allow me to define psyche eval

[mopinko]

i’m not talking about throwing him in a mental ward, never to see the light of day.
i’m talking about the baker act, 5150, a danger to themselves or others.
pretty much anyone can ask for anyone to get a psyche eval- family member, cop, neighbor. u call 911, and if the cops agree, you’re off. i kept hoping the kids wd realize it’s a good defense for them. lucky for tfg it wouldnt be some beat cop.
i see no reason y a judge cant ask for an eval on a plainly mad defendant.
that gets you 72 hrs in a locked ward. this isnt that dementia assessment. it’s serious.

mentally ill is only 1 possible finding. dementia and other ’senility’ also possible. after 3 days, if you arent threatening to kill ppl, they might let you go. they usually give you a choice at that point. ins will pay for 30 days if u agree. if u say no, but arent violent, or if u refuse meds, they’ll usually cut u loose. if u just cant take care of yourself, they’ll figure that out.

he didnt pass the dementia screening last time, he wont pass it now. if those records didnt get burned, they’re evidence if he pleads diminished capacity.nhis records at reed r full of evidence,
but regardless of who, if anyone, injects his brain health into the legal cases, it should b done. we rly shd not try an insane man, if we can help it.

and this is not about whether he is found guilty of crimes, or wiggles out. guilty but mentally ill is an actual thing.
cuz what i rly want the world to know is that he is guilty AND a madman. he’s up there w charlie manson.
cuz we’re gonna keep falling for charismatic autocrats til we know the signs, and stop falling for it.

re- this thread- https://du4.democraticunderground.com/100218298396

[Firestorm49]

1. Great post but I'd love to see the idiot in a straight jacket.

[MutantAndProud]

2. Still no.

Morally and ethically wrong to use it since you have admitted it is for political purposes and he has not demonstrated he is a threat. The police can also be paid off. So yeah… that’s flat out corruption.

[mopinko]

4. where did i admit that? it's not political. he's gonna get ppl killed.

he is very much a danger.

[MutantAndProud]

7. This is technically a political board

In theory it can be implied.

I offer no retraction of my statement. I also agree WhiskeyGrinder, shows poor form and a willingness to weaponize mental health against people who may or may not need treatment. The aggression typically used in these holds is not acceptable.

My sister, mother, and roommate actually tried to use it in me once last year for continuing to investigate their fraud and coercive control. It was a civil rights violation and I have the text exposing their planned usage of it. Don’t follow those steps.

It’s just more authoritarian bullshit which is basically what Trump and his crowd are trying to encourage, on the right and the left in response to make them easier targets. If you can’t see that then you’re not someone who needs to be making the calls.

[mopinko]

12. sorry, but your take is way off.

weaponize? as in pretend something is wrong when it isnt? yeah, this is not that. his brain is broken, call it what u want. ftr, i didnt call it mentally ill. he was always a psychopath, now he’s a demented psychopath. his brain just doesnt work.
how that isnt obvious to the whole planet, i will never know.

and frankly, i not sure it’s right to put such a person on trial, but he can have whatever he wants, i guess.
like the j6 guys who defended themselves.

[MutantAndProud]

15. Those are not medical diagnoses

It is the political system keeping him afloat. The medical system is not something they will allow to be utilized like that if he does not meet diagnostic criteria for holding. His choices are not healthy, but unless they arise out of a diagnosis severe enough to overcome the limits of the holding requirements plus the structural protections given to presidents and ex presidents then it simply won’t happen. It’s just a fantasy to pursue it.

[mopinko]

16. that explains y so many psychiatrists broke the 'goldwater rule', and came out publicly

to say he was a dangerous psychopath. plus his niece, mary.

[MutantAndProud]

21. Correct.

You are can have personality disorders and technically not be a threat. Psychopath and sociopath are actually shorthand for combinations of diagnoses such as antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder plus violence or organization of violence. So, them coming out and saying that wasn’t a violation of their oaths because they weren’t actually diagnosing him with anything.

[mopinko]

22. i dont care what they label him. his brain doesnt work.

yes, it’s always been twisted. but he’s threatening ppl, and violating judges orders.
it’s insane we’ve gotten this far, if u ask me.

[MutantAndProud]

23. It certainly has exposed the flaws in the system

He is a product of the flaws of his preceding generation and the mechanism utilizing him to their political advantage.

[mopinko]

25. his enablers all know it.

but they arent getting off the gravy train.

[MutantAndProud]

30. They do indeed.

And no, they are not getting off the trains. The wheel has been in motion for generations.

[mopinko]

32. funny, i see all kinds of train riders getting off and finally telling the truth.

[MutantAndProud]

33. Yes, it is happening more and more.

It was inevitable.

[Fiendish Thingy]

17. Threatening tweets don't justify a 72 hour hold

Although they could be cause for criminal or civil charges.

Why did you create a new OP and reference another OP on the same topic? Why not join the discussion of that OP?

[mopinko]

24. cuz i saw another thread on the same subject.

i think a threatening tweet when u r under a judges order not to threaten or intimidate witnesses or jurors is another matter.
esp when there is a case pending for inciting j6.

[Fiendish Thingy]

26. It could be cause for a penalty from the court, but not hospitalization

I used to write 72 holds as a part of my job, and Trump’s public behaviour does not meet the criteria for a hold in any way shape or form.

