber investigation.

Johnny2X2X

(19,420 posts)
12. I voted yes
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 03:49 PM
Aug 2023

I think it’s important for the public to know what hateful rhetoric leads to. There’s little doubt Thai scumbag had all the Rightwing talking points down.

William769

(55,244 posts)
15. I had to vote yes.
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 04:43 PM
Aug 2023

Free speach is free speech.

If you don't like what's being said, make the case against.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,608 posts)
20. The gunman wrote and shared his thoughts. That speech is already free; it does not need to be
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 05:06 PM
Aug 2023

published.

struggle4progress

(118,379 posts)
16. Why? So we get more murder-suicides by self-imagined geniuses
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 04:45 PM
Aug 2023

who believe that all the folk who read their crazy-ass ramblings will be inspired to start a race war?

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
24. Comprehend
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 11:03 PM
Aug 2023

I know these people are irrational. I guess it helps me understand WHY the did what they did. Its easy to blame one thing like racism, but I'd like to see the underlying cause. What motivated them. I'd like that motivation exposed.

An AP article about the shooting said this about his writing:

He texted his father during the shooting and told him to break into his room, Waters said. The father then found a suicide note, a will and the racist writings Waters described as “quite frankly, the diary of a madman.”

“He was just completely irrational,” Waters said. “But with irrational thoughts, he knew what he was doing. He was 100% lucid.”


What were the irrational thoughts and what encouraged them? For example, did he write he watched hours of Faux News and was afraid of White Replacement Theory? Did he write he was a supporter of "Good people on both sides" or quote Trump?

I guess I'm always curious. Whether it's the reason we exist or something menial.

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery each day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ... Don't stop to marvel.

Albert Einstein

canetoad

(17,245 posts)
22. No, because
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 05:32 PM
Aug 2023

They are usually self-absorbed, selfish, resentful and persecuted piles of BS. If they contain anything of interest I'd be happy for a responsible journalist to write a short summary.

ForgedCrank

(1,809 posts)
25. No, and
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 11:08 PM
Aug 2023

I'll go so far as to say it should be illegal to publish their names, photos, history, etc. Nothing should be known about them or anything.
On of the reasons this is still happening is that ill people want to be famous and go out shocking as many people as they can.
Take that away from them. Let them die or go to prison as a no-name, to be forgotten tomorrow.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
26. Kind of Agree
Sun Aug 27, 2023, 11:19 PM
Aug 2023

Reminds me of a Criminal Minds episode. "PLAIN SIGHT". In the episode a killer is finally cornered by Agent Gideon. He threatens to make him anonymous and loock him up as an unknown unless the guy releases a hostage. If he does he will make sure everyone knows his name. The guy is so obsessed with publicity he releases her.

https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/Franklin_Graney

Response to NowISeetheLight (Original post)

Dr. Strange

(25,934 posts)
30. I'd say no.
Mon Aug 28, 2023, 12:40 PM
Aug 2023

I can almost go either way, but I agree with Sympthsical that it needs to be consistent (since otherwise it looks like the government is deciding what we get to see).

But I lean against it because then it allows the writer to put in stupid things to distract us. (Like the Christchurch shooter talking about pewdiepie.)

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