Why didn’t you just comment on the other thread?

[mopinko]

27. i did.

but this is a discussion board…

failure to obey a judges order, acting out and threatening ppl, isnt actionable?
he has gotten ppl threatened, harassed w his rhetoric. ppl have been killed acting on his grievances.
none of this is in isolation, but just cuz he’s gotten away w it so far doesnt mean he shd continue to,

and again- i am not talking about mental illness. i am talking about brain damage, coupled w dark triad dx. i’m not proclaiming that, qualified ppl have said that, including his niece.

sorry, but the court cases make a difference. the judges order makes a difference.
the fact that he still doesnt grok that he isnt the prez any more matters.

[Fiendish Thingy]

34. It's actionable through the court

But he’s not going to be hospitalized.

[mopinko]

35. i just want 72 hrs.

[Fiendish Thingy]

36. You're dreaming. Nt

[mopinko]

29. also, this is my umpteenth thread about his brain health.

esp after such a bad case of covid. i actually hate the term mental illness, as tho our brains r not in our body, and not affected by our bodies. there’s so much more to it than the dsm.

the label doesnt matter. his brain is broken. he’s incredibly dangerous. and likely to get worse as the walls close in.

[Chainfire]

3. Our only path to victory runs through the polling places.

[mopinko]

10. he cant just b defeated. he must b held accountable. he wont go away.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Weaponizing mental health is generally not a good move.

All it does is show you wish to treat Trump the way you believe mentally ill people should be treated.

[mopinko]

6. absolutely not. i want every dangerous maniac locked up. aint particular to him.

i’ve had to make that call. i have mentally ill family member. i’m well aware of how such powers have been abused. u have no idea what i think.
this isnt weaponizing, it’s raising awareness. ppl should know his brain is baked.

also, it’s not just him. there r such autocrats all over the world these days. we need to call them what they are- madmen.

[MutantAndProud]

8. It's not raising awareness.

It’s a callous exhibition of the flawed authoritarian impulse. See my above response.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Autocratic impulses, irrationalization, violent threats -- none of these are necessarily indicators

of mental illness. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Trump. Obsessing over his mental health and wanting to control him because of it because it's "easier" than the justice system is a terrible precedent to push for.

[mopinko]

11. i clearly state that not only mental health, but brain function is evaluated.

lots of ppl have been unjustly incarcerated. shd we tear down the prisons?
and yes, i am a tad obsessed w the fact that an obvious madman is running amok. i have been obsessed w the state if his brain since that dog and pony show dr feelgood put on. he flunked that test.

i honestly find it perfectly debatable what do to w dangerous ppl who seem to slip through the criminal justice system for like, all their lives. important to do so. his former assistant said after the studio 54 days, he was addled. drug and bad genes- not a good combo for the leader of the free world. it’s a travesty we got this far.

imho, the world will be a better place when the average person can see a psychopath and know what they r.
we need to stop finding them charming.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. .

lots of ppl have been unjustly incarcerated. shd we tear down the prisons?

lol check my sig line

and yes, i am a tad obsessed w the fact that an obvious madman is running amok. i have been obsessed w the state if his brain since that dog and pony show dr feelgood put on. he flunked that test.

"That test" was not to indicate whether he was "mad" or not.

imho, the world will be a better place when the average person can see a psychopath and know what they r.
we need to stop finding them charming.

"Psychopathy" is a carceral concept, as evidenced by your insistence that other people recognize it and use to act about Trump in a way you want them to.

[mopinko]

18. the test was for whether his brain still worked.

i dont care what u call it. he cant function. his brain is broken.
and lots of shrinks have risked their careers to call him the danger that he is.
ask mary trump what she thinks.

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. It's not going to happen - you are grasping at straws

[mopinko]

20. c'est le vie.

[Scrivener7]

14. Anyone can ask for it? Come on, Mary! Avenge your father!

[mopinko]

31. i did not say mental illness.

i hate the term. brain health is something very different. he doesnt seem to understand the judges orders.
is he actually capable? cuz half his admin has come out and said he cant b talked to.
if they had any sense of duty and honor, they’d have invoked 25a.

and yeah, since everything is broken, lets start turning over rocks.
and honestly, it isnt about locking him up. it’s about his followers.

[onenote]

37. Not following a judge's orders doesn't mean he doesn't understand them

And invoking the 25th amendment wouldn't have done squat since he would've sent a counter notice, and then it would have been up to the House and Senate to decide and it would require a 2/3 majority vote in each body, which had zero chance of happening. Of course, I suppose you could argue that anyone who supported him also has their "brain broken" and should be institutionalized for 72 hours while they are evaluated. That's a lot of evaluations.

[H2O Man]

38. People get frustrated.

I get it -- and I know that you do, too. The truth is that the defendent is a sociopath, in the actual definition. He has a number of the features within Cluster B personality disorders. While certainly not what could accurately be called either "mental illness" or "mental health," the idea of such an evaluation would be fruitless. They could be held to be a useful measure of "risk factors," of course, along with past behaviors. That is where I think they are of most value -- in the legal system. I am 100% confident that the prosecutors have a pretty good idea who they are dealing with. More than a few in the DOJ have read Dr. Bandy Lee's book "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump." I wouldn't be surprised if the judge is, at least, aware of it.

I agree with you. No hospital would take him. If he continues to violate the court's orders, I think that there will be consequences.